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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Me, I mean.
First it is a "given" that not everyone will get on with everyone else. Another "given" is that most of the people whop post here are damaged in some way, and find this place beneficial in trying to resolve that damage.
So, when I hear this: "as the number of email requesting my absesce far outnumber any interest in what I have to say, I would appreciate it if you could remove my last few postings. It seems it is better if I stay away." from someone, well I get angry.
"Let he who is blameless cast the first stone!" That was a good exhortation then and it remains a good one now. There is only one reason for a person to be asked to stay away. And, when that reason happens, I do the asking. Otherwise, please just recognise that not everyione here is as outgoing as you are, and, when someone writes something that upsets you, as my son says "Get over it!"
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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whoever it is NEEDS to stay. i'm not sure who, but i do know that i can understand this person's position, about not being a favorite (if i even ever was, i just know number of friends for me here dropped considerably), but maybe not able to find anywhere else on the 'net that he can go. so essentially, and really, this person is not alone. and needs to stay. i hope he'll stay.
my void does not want.
-- 2.13.61.
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... I would have thought by now that this very important, and germane, point would have filtered through to all of the Membership here at A Place of Safety, and not just a select few.
It was with considerable pleasure that I have noted Marc's return here, after his and mine often acrimonious locking of horns. His return is as it should be. Marc has so much to be able to share with our Membership, and it was truly a sad day when he felt it imperative that he withdraw.
Everyone here, whether they be of the active participants or of those lurking in the shadows as I now am, have great potential, through their presence here, to be able to contribute to their own well being, and that of all of us, but this cannot ever happen when some amongst us burden themselves with the apparent responsibility of deciding who is, and who is not, welcome.
I have *posted* less than half-a-dozen messages since the beginning of the year when I, like Marc, withdrew. I have religiously continued to read the Forum, keeping abreast of all its' "news". My general silence has been my choice, and I will continue in this regard for the foreseeable future; but I caution, that what works for me, may not be the solution for others.
As Timmy states "... most of the people who post here are damaged in some way, and find this place beneficial in trying to resolve that damage", myself included; but, no-one is going to be able to facilitate their recovery, or healing, should they feel beholden to remain silent regardless of the bone of contention, and it should never be the Membership, either individually, or collectively, that decides whether another's voice may be heard. That is a job best left in the hands of the board owner.
Warren C. E. Austin
The Gay Deceiver
Toronto, Canada
"... comme recherché qu'un délice callipygian"
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I don't think it is right ethically or otherwise to demand such a thing from anyone else. It is definitely not right to harass people via email to make them feel bad and go away, that's stuff bigots do.
If someone here annoys or upsets me, I ignore that person, I wish others could do the same. 
"But he that hath the steerage of my course,
direct my sail."
-William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Act One, Scene IV
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smith
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On fire! |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 1095
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There are some of the sweetest, nicest people in the world, literally, who post on this MB. I must not have made the acquaintance of these few who continually send these "I'm better than you are, so fuck off" mails. Believe me, I don't want to know them either.
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" We all know what that means and we know the context of the words. Sometimes, we just stop looking at a whole person and just see one aspect....an aspect that rattles our cage.
We've all been so upset with someone that we stop seeing them. We're satisfied that our opinion covers everything relevant to the subject...."He's so selfish"..."She's weird"..."He's prejudiced"..."She's insensitive"...and so on and so on. We all have buttons that can be pushed. We all have a bit of Pharisee in us. We think it and we stop looking at the whole person.........that person who is hurting.
If your life was perfect, total lalaland, would you be here reading what other people say, how other people feel? If you're like me, you're trying, in some small way, to look out for others. Let's not forget why we come here and let's try harder to be welcoming. I've been absolutely absent lately, not because of you but because of me. There isn't a shovel with a handle long enough to dig my way clear of the stuff around me right now but I still read every post and wish everyone well every day.
I always hated that rhyme..."Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me".......The hell they don't. Words can hurt just as much as a stick or a rock or a belt. You have a complaint about something, run it by the man that owns this site. I'd be willing to bet ya, he'll take care of it.........his way.
