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this is probably my longest post ever, but please if you've the time, read it? i need every aspect of input i can get. this is why i came here in the first place, months ago now.
i decided to be brave. that, or i have SO much nyquil and tylenol PM in my system with little to no food that'll stay in, that my better judgement is impaired. but i'm tired of not touching the reason why i came here in the first place. and i need help with it. and if i was able to get this out in an email to mr. fresh breath of air in all our lungs (  ), then i should be able to do this.
this is somewhat sexually explicit (not in bad creepy ways--like assault, so don't worry!), but i've tempered it down. to save my fingers the effort since like, hahaha, i can barely type right now, i'm just pasting, but cutting some parts out that i was asked to keep off the board for personal reasons. i would appreciate any and all imput, both good and bad, positive and negative. however, you will not change my mind. i KNOW this is who i am. the problem is, i can't find anyone willing to accept that this is who i am.
posting this is the beginning of my liberation. some parts edited for privacy.
********************************************************
now, for this email .. i *kind* of know what you mean? are you trying to say that there are advantages to being a girl, over a guy? i know there is ... i will admit there's things i like about being a girl. i *like* being feminine. i'm not a butch sort of girl in the slightest, except i do skate, which is something most don't think or assume girls would do -- at least not to the extremes guys do, and i do. but ... but i don't know. i'm going to try and not get too graphic, because i don't know if that's right for us to talk about, or okay with you, hehehe. but you've shared secrets, and you seem willing to listen .... most others don't seem to be bothered. it's why i came to the board, initially, but now when i bring it up or touch on it, everyone avoids it..
when i've been with guys, and have had sex with them, it's fine at first. but then it starts to not be fine. because then i start to like ... god, how to explain this. step out of myself? and then step back IN to myself with the mindset of a perhaps somewhat-feminine gay male. and i look at the guy i am with differently. i notice things about him that girls don't usually pay attention to. the angles of hips, uhhh .... other more sexual things that girls either "hate" doing (or seeing), or won't do unless they get it back (oral -- and i actually haaate getting that, i feel icky, so you know, it works out).
at first, the guy is blown away (ehehehe, pun intended? ROFL i'm sorry). he is like, omg, a girl who will fall to her knees without losing her will, submission without the pathetic simpering aspect. oh, when was the last time a female did THIS? and it's ... awesome. except THEY don't know what *i* am really thinking and feeling when i do that.
but then it gets ... strange. because they are, obviously, still a straight guy. with no realisation that i'm doing to them what any gay guy would do, with the exception of one thing i'm not equipped for (so OMG, in season two when leda says to brian, plaintively, "ever been fucked by a dyke with a strap on?" and brian ACTUALLY says, "....is that an offer?" i about DIED laughing, and was like THAT would be the perfect guy). but at first, i can handle that. at least *i* am enjoying the sexual relationship, right? where before i really wasn't.
except it gets complicated. because gay guys will do things straight ones WON'T do. kiss their partner no matter .. WHERE their mouth has been, or what's been in it. things like that. the last guy i was with, to this extent ... uhm. i tried to rim him, knowing full well that mechanically, it is pleasurable for a guy, and he freaked. then a couple weeks later we were severely drunk and even more high, and i told him that i knew something he would die if he felt, that most guys of HIS caliber (nice way of saying straight), had noooo idea about. he was very, very interested. he was so interested he uh, could barely contain himself. i didn't have erm .... what leda had, HA! but i had fingers, and i started to do it, feeling like shit because i knew the only reason he allowed it to go on was because he was drunk. i thought it didn't make me any better than the guys that did what they did to me, but he was ENJOYING it, where i was not. i had never seen him come so hard.
except we split up the next day, when he sobered up and remembered what happened. "if i didn't know any better, like if i hadn't seen you physically, i'd swear you're a fucking faggot. or are you just some bitch who loves faggots?"
fucking asshole. so i said, "whatever. except good luck finding a girl EVER again in your pathetic, close-minded lifetime, who'll make you come five times in one night."
and i haven't seen him since. and this has happened to more mild degrees before that, and after him, but that was the worst.
i have wanted to post this story for ... a long time. so that people can see that no, i'm not just some younger version of like, debbie novotny, that this is ... it's permeated my mind. and i will never be happy, because a gay guy will obviously not sleep with a bisexual, misgendered female, but a straight guy cannot handle the emotional-mental whatever that comes of a girl doing things to him that begin to become obvious are not straight things.
so what do i do? suffer. did you know that **edited upon personal requests and respect** i fall for him more and more every day, and then realise we'll probably never really lay eyes on each other, and it doesn't matter that i am the way i am when it comes to physical relationships, because i'll probably never share it with him.
oh well. some of us are not meant to find 'someone,' especially those of us in the wrong body, or the wrong time. i can accept that, i just wish ... see, THIS is why i wish i was more like brian. because then it wouldn't BOTHER me that this is the way it will go for me.
my void does not want.
