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tim
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Really getting into it |
Location: UK, West of London in Ber...
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 842
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We went to bed. I was even in a pleasantly erotic mood. We'd had a chinese takeaway and a beer and had a pleasant evening. We have water by the beds, so I took 3 mugs up, patterened plastic mugs. I'd never paid attention before except that the handles are different sizes and they are hard to hold in one hand because of it. I often carry them up. One for each bed.
She Who Must Be Obeyed tends to leave the marital bed sometime in the night because I snore, so one goe sin to what is laughingly termed "The Guest Room".
"You've not done the water right!"
"I have a mug by each bed."
"The wrong mugs are by the wrong beds."
"I never knew a particualr mug had to be by a particual rbed."
"I always have this mug," pointing to a particular pattern.
I reorganised the mugs. Then I must have made my second mistake. No my third mistake. The first one was to imagine fondly that horizontal jogging might take place, inferior as str8 sex may be. I mentioned that I did not like being reprimanded at bedtime, and that she somehow always contrived to reprimand me at bedtime.
I didn't raise my voice until she told me I was "making a big thing out of nothing" and cut me short.
It's now twenty to one, and I am downstairs with the laptop. SWMBO is presumably in "The Guest Room" and either in tears or "unable to sleep" because she is "upset". I am unable to sleep because I am upset. I feel like turning the stero on full blast and playing something rivetting like ABBA.
You probably gathered that the romantic erotic mood has vanished. I think she knows when I am feeling like sex. We don't make love. We have sex. And she intuitively wrecks it
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trevor
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Really getting into it |
Registered: November 2002
Messages: 732
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Although it's usually HER that wants the sex and it does usually turn into love making, when I'm willing, so I guess I'm a bit better off than you. Hey, we could trade wives? 
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trevor
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Really getting into it |
Registered: November 2002
Messages: 732
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No Message Body
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I'll chance it, hope you don't mind.
Clicquez ici: http://www.nydailynews.com/2002-02-13/News_and_Views/City_Beat/a-141259.asp
Imagine paying for a transatlantic ticket and all you get for your money is some bad sex in an airplane toilet... (Hope I don't sound too trivial at a time like this, this is just a lame cheering-up attempt.  )
-Lenny
"But he that hath the steerage of my course,
direct my sail."
-William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Act One, Scene IV
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at other than bed-time? I mean talking about the difference between sex and making love thing.
Might be worth discussing over a nice dinner sometime, that sort of thing.
Sooo much can remain unsaid, for soo many years...and it all just builds up and up and up...
"Always forgive your enemies...nothing annoys them quite so much." Oscar Wilde
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tim
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Really getting into it |
Location: UK, West of London in Ber...
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 842
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We talk. What oyu have to understand is that it is all my fault, because I am totally to blame for everything that goes wrong between us.
We've talked over dinner, in the living room, in the car, in the kitchen. We've talked with and without yelling, with and without anger, with and without total resentment.
I am not attractive. Not to her. Being gay certainly doesn't help, though se syas that's ok. Being obsessed with John sure didn't help. That I am visiting a therapist doesn;t help, nor has it helped that she has visited the same therapist, because though she also needs a counsellor, that visit was for me, not for her.
She accuses me of wanting her to make me leave home, but I don't want to leave home. I have nowhere I want to be, no-one else I want to be with.
We (not she, we) suffered from PMS for 23 years. 14 days out of every 23 (yes that long and that short) have been murder. She has now had a hysterectomy and is beginning to return to the old status quo at times. Habit now, not hormones. At least we don't get the 14 day PMS duration.
Being like this with my best friend, for she IS my best friend, is intolerable. I cannot do this for the rest fo my life.
For her I am doing a lot. I am getting fit, losing the fat, getting muscles, taking control of my life.
But she has always mothered me and seems to resent mytaking control to the extet that any help I provide is criticised because it is wrong, or inadequate, or just plain not wanted.
Some days I am afraid to hear her voice, and duck as a reflex action because I fear being told yet again how inadequate I am.
Worse, when goaded I am aggressive. So far I've taken it out on plates. I even managed to smash one and cut my hand with it. Just smash them, not throw them. I have to run away form a row because I know I would hit. And by running away I also confirm to her what a shit I am because I should stay and talk.
And by taking control of my obsession I have removed the one place I used to hide. I no longer am the least attracted to John, nor want anything to do with him. I used to pretend I was in his arms, all safe like Chris and Nigel togetehr, and that he was looking after me. I could hide there and call his name and feel his arms around me, things I never ever felt in life from him. When I hurt I could run to my make believe world and feel his breath on my cheek. Not now. He is gone. Good riddance, too, in so many ways, because I was allowing my fantasy world to control my real world. But my hiding place is gone. And I miss THAT, although I do not and can not miss HIM.