SSDD ~ smith
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sparks
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Toe is in the water |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 57
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Not once have I ever read a post that stated *marc we love you and care about you and we feel your pain*.Monitoring this board for more than three years I have witnessed so-called decent people tear others apart,leaving a clear-cut message (you are not one of us)..Timmy,the owner of this forum does not have clean hands.What I cannot understand is why has not Warren lambasted you people.The man whom I deeply respect has the gift to do so and this board so deeply needs a wake-up call.When the people on this forum begin to reach out and embrace Marc ,accept the man even with his many shortcommings,you people will have my respect.I will not even go into the treatment of rob who was a loyal poster,his opinions a bit acid,but you people judged him and condemned him to cyber exile.Shame shame sparks
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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.... Please grow up child(ren).
I love hearing different opinions, even if things get a little bit heated at times, even the most contentious of topics has some value. Not that I'm saying infighting is a good thing at all but I'm just trying to point out the value of differences of opinions, when dealt with maturely. Everyone has a right to be here, this is a Place of Safety for EVERYONE; not just those that are gay, not even just those that are male (although gay males are perhaps the primary target of the site). We might even rub each other the one way and hurt each other a little from time to time, but everyone still belongs here for as long as they want to be here for and everyone deserves as much love and support as we can give.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Like I said. "let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
No-one else has been accusative here except in general terms, yet you have chosen to do so. I do not seek justification from you of this. Doubtless oyuhave your reasons. I have never claimed to be faultless. I am reminded of something in your style of posts, though. And that reminder is not pleasant. I have been reminded of it for some time.
If this place turns again into a pit of foulness, and if my memory is being jogged correctly then I will be more than upset. I rather hope that the "sparks" in your name are those of genuine fun in your eyes, not that you chose to strike sparks off those whom you touch.
This thread was not created to create a fight, my friend, though you seem intent on creating one here. It was created for a totally different purpose. I am wholly disappointed.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Steve
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Really getting into it |
Location: London, England
Registered: November 2006
Messages: 465
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I do not know why you chose to relate Timmy's message to Marc, but I suppose you have your reasons. I, for one, have tried to reach out to Marc via e-mail, but each time, after a couple of exchanges, he has failed to respond. I don't know why: maybe he found me insufficient, maybe he found someone even more supportive. My point is that it is really unfair of you to suggest that no one has ever tried to reach out to Marc. And I am sure that I was not the only one.
I would have responded to your post privately, Sparks, but unfortunately your profile does not give an e-mail address. You can reach me at steve@iomfats.org.
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i have got ... a million things i'd like to say, but i don't know how and it's probably detrimental anyway...
but like everyone here seems to have the same good intention, and isn't that enough? yet everyone here i've seen like .. subliminals. and being that yeah, i've been on the "blackballed" end after being on the "loved" end, and still seem to sit in the former more than the latter, i can see both sides from my spot on the fence here. both sides meaning, i know how it feels; how this person (i assume marc because that's the name that comes up, and marc has been nothing but great to me every time i've had the chance to talk to him off the board, and i'd wish *i* could do something but there's only so much one can do if it's not taken, but i'd still try if the need arose, so there) must feel getting mails like that. hell, *I* have gotten mails like that. then i got the raised flag that my sanity or supposed lack-there-of was being tossed about, whether in jest or not, or twisted around in the classic 'message gets distorted when passed through more than one person' method, it still hurt being that i thought they were friends. so i know how it feels to be shunned, whether it's on purpose or TOTALLY unintentional, just people stop emailing you out of the blue for whatever reasons, maybe not harmful.
but i also know how frustrating it is to see this go on, because ultimately it seems like, and i know, that everyone is here for the same reason, everyone hurts in their own fashion, and most of us would not seek to blackball anyone, and don't WANT to and do not WANT anyone to leave. i know i don't want marc to leave. and i know i like everyone else just want this to stop. it makes me upset. i have no where else to go if not here, and if it goes all up in the air again, then what?
didn't we all get past this sort of thing in like junior high? i do NOT mean that as an insult, but come ON ... if not adults already, we are on the brink of such, or else should be beyond games like secretly emailing people and telling them they are not wanted or leave or you aren't in the "in" crowd so go away. i mean ... *please*. there's so much ELSE to talk about or worry about or discuss or joke about or ANYTHING but this. why does this have to KEEP happening.
my void does not want.
