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Since this forum has such a wide range of age, experience, religion, sexuality, etc. I thought this might be a good place to seek some opinions.
I am involved with a little story about a young man (now fifteen in the tale) that was abused by his natural father and is now the foster child of a single gay man. The man is attempting to help the young man get past his previous treatment and learn what love really is. However, the boy have fallen in love with his foster father and wants all the usual that goes with that type of relationship. The foster father doesn't want any type of sexual relationship at this time because of the young man's age and maturity, but he does have those desires.
Enough background, now to the question. The young man is about to be declared a ward of the state and the foster father wants to adopt him. Due to his age the young man must consent to the adoption for it to occur. Should he or shouldn't he?
BTW, if you are interested in learning more, the story is "Donny" on Nifty Adult/Youth.
Hugs, Charlie
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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There is no generic answer to this.
A legal answer is that the young man may consent quiet happily, knowing true love. The adoptive father should resist his desires doubly because of the law and the young man's vulnerability.
A human answer is that the adoption and the love are different items. One is protective and the other is emotional. And that the thinsg they do, law notwithstanding, are private.
In reallife I have seen this happen. The youjnger perosn discovered love. Later he found he was not gay and the love remained but the physucal side did not. Each of the two men is content.
But each circumstance is unique. The legal answer should prevail.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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The answer lies within the regulations requarding guardianship as determined by the dept. of human services of the state in which the boy resides.
It is a matter of legal correctness not opinion.
Another issue would be to inquire as to whether a gay man would be allowed to foster a 15yo boy at all. I was always led to believe that only married couples were allowed to operate a foster home.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I have a friend (not the circumstance I mentioned above) in Chicago who adopted a rising teen boy as a single gay man.
Homosexuality was not brought up. If it had been the law where he lived them (I think Massachussetts) would not have allowed it. The question was asked "As a single man, why do you want a son?" The answer was "I want to be a parent. I do not want to be a spouse." A valid question and answer, since the man's orientation is not relevant, surely, to his ability to be a parent.
A single man may, after all, adopt a daughter, and he is "expected" to be heterosexual.
The issue is whether prurient interest would "see abuse"
The answer to that is that it is more popualr to see abuse when sexual orientation differs form the norm. And we gay men do differ from the norm.
In England gay men and women, single, or partnerships, may adopt and foster. It happens in practice as well as in theory. Our social welfare agencies usually care more about the kid than the orientation of the adopter/fosterer.
I realise this is a tanget from the original post.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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It feels strange. When I write, I want to write what *I* want to write, not what someone else feels I should write. This is also the crux of the matter, even though the age of consent issue may not be an issue (in Sweden, it is at 15), so a relationship might be legal, here at least.
A different issue is wether it is ethical, and that is mostly just a cultural thing. In some parts of the world, parents marry off children younger than that to people the child itself doesn't even know, maybe never met at all.
A 15-year-old should be capable of knowing wether the desire he feels is genuine or not, as much as anyone can, really. After all, even adults can be tricked and deceived into a physical relationship just all too easy from all the horror stories we read in the papers and such.
When it comes down to it though, at the core of the issue, it all boils down to the fact you're writing a story, and stories do not have to be like reality for any number of reasons, the biggest perhaps being that it IS a story. SO, you do what YOU want, okay?  Don't feel pressured writing your story to conform with reality and the views we have of how things should work here, unless that is the way you want it. And if that's the case, why did you ask us for advice in the first place? 
Take care, and good luck with the writing!
-L
"But he that hath the steerage of my course,
direct my sail."
-William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Act One, Scene IV
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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To a point i agree.... and disagree....
Of course it is the authors atory.... of course it will be written the way he wants....
But there also is a moral responsibility that is imbedded into all our writing.....
That being to give accurate information to the kids that might happen on the work.
It has nothing to do with the "gay" issue other than that as viewed by the authorities making the final decisions.
It is important to give a searching youth a path to follow.... in effect provide in the text the paper chase of an actual adoption procedure.
Talk to the people that know.. from both sides of the story.... do the research to make a good read a good and valuable lesson as well.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Political, social and "bite my tongue" moral climate of times past comes and goes like the tide....
What may have been possible years ago may not be still possible today.
It is better to check the facts both in real time and historical in order to paint a true picture of current possibilities reguarding adoption and fostering.
It has nothing to do with gay or str8... it has to do with what is possible and what is not.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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The state of Texas, where this story takes place, does not require couples as foster care givers. Only that the environment is stable, adequate housing and supervision can be provided on a 24-hour basis, and the foster parent pass a criminal backgound check. Adoption is allowed to single parents on a case by case basis as determined by the sitting family court judge. As of the current momont there is no statements about sexuality in The Texas Family Law Code.
I know this can be an emotional issue. I have seen tons of it in the courtroom as a child advocate. Luckily in this area the presiding family court judge is also the one who appoints child advocates and his total concern and direction is for the best interests of the child. I have noted he is very quick to remove custody but very slow and considered to remove parental rights.
Thank you both timmy and Marc.
Hugs, Charlie
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What arguments would you use to convince the young man to agree to the adoption? Decline the adoption?