This goes in cycles. It will improve. Though I have never had to face it without my fantasy refuge before. That refuge went of its own accord in September, and I forced it never to return in December.
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tim
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Really getting into it |
Location: UK, West of London in Ber...
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 842
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Looks OK to me.
HUGS. Itls ok. at these low points I just need friends around me. You are one of them
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You have proven yourself to be possibly the most decent and understanding person I've ever come to know (even if I do not know you very well yet).
It has been my honor and privilege to discover your website, it really has.
We all get angry and frustrated sometimes I think, hell, I should know. I won't say some silly thing like, "it will pass", etc, but I do wish you all the best and hope you sort things out.
Remind yourself and your wife of the things you share that matters to both of you, and concentrate on those. Maybe it will help...
-Lenny
"But he that hath the steerage of my course,
direct my sail."
-William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Act One, Scene IV
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tim
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Really getting into it |
Location: UK, West of London in Ber...
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 842
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HUGS. You are right, of course. it WILL pass, and I should do it. So I nearly did. Just before I could do so she asked me to "Smell this bottle of pasata." She is cooking meatballs. It is a garlic and onion flavoured ine that I bought by accident when she was in hospital and I was doing the shopping in a hurry.
She had already told me, in no uncertain terms, that she prefers plain pasata. In December she told me.
I tell her it smells of onion, garlic and tomato. She uses it sayinmg with a 'will you never gettinsg right' tone of voice "I prefer the plain one. I can add my own seasoning."
Yes, it's trivial. The row is nothing to do with pasata, nor water mugs, nor earlier how 'badly I drive' when I was jusyt cut up badly by someone and blew my horn, stamped on the brakes and swore at him.
The row is about something else. I can only guess what it is about, but it is not about pasata.
Maybe it's because I have 'betrayed her by being gay', but more likely it is because I will no longer be controlled by anybody else, ever, and whoever they are.
I wonder what we have and share that matters to both of us. At present it looks like a house, two cars (both rusty), some consumer goods. Our son has all but left home. He matters deseperately, but custody is an irrelevance to a 17 year old.
We used to fight and make up. And making up involved great sex. Almost violent sex. Not now. Now we snarl and dig trenches and launch raids to gain a yard of ground.
Lenny, you gave me a tremendous compliment. I can get things right for almost everyone except the people who are closest to me.
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tim
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Really getting into it |
Location: UK, West of London in Ber...
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 842
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gently fricassed with soy sauce it is said to be delicious!
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trevor
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Really getting into it |
Registered: November 2002
Messages: 732
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Glad to see that you're still keeping your sense of humor, Tim.
Now I have NEVER recommended any book to anyone and am terrible about self-help stuff, reading almost entirely for fun - burned out in college, I suppose. But, I do recommend the following which my wife coerced me into reading after only a year of trying. (preamble, disclaimer, mumble mumble)
The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman, Northfield Publishing. The preface has some excellent thoughts about being "in love" vs the acts of "real love", mostly basic and obvious, but good reminders of biology vs conscious giving at the very least.
The premise is that different people demonstrate and "see" love through different, basic, means: Words, Time, Gifts, Service, or Physical touch. The theory is that each of us communicates love (both giving and expecting) through primarily one of these "channels" and doesn't really appreciate "being loved" through another channel. So, if we can learn to "speak" our partner's "language", they will feel loved better. Further, few of us speak the same language as our partner, based on the qualities that attracted us to him/her, presumably.
For example, my wife's primary love language is Physical Touch. Not just sex, but a touch or hug whenever you walk past, a kiss for no reason, etc. This isn't necessarily most (horny) men's language, as one might guess.
My language is Acts of Service. (I believe) I do the majority of the housework as well as help my wife with all kinds of her own projects that I don't want to do. She doesn't really "see" my sacrifices of time and energy since it's not her language - she wants touch, which isn't normal for me. Given enough caresses, she does start to notice, though.
The book is written from a Christian perspective, presumably for a married couple, but that's mostly irrelevant if you ignore a few biblical quotes/examples. The psychology stands by itself for any dedicated couple past the infatuation phase, IMHO. I think our copies came from the local bible store.
Good luck, Tim. You are persistent and I know you'll find a way to make your best friend your lover again.
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Tim, I'll go out on a limb here and hope I don't sound like a pretentious, pompous ass (or act insensitively; this is probably something that is very important to you after all). Expressing myself in a foreign language is a bit risky when discussing topics such as this. Please give me the benefit of a doubt if I say something that upsets you, I only mean well...