-- 2.13.61.
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sparks
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Toe is in the water |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 57
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sorry steve,it was grossly unfair of me to make those remarks and to direct those remarks at Timmy.Please accept my public apology. sparks
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... or at least my comments regarding him were not ... any more than it's about you, and your experiences here with those who arbitrarily had taken it upon themselves to decide that you were no-longer welcome here, or about the recent vicious attacks on our smith®, or Lord knows how many more there have been if Timmy's reply to my recent e-Mail is any indication.
I sincerely meant exactly what I said: "It was with considerable pleasure that I have noted Marc's return here, after his and mine often acrimonious locking of horns. His return is as it should be. Marc has so much to be able to share with our Membership, and it was truly a sad day when he felt it imperative that he withdraw."
Neither Marc, nor I, should have ever felt compelled to leave, especially in so public a manner as we both did. That he has chosen to again take part in the day-to-day ramblings of others here is testament to his strength. I admire his courage; I wish I too had it, but sadly find I do not, with my commenting recently only upon the affaires of this Board and it's management, or to solicit our Membership's aid on behalf of others here.
Whilst he and I are probably destined to never, ever, agree on anything, I could not, and would not, have wished for Marc leave-taking from a venue that I knew he had long considered to be his home; a place where he had found comfort and succour for his own personal brand of anguish, and an opportunity to impart upon others his wealth of knowledge and experience in realms that I have never experienced, and I'm certain as sure as God made shooting-sherry, few others here will have either; this aside from that being impudent, and most presumptuous of me, it would be downright criminal, albeit maybe not in Law, but, for a cert, morally because it would have deprived everyone here from having the ability to become acquainted with a most valuable worthy fellow human being.
Why there are those amongst us here who feel the necessity to flex their muscle, to validate their presence in attempting to usurp the board Owner's authority, to bully the weaker within our Membership into some sort of facile ready submission I do not know, nor do I suspect Timmy knows either.
I do know it makes me angry, and as we've seen it makes Timmy angry too, and apparently it angers a sufficient number of others as well, that maybe this time we can together rid ourselves of it's heinous presence.
What you have endured; what smith® has recently experienced; what Brian, Marc, Rob and a goodly number of others have suffered through must come to an end. My heart goes out to this scourge upon A Place Of Safety's most recent victim (whoever either he or she may be), asking only that they kindly remember the attendant consequences of the actions of these charlatans does pass with time. The true worth of the fellowship, understanding and compassion of "The House That Timmy Built" does, and will, prevail. It has for me, it has for you Heathr, as I'm sure it has for Brian and probably smith® too.
Warren C. E. Austin
The Gay Deceiver
Toronto, Canada
"... comme recherché qu'un délice callipygian"
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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A number of people have named alleged victims, or stated that they have been victims, of "get out of here" mail.
This thread is not about the victims, though without a victim there would not be a thread.
This thread is about people who flex their highschool muscles and chivvy or bully someone into leaving,. or feeling like leaving. It is about the perpetrators, not the victims.
I have named no victim. I will name no victim. And making assumptions about a victim who is not you hurts that person by accident, so let us desist from naming people.
Instead let us look at our own actions. "Did something I emailed someone say 'leave'?" if not then it was not oyu. If it was you, how will you change? Will you remain all pretty and pleasing in public while being a viper behind the scenes? Or will you stop bullying people?
I say it again. We are never going to agree with everyone else here. We are never even going to respect everyone else here. We are not going to like everyone else here. And they are not going to agree with, respect or like us sometimes, too. That part is life. "Get over it!"
And you know what? not every post each of us makes is well thought out, and is guaranteed not to offend someone. But that's ok, too, provided we read what we posted as if we were a stranger, and learn some each time.
We did have a rather unpleasant perosn here a while back who kept "marking posts out of ten" "Good post" he'd say. I am so not interested in some other fool taking that role on to allegedly encourage people. I'm interested in self assessement where we think we could have done better.