-- 2.13.61.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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There are almost as many different variations of the art of making love as there are people doing it.
I can see your dilema in that a str8 guy (which I believe doesnt exist) will be willing to be pleased in some of the more unorthodox methods of making love, he will undoubtedly refuse to admit he enjoyed it for fear of admitting he participated in a possibly "gay" act.
Well, much to his loss I say.
They will bitch and moan that they were drunk and taken advantage of all the while knowing in their hearts that they will desire with a vengence what they refusr to admit they want.
I think your attitudes toward making love are refreshing. The old addage about different strokes" definately applies here and I am sure there is a guy out there destined to be with you.
I have to admit the thought of a strap on is kind of intrigueing.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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What i meant in the above post when I said....
"a str8 guy (which I believe doesnt exist)"
What I mean is that I believe all males are gay.....
alot just seem to be in denial.....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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what's funny, as in funny-sad, is that if a guy was able to give in to that want in his heart with a vengeance, as you say ... he'd probably leave me and go find a guy, and then i'm screwed anyway. you know? because ultimately, though i could give the mechanics (because that's what i want to do, what i am comfortable with and like, given above post), i'm not male. i can stave and sculpt my body, and i can see it changing, and i was lucky not to wind up with 'birthing hips' and i'm small chested, but i'm not a guy.
hehe, strap ons. i've had conversations about 'packing' with a very good friend of mine, who wants to marry her girl. apparently in the lesbian community, they are either loved or hated. hated because they represent, OBVIOUSLY, the penis, and some lesbians hate that, because it represents a guy, blah blah. but on the other hand, the mechanics feel good and that can't be denied, if done right. and like how a guy knows what a guy wants (which can't all be true, since to reference original post again ... so do i, almost too much because it's scared most ex's away), a girl knows what a girl wants. they know how to penetrate AND apply pressure in the .. "right spot" instead of just ONLY penetration that guys seem to think is all that matters with a girl. so, i was told, they're not bad at all. in fact, my friend's girlfriend often walks around 'packing' just because she likes the feel of it.
ehehe. so yeah, i'm intrigued with them too. but the last girl i was with, well obviously i've posted here, we barely even kissed. i doubt she'd let THAT fly. and the one before that found it disgusting and 'if i wanted that i'd be with a guy.'
so i keep losing either way.
my void does not want.
-- 2.13.61.
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because i could really use help or advice with this.
my void does not want.
-- 2.13.61.
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because it's occured to me the value of "me" around this place. i said this last night to lenny, but then it also occured to me that other things are being responded to here, since i've posted this, so it's not that no one's around to read it.
it really stings. because i watch the whole world here flock to a post about having the bravery to buy a magazine, and yet i finally have the guts to explain the predicament i'm in, the reason i came here, and only one person had the decency to respond, when i flat out ASKED for responses, which i don't normally do. and marc, i appreciate that more than you know, especially now, so thank you, to just you and no one the hell else.
it's not about sex or the fact i need it, it's a damn malfunction that keeps me from having relationships that'll last, that are intimate on ALL levels. yeah, so it was a long and convoluted post, but i don't believe it was hard to read. i explained very clearly what my mind does.
i'm sorry if this is bitchy, it's only because i'm hurt. because i know for a FACT that someone here is not really who they say they are, as they confessed to me my second day around here, genderwise, and everyone flocks to THOSE posts when a cry for help goes out, too. maybe i should have done that. in fact, now i know i should have. there's patterns here, and i don't fit that pattern, and i easily could have, and then it'd be different, wouldn't it?
so thank you to the friends i have made, that seem to be more than fairweather friends. who don't ignore emails or posts. who are brave enough to scratch more than the surface with me. but i'm not stupid, to the rest of you. when i can get consistent email replies UNTIL i talk about more than just a show, how i/we feel about that show, and what we wish about that show, and then they flat out STOP; when i am sworn to on the phone and in very fleeting IMs that oh yes, we're still friends etc and then i'm ignored for a week straight; when i'm finally at my limit of having to hide a relationship with someone on this board FROM the board because it hurts to be some dirty fucking secret under the carpet; and then everything stated above, well ... it's not paranoia, it's logic.
i hate myself more than any of you realise, and i have little to no self worth at all. of course--i starve myself fucking rotten so one day i can better pretend i'm a damn guy. but i'm worth more than this. i'm worth more than no response to needing assistance, to being hidden, to superficial emails that end the second they go below the surface of anything. i'm a piece of shit, a mediocre skater, an ex-first-chair violinist who gave it up only because she felt she was too ugly to make such lovely music, but i'm at least SOMETHING. i deserve more than this.
so i'm out of here. it's been real, and it's been wonderful, and i appreciate the brazen few who actually give a damn. keep an eye out for some random teenaged male who may pop up in the days to come. you never know, that could be me. i'm an awfully damn good liar, anyway. it's too bad i'm too nice to use it to my advantage. maybe i should start.
for instance, believe that i don't care, right now. fall for the fact that oh no, i'm not REALLY hurt at the lack of input on this subject.
consider me a ghost. you all went years without me, without knowing me, without my crap. you may as well keep on going.
my void does not want.