Anyway, here it comes:
(Hold on to your hat! )
We like the image that people marry because of love. Ultimately however, the marriage should be a means to an end; a happy, comfortable life. It is not the end itself. If the feelings that the marriage is based on changes on either side, I'd say there is grounds to evaluate that marriage. Not neccessarily END it mind you, just giving it a fair look-over and see which - if any - changes needs to be made.
I know first-hand the consequences of a bad marriage. If you're really having a bad marriage, or if it's just a "thing" either/both of you are living through that will fix itself in one way or another, is of course something only you can decide.
We all hold the key to our destiny.
For some of us, like me, that key will only fit one lock. A most limited choice. I can hope, I can dream, but I cannot act.
Others may have more options open to them. I hope you are one of them!
What I'm trying to say by all this is, you not only have the OPTION of choosing. You HAVE to chose. If you do not, you will only cause misery to yourself and those that are dear to you. Identify that which is wrong, and do what you can to remedy it.
My adoptive father never chose, he just plodded along letting things be as they were, and both he and I had to suffer because of it. We still do.
So here I come with the cattle-prod. Make your choice, for yourself and your family. Please.
Wishing you all the best,
-Lenny
"But he that hath the steerage of my course,
direct my sail."
-William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Act One, Scene IV
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tim
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Really getting into it |
Location: UK, West of London in Ber...
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 842
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I either wish to, or have to, stay as I am. I have to and choose to try to make it better.
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tim
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Really getting into it |
Location: UK, West of London in Ber...
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 842
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I try all the time to speak her language. The dialect seems to alter. I will look for the book, without promising to read it
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...you can succeed.
Best of wishes,
-Lenny
"But he that hath the steerage of my course,
direct my sail."
-William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Act One, Scene IV
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trevor
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Really getting into it |
Registered: November 2002
Messages: 732
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Understood, believe me! It is a very easy read, concise, short chapters, just my speed. Lots on how to discover the dialect. If you're serious and can't find it, lemme know. Interested in David's take on this - hello?
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tim
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Really getting into it |
Location: UK, West of London in Ber...
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 842
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8pm I had to take our son back to school. SWMBO was tired, but suggested that more than milk and biscuits might be on offer 90 miles later.
So, 9:30pm I arrive home. The door is opened in a welcoming manner, and she says "You were quick" and scuttles back the TV. "This programme might be good, I want to watch it."
Of course, on the way home I had been planning a pleasantly erotic mood. I was getting there. Was "When does the programme end?"
"10:30."
Ok, an hour is an hour. Like all married men I do know that sex is not avaialbel often, so I am used to being made to wait.
10:30 comes.
And goes.
Another programme. Very interesting and absorbing. I am using the laptop and am bored shitless, but trying to arrange some stuff with friends online.
11:30 arrives. "Have you finished with that computer?"
Ah, my fault. The lateness is down to me. "I've been waiting for you to finish watching TV."
"Oh"
So we go to get ready for bed. Ah, nightdress on. And she grunts "I'm exhausted, and I have a bit of a headache and a sore throat."
"Hmm. When i got ionto the car you suggested more miht be on offer when I got home. Now you're tored, have a headache and a sore throat and it's half past eleven."
"Oh. We can do something now if you like." Not said in the most romantic way. My mood had evaporated an hour previously. "Anyway, I didn't relaise you'd want to go to bed as soon as you got home."
So, 11:30 until 12:15 we lay in bed, each trying to sleep. Of course, neither of us can sleep. 12:15 she announces "I'm going to the spare room, night-noght." And she fucks off to the spare fucking room.
Half an hour later, more, I am here on the laptop, trying to get sleepy. Oh, please note, if I should now have a wank, I will get asked why I wait until she leaves the bedroom befrore I do it. It isn't that she wants to be a part of it. She just wants to make sure I don't get any pleasure. Nor sleep.
I am finding her less and less physically and emotionally attractive as time passes. I wonder if any of you can spot why that might just possibly be, especially since she is beauutiful, and has a slim and fit body?
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trevor
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Really getting into it |
Registered: November 2002
Messages: 732
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No Message Body
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Hi...Gee, nice to have an opinion asked of me specially...hehe
Any of these self-help books is good if they give you new ideas or new angles about older ideas. My theory is "whatever works is the best way..."
There's another good book about understanding women...called, "You Just Don't Understand Me" (author, I forget...at my office again...sorry...) Pretty good book, tho.
"Always forgive your enemies...nothing annoys them quite so much." Oscar Wilde
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trevor
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Really getting into it |
Registered: November 2002
Messages: 732
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Yes, yes, but enough about sex . . . Seriously, thanks for your input.
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