So, it's not about the victims. It's about the bullies. I have a firm message to the bullies, whoever you are, even if you are close to me [for i have no idea who you are from the perosn who wrote to me]. Shape up or ship out. As decent people you are welcome here. As backstabbing hypocritical bullies oyu are not.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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sparks
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Toe is in the water |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 57
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Warren,thanks so much for making my point in so better a way.I am not too good with words,But I know that I am going to defend marc as best I can.Us ol reprobates have been thru the grinder of life,there are still some hard edges,but we mean well.Some come here to this place of safety hurting and in pain.Unconditional love and a sense of family will work its wonders if we allow such to happen.With fondest regards and respect. sparks
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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This is not about Marc.
This is about those who bully.
This thread is not intended to make things personal.
Try as I might I seem unable to make you understand: this is not about the alleged victim. This is about schoolyard bullying behaviour. All you are doing is deflecting us from that path by insisting on a person's name be involved here.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Being a bully is all about control; it’s about abuse of trust; it’s all about depriving others their capability for self-determination; it’s all about mental and physical endangerment.
In a word, it’s about “criminal”, plain and simple
Make no mistake about that.
I ought to know: I have one in my own family. Through two wives, 30 years and more, a catalogue of collateral “victims” and a wasteland of despair and shattered self-esteem, my brother until recently stalked his prey with almost a Jekyll and Hyde dedication of purpose.
Like his father he is an alcoholic; an alcoholic who refuses treatment; an alcoholic who doesn’t see any problem with his behavior; an alcoholic who uses his drinking as a crutch to blind those around him to his intentions. You see, my brother sober, REALLY DOES WANT to behave badly; he wants to abuse, to deride, to subjugate those around him; in a word to be nasty.
Unfortunately, his, and mine own, upbringing, and the tenets of our moral and societal values will not allow that; consequently he drinks, figuring those around him will excuse his actions because of that drinking. He is, and was, right. We do, and have done, for far too long.
My greatest “personal” shame is that when his second wife, with two pre-teenaged young girls in tow, repeatedly asked for my help, and the help of our family, in coming to terms, and dealing, with my brother’s pattern of excesses, I turned her down. Yes, I would visit my brother, finding him hidden away in his garage, where he claimed he had been forced to secret himself away from the “shrew” he was married to; I would attempt to scertain if there really was a problem here; but, always I came away from these encounters with the “Hail fellow well met” image embedded in my mind that he wished to project, and I believed him. Why wouldn’t I? This was a man with more initials after his name in the fields of child psychology and behavioral sciences than Carter had those “little red pills”; here was a man whose lifetime had been spent nurturing developmentally, and near-developmentally handicapped, children in our educational system; here was a man who had forgotten more about how to teach the wayward amongst us than I suppose I had ever known in the first place. I did eventually come to understand what he was all about; but, it took my having to move into the building where he was then domiciled, at this juncture recently separated from his second wife and my having to resuscitate him three times in a period of not quite three months, aided and abetted by the begging of his 12- and 13-year old daughters that I move in with him and help take care of him.
Oh my, what an eye-opener this proved to be. I witness first-hand the true manifestation of his capability to bamboozle those around him. From a near-catatonic drunken stupor, he would at the sound of someone knocking at the door, arise from his position sprawled on the couch, with his jeans bunched around his knees, some disgusting vidéo displaying one manner of female depravity or another, to which he’d recently been diddling himself, splayed all over the television, and greet and meet whoever it was that came calling, leaving the caller none-the-wiser about my brother’s true condition. I had to have witnessed this for myself to have believed it, and with that understanding came my realization that my brother needn’t drink at all. He simply uses it to fuel his anger, directing his vicious, and downright vengeful thrusts, towards whoever might be handiest.
