|
|
tim
|
 |
Really getting into it |
Location: UK, West of London in Ber...
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 842
|
|
|
I would like something th be wholly clear about cliques and other matters. That I am aganst them, aganst armies, against battle lines being drawn and against all the things that I have been accused of by people elsewhere.
I don't particularly want to have a whole long set of threads over this, but, with courtesy, you are welcome to post, and, yes, to disagree fundamentally with me. The only thing I will enforce in the thread and on the board here is politeness. Impolite or intemperate messages to anyone will disappear whoever they come from and whatever the rest of their contents, whether I agree or disagree with the message I disagree automatically if it is worded unpleasantly.
I have things I believe in. These include the right to freedom of speech. That right ensures that I may criticise those with whom I disgaree. It also means I may seek to lobby those who have a different opinion in order to persuade them to change their minds. It does not mean that I may insult them or call their sanity into question as has happened to me elsewhere. It does mean that, when attacked I may defend myself. It even means that, where libelled, if I choose to, I may have recourse to the law.
We all have those rights. I support those rights, and I will argue in favour of a perosn's right to express an opinion which differs from my own. At the same time I may also choose to fight the expressed opinion.
What I do not support is the concept of "marshalling troops" against someone else, or against another group of other people. If anyone is "taking my side" over something, please think again. Please take your own side and discuss matters from your own standpoint. Equally, no-one needs "messages of support" if they are simply that, in the same way that no-one needs unpleasant messages.
A well considered discussion about the merits of an opinion is an excellent thing to see yes, even if it disgarees with someone else, as long as it is done with courtesy. Waving a "team flag" is tribal and makes a nonsense of everything most realistic people stand for.
I have, as you will see, succeeded recently in upsetting a number of people in other places. Under other circumstances I number those people as my friends. I am no longer sure if those upset number me among theirs, yet even that does not matter.
Strident voices are being raised, and old coals are being raked over by those who get joy from bringing up other hurts, older hurts. Bringing them up hurts those who were hurt by them originally. It would be well to remember that people get hurt by flack when old things are raised anywhere. Such things happen as verbal violence escalates seemingly out of control.
Given time this will die down of its own accord. The purpose of this message is to ask those of you who post here, and those who simply read here, to act peacefully and form no cliques. I want no "supporters club" and I doubt that others want one either.
What I want to do above all things is to presevre this place as one where one can express an opinion, even a controversial one, knowing that a peaceful discussion will take place.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
tim
|
|
Really getting into it |
Location: UK, West of London in Ber...
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 842
|
|
|
I have been known, you know, to act without cortesy. I am human. I have been extremely short and rude to people. I admit it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
trevor
|
|
Really getting into it |
Registered: November 2002
Messages: 732
|
|
|
I agree completely, and consider you my friend, not my captain. I respect you, but also some of those giving you grief, in spite of your/my/their shortcomings and mistakes, or maybe even partly because of them. I wouldn't be here and couldn't relate to you if you were godlike!
I guess I would respect you a bit more if I knew that the above was regret or apology for mistakes rather than a rationalization of them. Sorry if that's offensive, but from the tone I just can't tell. I also hope everyone (myself included) is learning from mistakes rather than repeating them.
Regardless, you have my best warm wishes and support as another imperfect human, just like me, friend Tim. I hope you've found some sunshine today.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
tim
|
|
Really getting into it |
Location: UK, West of London in Ber...
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 842
|
|
|
well, on re-reading it did not SAY sorry. In truth an apology per se is a challenge. I do not regret all my actions, I simply regret the times they have BEEN offensive. But not the times they have been misconstrued as offensive. A subtle but important distinction.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
brian
|
 |
Toe is in the water |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 60
|
|
|
well..i am not sure whether your messsage had anything to do with what i have posted somewhere else. If so (what I don't believe) it was not my intention. As i stated there, I did not write it to support you, I don't regard you as a friend, very simply because I don't know you. I wrote that one post because I felt that the behaviour of certain people was unaccaptable. That post hasn't been about friendships or no friendships to people, that post has simply been about the issue (replacing the characters with x, y and z.)
Up to now I think I have never said something because somebody else who I am friends with thinks that way. At least I don't think I have ever done that. And I definitely do not plan to start that now.
But then, this post might be futile (hey, does that word fit in?), I only wanted to say something...in defence maybe?
and about offending people...umm yeah. no comment *looking back at my history while talking to different people*
love,
brian
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I do not believe in agreeing with everyone all the time (except maybe my boss, nah not even him). I cannot grow and learn with exploring both sides of an argument. Although I think a better word is debate because argument has grown to have a negative connotation. But it must be done in a civilized, non-confrontational manner, or the risk is present that the point will not be heard nor considered.
Most of my friends love to disagree with me because I am usually not afraid to give my opinion. It also makes them open up more, and sometimes, even though I may agree with their opinion, I will take the other side just to have that side considered. So disagreement to me does not mean loss of friendship, but strengthening of the bond of mutual knowledge.
Just my thoughts.
Hugs, Charlie
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
tim
|
|
Really getting into it |
Location: UK, West of London in Ber...
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 842
|
|
|
In case anyone is misinterpreting this as aimed at them, no, it is not. It was a meandering set of thoughts.
|
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
|
] 
A Place of Safety
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
Re: Postscript 
From Controversy Comes Growth 
Now how did my email addy get screwed up??? 
