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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Is male homosexuality inherited?
Is it nurture?
Does it arrive inexpliccably?
If inherited, surely it cannot be the male line?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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...But that would totally miss the point of your post! Wether it is or it isn't, I'm sure we're going to see all kinds of 'evidence' presented by scientists pointing both one way and the other in the future.
Now, after the human genome has been fully mapped out, I am certain this will be one of the areas researchers concentrate on (homosexuality is - as we all know ::-)::-)::-) - a defect *cough*), despite it is nor a disease, nor dangerous (other than to society ::-)::-)::-) ). I mean, why try to find a cure for rheumatism for example, when one could spend tons of resources finding out what makes people gay, and possibly offer a cure for it even before a baby is born?
Personally, I can well imagine the cause is at least partly genetic. I had gay tendencies long before puberty, long before I saw porn or anything like that. On the other hand, I had sex education at a very early age too (70s in Sweden was a rather liberal period I guess, and men had VERY ugly sideburns too), and I guess one could argue that made me curious and that I acted out that curiosity in the way that was most convenient for me - with other curious guys. That would have taught me that it doesn't matter which sex one has contact with, it is the contact itself that feels good, and the people who claim to be straight are merely irrationally prejudiced against same-sex contact.
EXCEPT, there are people here who have never had same-sex contact (or any kind of intimate contact whatsoever), and still desire same-sex contact. Thus, it seems it is not simply something we learn from experience...
So in the end, who the hell CAN say for sure?  )
Furthermore:
The most important question to me isn't really if homosexuality is genetic or not, but what the society will DO about it if it is found out to be that way? What if gene pre-screening will be able to tell in advance if a developing foetus will turn into a gay person, will that be grounds for abortion? Will gene therapy techniques be developed to 'correct the defect'?
Also, it would be interesting to hear the reactions of religions and the spokespersons thereof who condemn gay people, hehe. How could they honestly continue to call it a choice and a sin if it is determined to be genetic? On the other hand, when did facts and reason ever influence religious people? 
Hugs:
-L
"But he that hath the steerage of my course,
direct my sail."
-William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Act One, Scene IV
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ch.oo.lo
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Toe is in the water |
Location: Michigan, USA
Registered: August 2003
Messages: 49
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I think homosexuality is just a side effect of a set of inherited genes, probably a combination of both the mother's and father's. What these genes are/do, I have absolutely no clue. To me, that seems to be the most logical explanation as to why it has proliferated because otherwise, biologically, homosexuality makes absolutely no sense (no offense). Evolutionarily speaking, the "gay gene" (indicating only 1) would have been wiped out along time ago because it isn't exactly beneficial to the species as a whole, so the combination of "useful" genes with a slight side effect kind of makes sense.
Despite this not being the question, what about bisexuality? Supposedly hardly anyone is 100% gay or straight... so would that mean that some people get more or less of the combination? or does this disprove the combination theory? or is there just a bisexual gene(s)?
::shrugs:: Obviously, I have no clue what causes it... good question, timmy.
-Jeanne
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In my not so humble opinion, (Hey, at least I'm honeset!:-* )
It is something that is just there... Like a mystery,
something that can not be un-ravelled. I personally feel that some things can never be explained logicly, and maybe it is genetic, maybe something else...
Personally, I feel it's something that is part of life,
not a choice. Kind of like the seasons, they exist, maybe for no other reason than to exist. And about bi-sexuality, people are neither black nor white.
It's a part of life as well, I think. Most people I think are to some degree bi-sexual.
You said when you'd die that you'd walk with me every day
And I'd start to cry and say please don't talk that way
With the blink of an eye the Lord came and asked you to meet
You went to a better place but He stole you away from me
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Zambezi
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Toe is in the water |
Location: Various (!)
Registered: January 2004
Messages: 40
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My initial reaction was also "who cares"? but Lenny's post got me thinking. If it does turn about to be genetic, and therefore "curable" by way of prevention, it opens up a vertiable Pandora's Box. It is just one of the unexploded bombs that the onward march of "human progress" has dug up in our back yards.
I know that I was - to all intents and purposes - raised to be straight, but evidence so far suggests that I am probably not. So my initial reaction was to throw the nurture idea out of the window.. but then I thought a bit more. I was actually taught to love those around me and judge them only on the free choices they made, not on the ones they didn't. During my formative years, I regarded gender as one thing people didn't choose, so never really applied a gender distinction to those I loved. Maybe this aspect of my nurture DID open the door into a lifetime of homosexuality.
I am not a geneticist, or even much of a scientist these days, but I did a quick internet search for studies of homosexuality amongst identical twin brothers. The first page I opened (Bailey and Pillard, 1991) suggested that amongst gay men with identical (and therefore genetically similar) twin brothers 52 per cent of those brothers described themselves as gay. 22 percent of fraternal (that is, non-identical) twin brothers of gay men described themselves as gay as well. Amongst adoptive brothers, the occurence of gay brothers amongst gay men was 11 per cent - near enough the natural incidence amongst the population as makes little difference. A similar study two years later amongst lesbians found a similar spread, but with percentage point figures five or six per cent lower in each cohort.