With this understanding came the “shame” I spoke earlier about, and my determination to see an end to his activities. This has not been easy, with myself last year nearly becoming another of his victims. In moving in with him, I ultimately lost everything I owned to his drunken excesses, with my repeatedly bailing him out financially, paying down months worth of rent to his landlord to stop what had become near-semiannual eviction proceedings, and thereby keep a roof over both his, and mine own, head; paying down his insurances, and other benefits to ensure some sort of nest-egg for his beneficiaries; retiring his debt, making it possible for him to live comfortably on his pension. I “work from home”, and his raging and near violent attacks upon me had taken their toll, with my having lost one too many contract due to my inability to control the environment of my workplace, contracts which had been supporting his ability to afford his lifestyle, and would ultimately be my salvation and ticket out of his home, and into one of my own making. I became suicidal, just as his second wife had once been, and where she had Renée and Lija, their two daughters, I had Max, Lucky and Samuel, my three dogs. They became my salvation; that and the compassion of all of the Membership here at A Place of Safety; coupled with the love and support of what would become my “extended family” at austinpalmer.com, and the two younger brothers that I acquired along the way. I now no-longer turn a blind-eye to his storying people with tales of his exploits hither and yon; yes we both hold commission in our Armed Forces, but no, neither of us has ever served abroad, certainly not Central or South America, nor Vietnam, nor anywhere else either he, or I, may have used tools of the trade that we may have acquired through our commissions. I cannot ever again countenance his validating himself, through his vicarious re-living the images of Apocalypse Now, the Deer Hunter, or untold number of other war-epics, or other timely sagas, whereby he bamboozles others into thinking he is something he is not, and never has been; the least amongst these being his own two daughters.
It is my most fervent wish that all here at A Place of Safety read this, and note well what I have written, otherwise my having laundered my family’s dirty linen in public will have been for nought. There is amongst us all here a bully, and POTENTIAL ABUSER, perhaps as Timmy says someone known and near and dear to us, but a bully none-the-less for it. He or she, whoever they may be, is criminally responsible for their behavior and should be taken to task for it. DO NOT MAKE the mistakes I have made, and make allowances for their activities. Route them out wherever you may find them, making them accountable for the damage they inflict upon those around them, especially the weakest within their field of influence.
Warren C. E. Austin
The Gay Deceiver
Toronto, Canada
"... comme recherché qu'un délice callipygian"
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I have read your pain and I see the nature of your brother. I see that he bullies and his bullying is abuse. I see the issues he causes.
Even so, all I want to happen here is that the people, for there is more than pone, who have been telling one or more other people to go just do one thing: change that behaviour.
A withchunt to find and expose them is not what I am about. That is as bad in its way as their behaviour. Yes, I will even give a bully a place to be safe. But not as a bully. As one altering their behaviour not to bully. That is a fair exchange for being here.
As I have said many times in many messages, all here are damaged in some way. That damage exhibits itself in behaviours that others object to from time to time. We go to great lengths to help those people rehabilitate. Some have even accused me of taking too long to exert authority. And yet a soul in torment has to have aplace where they can start to become less tormented.
That is the service we do to each other and for each other. We tolerate public behaviours that we dislike in order to help the harsh become gentle, and the meek become assertive. But the private behaviours, those which cannto be regulated: those must also turn from unpleasantness. In general such people mirror public and private. But, if the do not, then I am asking something very simple. Shape up or ship out. No song and dance. Just do it.
So: No withchunt. No routing out. No exposure. A simple mixture of humanity and the assertion that I do not find the behavious I have been told about acceptable at all. I also have said clearly that I do not find (in another portion of this thread, and form another poster) the major defence of an alleged victim to be acceptable either. It is up to the perpetrators to stop.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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... but I respectfully submit, that they should be identified, and that their identity MUST BE made know to the jurisdiction of competent authority, that, in this instance, being you Timmy, as board Owner and Moderator.
Rehabilitation is well and fine; I, too, am a greater supporter of that concept in principle; but, there does come a time when proactive, rather than remedial, action is called for.
Someone, or some group of individuals, have been preying upon our Membership here for far too long, targeting the weakest, the blameless, the most fragile amongst us, and wreaking havoc through their vituperative rhetoric, attempting to diminish likely candidates' sense of self-worth, and thereby destroy any opportunities we, collectively, may have had in aiding in their recovery from whatever it may be that ails them, and brought them to our door.
It is this activity, bullying if you will, that has to be routed out and summarily dealt with. Each of us on the receiving end of any such future behaviour as has been discussed in this thread must immediately come forward, TO YOU, not to anyone else, and provide you with the information needed to put an end to it as it happens.
NO WITCH HUNT, but no complacency on the part of the recipients either; nor of their silent leave-taking to be hidden once again amongst the shadows. That would be totally unacceptable, and downright criminal.