-- 2.13.61.
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Heathyr... Don't go.
I'm sorry, I wanted to say something...
But I waited... God don't go!!!!
I always stay fucking quiet, fucking still!!!!
And only when it counts. don't go.
Please...
You'll find something good, it will turn into something good, it has to.
But God, don't go... Please...
You said when you'd die that you'd walk with me every day
And I'd start to cry and say please don't talk that way
With the blink of an eye the Lord came and asked you to meet
You went to a better place but He stole you away from me
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I agree, just give it time. Life has a way of fixing itself.
Remember, someone out there loves you,
Kevin
"Be excellent to each other, and, party on dudes"!
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smith
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On fire! |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 1095
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I'm sorry I talked about the dumb magazines and went on and on about QAF. I'm very sorry. I didn't reply cause I didn't know what to say. Sigh...I never do anything right.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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But don't take it that way. Some people are skiddish to answer about the hard situations for fear of being a bit out of their league with advice.
It doesn't mean we don't care. We do. Wait for the answers as they come.
Now I know I should prolly put this into an email but I just don't have the time (I am cooking up a storm with all burners aflame).
You need to begin by trying to be a little less hard on yourself. It is way to easy to hold all the problems and blame for things going wrong on yourself but that is not the way. I read about every word posted on this board. Sometimes I reply, sometimes I don't.... and sometimes I reply way too much... 
I like reading about you and I especially enjoy reading what stories you make available.
I know I am babbeling and I don't mean to so for that I am sorry.
Don't go... we all need you...
Huggs tight
Marc
Oh crud!!!! something is boiling over.....
cya
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13797
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OK, to sumamrise as best I can:
- You are a lady who is not necessarily happy with her gender, but does not wish for gender reassignment
- You enjoy the company of males and sex with males
- You enjoy the company of females and sex with females
- you are happy to show a male partner where hsi prostate is
- You find the concept of penetrating a guy anally highly arounsing
So, I may have missed something here. I just don't actually see anything unusual or to worry about.
What I see is something that took great bravery to write. Like, for me, when I first told someone that my idea of heaven is to be fucked anally until my eyes bulge. Made me feel weird. Looks like this made you fee weird, too. I felt, at first, somehow embarrassed, a little "unmanly". I'm guessing something different yet similar is how you feel.
If I skip done to your "I am now going" post.... I don't mind if you go, nor if you stay. Either of these will be what you need to do. And they may change over time. I simply want you to look at the fact that your long post is not easy for people to related to, so they took time to answer. The post from a lad buying a gay magazine? That we can all relate to. Yep, he was brave too. Only different bravery. It doesn't demean your post that peole gave him easy answers. It doesn't trivialise his post that yours is somehwat heavyweight.
Each person here is here in some sort of pain. Yours is 100%. His is 100%. 100% is 100%, and comparing them is impossible
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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No Message Body
"But he that hath the steerage of my course,
direct my sail."
-William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Act One, Scene IV
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Oh my....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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You have nothing whatever to be sorry for, smith. Not only were those postings NOT dumb (just the opposite in fact; they were, as always, most thought-provoking), they were also quite germane to the general topic of this message board. It's safe to say that just about all of us has a similar story to tell; and by sharing that account of your own experience here, you served to offer even further assurance to those who thought they were the only one to ever have such an experience that they are definitely not alone. Further, in all those 897 posts it says you've made here (and yes, I think I've read every single one of them!), I don't recall you ever (ever!) doing anything "wrong" at all (even your "frivolous" postings serve a positive purpose), so it should therefore follow that your track record in that regard away from here is on an equal par.
"Girl liminal", I'm very sorry for your predicament and wish I could offer you something in the way of the advice you seek. Unfortunately, like smith (and most of the rest of us here, I think it's safe to say), I lack the experience and expertise that I feel is quite necessary to do so. So I therefore don't think it was indifference that kept others from replying.
We do not remember days...we remember moments.