To me, this suggests that genetics must play some role, but the evidence is hardly compelling - nearly half of gay identical twins do not have a gay brother.
I am also fairly convinced that some genetic pre-disposition can be overcome to a certain extent. I am naturally left-handed (which I have also discovered may be linked to sexual orientation too!), but was raised in a time and a place where writing with my right was, figuratively if not literally, beaten into me. This was "nurture" by misguided teachers, aided and abetted by other convenient aspects of social conditioning like can-openers and assualt rifles, all designed for right-handers.
Perhaps what really defines us is a combination of factors, each one pushing us to a greater or lesser extent one way or another along the sexual spectrum. Rather than trying to find out what factors those are, and their weightings, I personally would rather just celebrate the diversity and potential all those infinitessimal combinations promise, and celebrate each of us as an individual.
If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving isn't for you.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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In a nutshell....
God, in his infinate wisdom enjoys diversity.... Just look at all the shapes of birds and bugs and animals.... All the uniqueness in natures bounty....
We are as we were meant to be....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Good answers so far, it seems to me, and also some more good questions.
Actually, it isn't just homosexuality whose origins aren't clear...it's all sexuality. Nobody has yet figured out what causes the lot. The "official" answer dodges the bullet very well, as it was decided upon in a committee...hehe. "...the cause is likely a genetic predisposition which may or may not be activated by the environment."
Check out Dr. John Money at Johns Hopkins for some cutting edge work on sexuality, thru his work with other minorities, like people with both sets of sex organs, etc.
Harvey Milk (the assassinated San Francisco politician) once said in a TV debate that if sexuality were entirely environmental, everybody who went to Catholic parochial schools would want to be nuns...lol
For all geneticlly determined stuff, there has always been reason for it, even if we don't know the reasons. So I also agree with mMrc's comment about diversity being part of the Universal Plan.
I also am very nervous about research into "cures" for the genetic side...*shudders*
"Always forgive your enemies...nothing annoys them quite so much." Oscar Wilde
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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What I can't understand is why we as gay people always seem to find our predisposition to our sexual and personal inclinations under the microscope?
I have been thinking about this for a while now. About when it was that I had my first gayish thought. As near as I can put a finger on it it was when I was about 5 years old. I can remember the incident clearly with a cousin of about the same age.
Now it's often said that environment was a factor, but at 5 years old have I really had the chance to experience enough environment to slant my sexuality one way or the other? I don't think so.
As far back as I can remember, I have always been attracted to males. At absolutely every opportunity as I was growing I managed to have... liasons in one way or another/of one sort or another... with practically every boy I knew. One thing I was certain of at that age... ALL THE BOYS WANTED INTO THE GAME... and it took little more then a few words and a private place and the game was on.
As far as genetics.... Well I guess you can attribute whatever you want about the human condition to genitics.... Is liking pepperoni pizza a genetic trait? Is prefering cats to dogs a genitic trait?
See.... none of all that really matters.... The important thing is for us to be happy about who we are.... To walk the earth in the speck of time we are allowed with our heads up.... To be good, caring, productive members of our respective communities.
These are the things that are important....
These are the things we should be focusing on....
My head hurts.... I think I shall try to sleep....
Marc
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Steve
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Really getting into it |
Location: London, England
Registered: November 2006
Messages: 465
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I would like to make three points that I don't think have been mentioned in this discussion so far:-
1. There is no one answer: there could be several answers as to the origin of homosexual orientation - and all of them could be right. (In other words: maybe we should not be looking for just one sole etiology.)
2. One cause that has not been mentioned is that some forms of homosexual orientation might be caused by something untoward in the child-mother relationship in earliest infancy. (This is often, but not always, linked to an absentee father or a weak father and a dominating mother.) Whether the etiology is genetic or acquired has no practical implications, since two things are beyond argument: his orientation is something over which the subject has no control, and his orientation is fixed before the end of infancy - at the age of 6 at the very latest.
3. I think that in our discussions on this MB we should bear in mind one character trait that is often observed in many (but not all) gay people: we are passionate! Our sense of righteous indignation is easily aroused and when it is we tend to flare.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Well, I think it is just that some guys like outies.
As for passions and rightous indignations.... I JUST DONT SEE IT....
As I stomp my left foot, wearing my Joan Crawford, patent leather, come fuck me pumps, with a hand on hip, head thrown back with a swisshy turn and camply walk away!
LOL.... I just had to do that!!! LOL
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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It is who we are .... Most are not one way or another ... We just are.
But it is who we are, not a product of our enviroment. I did not have much of an enviroment at age 10.
Kevin
"Be excellent to each other, and, party on dudes"!
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Herdiaty, nature, nurture 
I was gonna say, "does it matter?"... (long rant-like post) 