As smith® points out in his response, A Place of Safety is populated by "some of the sweetest, nicest, people in the World"; people who have exhibited a never-ending well-spring of compassion time and time again for those who seek shelter here.
A Place of Safety need to continue to be "A Place of Safety"; Lord knows these are in short supply.
Warren C. E. Austin
The Gay Deceiver
Toronto, Canada
"... comme recherché qu'un délice callipygian"
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I don't need to know who they are, nor does anyone who is not directly affected. You see, identifying them to me, unless as a last resort, is an awkward act for many people to undertake. I'm not askinganyone to undertake awkward acts.
All I am going to do is what I am doing. I am asking the perpetrators quietly, gently and publicly to cease their private actions, often undertaken "for the good of the community".
No compulsion. If anyone actually cares about the community they will realise that their actions run counter to that good. If they are here for another reason then perhaps they will slip silently away.
What so many people need to understand is that I actually don't care who they are. OK, that's a hard one to get. But I do not care who they are. I care only that they stop what they are doing. It really is that simple.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Just work on trying to be a good, supportive person to the best of your ability. Those that have been mean in emails know who they are, and should feel ashamed, because we're all brothers in spirit here (yes, even the girls, in a way  ), and we should be nice to our family.
Grud knows there's enough people out there who want to hurt us as it is!
"But he that hath the steerage of my course,
direct my sail."
-William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Act One, Scene IV
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i understand ... everyone's point here. and i mean everyone's. i, like most others, don't want to know who is The Bully and don't care to know. however, that's basically giving them cause to just keep going. i am all for rehab meaning and options, because god forbid i need it too. but i don't see it likely that anyone would stand up and say, "it's me, i'm sorry" and give me give smith give whoever else give EVERYONE in between it all or who got sucked into it or affected by it an apology for what's been done due to e-mail (and otherwise) harrassment. but i also agree, wholeheartedly, that a witchhunt would be detrimental too.
so, is it safe here, then? this thread, a very obvious "stop it or else." or else what? another thread like this will crop up and there's no confessions to be had? not where those of us who don't feel safe, haven't since coming back or the first slew of emails we had to deal with? who now see that it's happening to a nameless someone else, thereby proving that no, it's not safe here for ANYONE apparently? or just a select few?
this isn't to cast stones or force action, because again, i know how much damage smoking someone out can cause, believe me. plus then, their confession or apology would mean nothing, because it'd be forced, or because they were "found," and that's not all that great. but i mean... it's not ever going to stop--this much proves it. it just cycles. it stops for awhile and those who shied away or got chased off come back, carefully, and then it hits them again, or someone else.
so someone IM me or e-mail me when it's safe here again. as it is i only have like 3 friends left here anyway; 2 of which i got to talk to in messaging from time to time, or play games with, and one i barely catch on messenger but when i do it's alright. i lost all the rest. either because of mr. "i'm big and bad i'm going to rip you the fuck apart in emails now, cry and have a nice day!" spreading lies, or because someone thought they knew me and made assumptions that got twisted. but if it's the former, who still seems to be having a hayday on people around here, then no, this isn't a home i can stay at.
i start to wonder if it ever really was, for how quick i got cast aside by "brothers" and "family" and "best friends."
love & light & safety to you all.
my void does not want.
-- 2.13.61.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Oh Leander, it's safe as houses. You see it is online. No-one can actually harm you unless oyu open your mind to being harmed. So I am effectively IMing you now. It is safe.
When such a mail arrives DELETE it. Screw them.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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going by that logic, if it is just online, then that gives anyone the right to harrass who they may, doesn't it? as in, "it's just text boxes and mail programs or MBs, who cares who is on the other end who might get hurt." i mean it goes both ways, right? so that is your answer to ME; were you that cold (not that you are, it just comes off that way, could be my perception) when others who you are more friendly with were getting hurt? it's just online, delete it, screw them?
yeah, it's just online, but just online is where the majority of my friends/people i trust, are. so it's more than just online to me. so i guess that makes me open to get hurt, huh?
please, not trying to be snotty or smart, that truly perplexed me is all, perhaps i have it wrong.
my void does not want.