Cesare Pavese
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e
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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It is easy to see that you are in pain. It is hard to respond to the specifics of your story. You ask only what you should do. But it seems there is little choice. He has already left so even if you try to hold on and continue to fall more and more in love, you will be reaching for someone who isn't there. I don't know what I can actually say to that. I don't even know that you will be back to read this.
It took great courage to open up to us and I do know the feeling when you don't get the response that you desire. In your case it came after taking a big risk and I would imagine the disappoinment is greater because of it. But your post was long. It was thought provoking. It was difficult. Trying to respond to such a post means that those responding will have to deal with umpleasant emotions. It means that we my have to examine ourselves a bit. It means that we might feel things that we may rather not feel. Some of us may feel that we have nothing to offer. Some may feel that they are not qualified to answer.
I know it hurts when you think you've been ignored. I've been the invisible person my entire life. The person everyone knows, but no one notices. I come and go and no one seems to care. I'm the kind of guy that can be having a conversation with someone, antoher person can walk up, interrupt me in mid sentence, and gain the attention of the person I was speaking to, engage them in a conversation, and leave me as the odd man out. I know this doesn't really address your original post. I don't really know how to respond to that other than to acknowlege that you are in pain. But I can identify with the pain of feeling left out. I can also say that I've learned that getting up and walking away is not the answer. If you walk away, you are still the one who is left out, though now it is by your own choice. The only way to be included is to include yourself. Impose. Keep talking. Keep asking. Sometimes it takes a while, but persistence usually works. Sooner or later, someone will have an answer.
{{{HUGS}}}
Think good thoughts (even when you least want to),
e
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smith
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On fire! |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 1095
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{{{hugs}}} to you too, E. You're not at all invisible here, you know. I always read what you say and absorb your good thoughts. You're one of the strong voices on this MB.
smith
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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Thank god!
Cause I like guys too or maybe Im just in denial?????
maybe you're, maybe you're really straight but in denial, some would claim
u to be and obviously that's not true just like what you believe.
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e
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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I know I'm not really invisible, it just feels that way sometimes. In fact, one of the reason I know I;m not is because the last time I "disappeared" for a few days, you pointed out that I wasn't around. ::-)
{{HUGS}}
Think good thoughts,
e
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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Not everyone checks this message board every day, nor can a true heartfelt response be thought of in 17 hours. You want answers now, but none of us can really give you the answers, nor can we even help you find the answers you need in such a short time. If you wanted we could reply with fluff and hugs of support, but to give a response that actually means something, that takes time, that takes effort. Maybe some people cannot handle the task of putting in that much effort and maybe some of us will take a while before we can organise our thoughts well enough to give a response. Your post has been viewed 70 times, a certain magazine topic you mentioned has been viewed 87 times. I don't know how much the numbers have changed since you first felt like leaving, but it does go to show that people do care.
As for your original topic, well, so very few of us can understand the position you're in very well, simply because we've never been there... As much as I can try to understand it, to me the concept is alien, I can empathise, but that is all, really.
To me in an ideal Utopian society sex would be seperated into it's three functions, sex for reproduction, sex for pleasure and sex as an expression of love. Each would be able to be shown without needing to be part of one another (what a male thought pattern!). I could be deeply in love with a man and share sex with him, I could have sex with a female for the sake of having children and I would share sex with other people when I was was in the mood for an enjoyable experience, provided the situation was appropriate. Maybe this is a perverted idea of Utopia, but maybe in such a society more freedom could be experienced in sexual partners and gender would not be an issue, especially if it was just sex for pleasure (although, then again, you would probably want something more than that, too).
But we don't live in such a society, we live in one where people are a lot more closed-minded and have strong defined concepts of what sex is and should be. Some things will never be possible for some of us, during our lifetimes. You may never be able to enjoy the kind of relationship(s) you want, just as I may never be able to have children and a family with my future boyfriend/ husband/ whatever. Somethings are just a grim reality and as much as we can hope things will change, and try to change them ourselves they may just not happen.
Nonetheless, that doesn't mean there is no hope for you. I'm sure there are plenty of open minded straight guys, or bisexual guys, or gay guys that aren't willing to pursue a same sex relationship. There is probably an increasing number, too. It will be hard finding one, that is for certain, you can't exactly go up to them and ask if they want you to stimulate them anally, but it is possible, with time and through experience. Have you ever tried to pick up guys at a gay club? It may be something worth thinking about.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth and I hope it helped at least a little and didn't hurt at all... I feel drastically underqualified trying to give help, but I did my best... Just try and be happy, even thought it can be hard to do at times. Things may be looking bad now, but who knows what lies around the next corner...
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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you know what? i'm finally going to get this out. 
actually, nevermind. goodbye. 
Re: Don't go! 
I'm sorry... I don't wanna be alone, don't go please. 
Excellent answer... 