I have my thoughts, but probably have not considered them all, especially since I am a little past fifteen. Ideas on anything such as security, safety, parental love, romantic love, possible incest conflicts, possible conflicts if Bush is (by some miracle) voted out and civil unions become the norm, etc.
Hugs, Charlie
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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For the sake of simplicity, i just want to say that i believe stories that incorporate intergenerational sexual encounters at any level are detremental and therefore should be avoided.
The Adult has a responsibility to maintain an atmosphere of safe harbouring.... not predation... irreguardless of who makes the first move.
If a boy seeks to make a move on the adult... it is the adults responsibility to steer the boy into a relationship which is appropriate to their stations as parent-child.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Ahhh.... Now I think I understand.
But then again i don't....
I said..... previously
"If a boy seeks to make a move on the adult... it is the adults responsibility to steer the boy into a relationship which is appropriate to their stations as parent-child."
I think David... I am saying in essence the same thing as you... without the leading edge....
It is after all Charlies story and I don't propose to write it for him.
As for what is and isn't rehashed at whatever level.... Lets just say that it will be mentioned as often as it needs to be.
And as long as there are those that would seek to bed a child it needs to be said.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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I think simply deferring to the legal aspects of this question is a 'cop out' and not worthy of real discussion. Recently Florida's courts upheld a law prohibiting gay adoption statewide, the first such state to do so. But friends, that does not make it right.
Ethics and law do not always go hand in hand. At one time in our nations history is was legal to own slaves, does that mean the ethics were valid for all those who owned them? No.
Also, it is built in our system of government to challenge laws to wich we disagree, moraly or otherwise. Citizens challenge those laws only by breaking them and taking it up in the courts. Dissent is a pure form of patriotism if we take John Adams example.
So back to the ethics.
The restraint of the father and the feelings of the boy are unique to themselves and must be taken on a case by case basis. We cannot sit in judgement of what they think and feel. Some supervision for a time is probably appropriate in all adoption cases, and should be exercised in this case.
Beyond that, if the man can be a good father to this boy and the boy wants a father, I say 'let it be'. *Kevin sings the last part in his best Paul McCartny impression*
Just my opinion,
Kevin
"Be excellent to each other, and, party on dudes"!
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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The Ethics.... or lack there of...
Since when are ethical principals dolled out in order to fit the circumstances?
It is not a matter of sitting in judgement.... it is a matter of protection... As no one can be assured of any outcome reguarding any sexual liason intergenerational or not.... (in this case exception is to the author) is it not better to opt for the side of protective mentoring rather than fostering and encouraging a childs passions.
As for legalities.... Isn't it better to teach a child that it is a good thing to live according to the law? Isn't that what parenting is all about? Isn't that what we as a society expect when allowing adoption?
Just a realistic opinion...
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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I guess I just wasn't getting my point across and was hoping to hear from some of the younger posters as to their thoughts from the young man's point of view given a few factors:
1. He is only little more than a year removed from severe sexual and physical abuse by his biological father.
2. He feels he is "in love" with his guardian.
3. He is very comfortable with considering his guardian as his father, but has attempted to reconcile those feelings with his romantic yearnings.
4. He is fifteen.
5. His sexual experience is the abuse, mutual masturbation with friends, and a single blow job received. He attempted anal sex with his guardian once while his guardian was asleep, but his guardian awoke and that was the end of that experience.
Please do not think that you are going to write the story for me. I already have made up my mind as to what will happen. What I am looking for here is an understanding of what his thought processes might be. Plus I think with the perspective of a fifty(or more) year old and maybe there is something so off the wall that only a young mind could come up with it.
But I am also interested in the other question. Can/should a youngish single gay male even contemplate adoption of a child under so called 'normal' circumstances? Not that I am contemplating that course of action, hehe. Just a thought that popped into my head while typing the above.
Hugs, Charlie
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Marc, about half of the comments in this thread are from you. You've made your point forcefully and repeatedly. We get it. Do you have some need for getting the last word in?
Others disagree, or don't feel as strongly. Can you leave it at that, please? Otherwise you come across as attempting to be the guardian of some absolute truth which brooks no disagreement at all, kind of like a fundamentalist church. I don't need another one of those trying to tell me what to think.
Too bad we all couldn't just stick to the questions asked...maybe then some of our younger members might have stuck their heads out and risked an answer.
Sorry Charlie, I'm done commenting on this thread. Feel free to email me with questions or comments if ya want. It's been too long a time, anyhow!
"Always forgive your enemies...nothing annoys them quite so much." Oscar Wilde
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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No David... I don't think you get it.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Ok.. From the boys perspective...
Emotions would tend to run high.... it is after all a huge decision for both the child and the adult....
Inwardly... both would struggle with all the pros and cone reguarding the advantages and anguishes associated with adoption....
The child would use a childs logic... which is based on his level of knowledge, experiences and understanding of the present situation... As such... the child may have trouble saying exactly what he means or feels... and this would be a point of frustration as well...
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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You know, the law is important. If we don't like it we can seek to change it, but we have consented to live by it. There are no shades of grey with the law.
We can talk about desirability or undesirability, certainly, but the law governs reality
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I'm not in the business of telling other authors what to do, 
Re: Request for opinions, please 
You win the kewpie, David!!! 