-- 2.13.61.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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It is neither cold nor warm and fuzzy. It's flat, and is as it should be. Please think deeply:
Only those you allow to hurt you online have the power to hurt you. They can do nothing "to" you except be unpleasant with words. Veyr much like trashing a spiteful chain letter, trashing spiteful comments is the only way of handling such a perosn.
By allowing them to feel they have the power to hurt you you allow bullies to "feel power". But reacting in a flat way removes that power. Itis very similar to saying "You can hit me if you like. It will just cause a brief moment of pain" and putting up with the pain. All except the sadist stops.
You must not mistake my pragmatic approach for lack of caring, nor for lack of concern, nor for lack of friendliness. It is no lack of any of these. It is purely pragmatic. You see other people are less strong than you, and take this stuff even more to heart than you do. Messages on a messageboard serve many purposes, not least of which is to talk to those people too.
I hope that answers, again in a very flat manner, your concerns. In a different thread I do not "need" to be flat, but this one is to serve as a shot across the bows of some people who have been making other people their business. It is time they stopped dooing that whoever they are.
Remember, Leander: "A very fine swan indeed."
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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sparks
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Toe is in the water |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 57
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Please forgive this question as I am not too computer bright.I assume that private e-mails seem to be the problem.Dont e-mails have an address of the sender attatched?Arnt e-mails tracable to source? To be quite frank,I somtimes am frightened to open some mail because of the virus threat.Two buttons on my keyboard have red nail polish on them.They are The STOP and DELETE buttons.I think Timmys right about one thing,we dont have to be victoms.Bullys are out there but we dont have to swim in their cesspool. sparks
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Bookmark it.....
Try..... And learn from it.....
The segment entitled.... "Walk Like A Man"
http://www.itl.tv
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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thanks for the clarification, & sorry for being dramatic, there.
my void does not want.
-- 2.13.61.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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There is never an issue with asking for clarification. You asked. Others who wanted to ask did not. Thus your personal question also asked the same for other people. Good call.
The rest of this post is addressed very generally yo all: The main thing with all of this trash is to turn it around. Just because some jerk says tbnings like "it would be better for the community if you went" does not mean it is right. All it means is that they have an opinion. But they got it wrong.
Apart from the one case where I had to insist that a person left, which is why the board is now "members only" in order that I may more easily identify imbeciles, we have extended extreme tolerance to individual foibles. We have extended what soe feel is "more than the hand of friendship" to some people and shown them that they are genuinely welcome. We have never cared about gender, physical or intellectual, about race, colour, creed, able-bodied or disabled, orientation, nor in so many cases when someone we thought of as a chap turns out to be a chappess. "We" have not. It is just some individuals who have.
And do you know what? That is ok unless they start the "it would be better if you left" routine.
So we turn the bullies around. Starve a fire of oxygen and it goes out. And oxygen to a bully is a reaction that they wanted to get (first) and any reaction (second). They can't cope with lack of reaction. And that effectively removes them whether they cease or not. Sure, they'll find another victim, but we show that person how to handle them and it stops.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Open the webfeed by clicking on "Watch ITL Now"
there choose the "Walk Like A Man" segment.
The other reports are good as well.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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The bullying that is going on in this instance is more than likely the more subtle, less intended bullying than what one may obviously notice. I don't think it is that people are deliberately trying to hurt people, instead they just do not realise how their words effect others nor do they realise that they aren't doing a good deed. I don't know the exact situation, but that is my 'feeling' on the issue.
Based on that, I'd say it is although possible that the bullies may still not even realise who they are. I think we should all look at our own behaviour for a moment and try and see if we are bullying anyone at all even without meaning it, or even if we consider it 'justified' or 'in retaliation' because no-one, not even the meanest of souls here deserves to be treated badly, that is not what this place is for. We are all hurting to some degree and that hurt can either make us sensitive to the abrasive comment of others, or cause us to make our own abrasive remarks. But at this place we need to try our best to just ignore things that may hurt us, because more often than not it is only because the other party is hurting, too. The best we can do is to all try our best to have a positive influence on this place, we might still say something that rubs someone else the wrong way, but as long as we are trying and we can try to be aware and see where we go wrong. I think that is all Timmy is asking for. Tolerance, patience, thoughtfulness. Everyone here deserves a chance, as hard as it can be at times, I think this is one place where turning the other cheek applies moreso than ever.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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... and there's nothing personal intended in that statement, either; nor, is it my intention to have this thread degrade into a catalogue of the excesses these sh*ts have been perpetrating on our friends.
Let's face it, receiving e-Mailed threats, or other advisory missives, that inform any Member here that they should quit the board or suffer the consequences is anything but NOT INTENDED.
I know. I received a handful of these, and more, in and around the time of Stephen's death early last year; this being only one such occasion; there have been numerous others. You would not believe the language, the sheer viciousness, the spiteful rhetoric, the baseness of the invective.
I shudder at the thought of what others here may have received in their own account.
There is nothing casual, or mistaken, about the threats Members here have been receiving.
Warren C. E. Austin
The Gay Deceiver
Toronto, Canada
"... comme recherché qu'un délice callipygian"
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Invective hurts. And threats, even those that cannto be carried out, hurt. But we each have the ability to choose not to allow the pain to touch us but maintaining a simple defence:
"Ah, a bully. Well that can't touch me" and press delete.
What I want is those who are doing this for sure (Sorry Saben, Warren is right in this instance) to stop doing this at all.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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ouch
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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... to the problems posed by the behaviour of a bully in the "real" World; let alone to that of a bully in the cyber one.
A bully in the school yard, on the street (or down the hall from) where you live, in your workplace, or within your own home, whatever, represents a very definite likelihood of physical (and mental) endangerment; whereas in the context of electronic Chartrooms, Forums, e-Mail, Gaming Parlours, et al, this same element of endangerment does not exist, although the potential for it does.
What to do?
Within the context of our environment here, this problem may really be small potatoes; but no less worrying for it. Taking my own experience, it has been costly, and not without it's own perils when attempting to counteract it. I had to close down an entire Domain, leave the media of the internet for more than 6-months, and seek out an ISP who would consider these threats as seriously as I had done. I returned only when satisfied that I had, in place, a mechanism whereby those choosing to threaten me harm, physical and otherwise, could be tracked down, routed out, and prosecuted to the full extend allowed under the Laws of my Host's country.
In addition, I now pre-screen, and filter, all incoming correspondence, with very narrowly defined criteria, which determine who has, and who does not have, access which includes my now using a series of "blind" e-mail addresses for most internet contacts, and never the publishing of any, where direct contact is possible; not at all unlike surround the castle with a moat, raising the draw-bridge, and manning the battlements and parapets.
Timmy, and I can't fault him here for his logic, says simply "to delete it", once gone no threat, no endangerment, no harm no foul; but, that still does not mitigate the frisson of terror implied by the threat in the first place, especially amongst the fragile, and as he so delicately puts it, "damaged", amongst us here.
Frankly, I'm not just a little alarumed at the paucity of response in general from our Membership at large. Yes, we've seen many - those most vocal - here speak out, expressing dismay, and concern; but, we've not really heard from OUR Membership. The page-views tell somewhat a different story. The many sitting in the shadows read, but their voice is not being heard.
I posit this: If you've been a victim of a sort, in the manner suggested by what has been discussed throughout this thread; this being regardless of whether you simply monitor this Forum, or actively participate in it; I ask you to contact the board Owner, Timmy, outlining your concerns, offering him if practicable, the circumstances surrounding the threat, and any remedial action you feel could have aided you in dealing with, not only the trauma associated with that threat, but to ensure it could not likely happen again.
Timmy needs to understand how widespread this problem is, especially as it respects his own undertaking here. Unless we all speak out, AND I'M SUGGESTING THIS BE DONE PRIVATELY, with us bringing an end to this thread, there can be no real resolution.
Rehabilitation, compassion, and yes forgiveness, are tenets I wholeheartedly subscribe to, with my having done so for the greater part of my life; but, we inhabit a World in upheaval, where "territorial prerogative" and "personal space" seem to have little value to much of it's denizens, with a complete lack of regard of all others and the values they may hold to be true, becoming the norm. As a society, we are increasingly needing to become pro-active, rather than defensive.
Warren C. E. Austin
The Gay Deceiver
Toronto, Canada
"... comme recherché qu'un délice callipygian"
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This makes me cranky 
Re: This is, after all is said and done, your "sand-box " ... 
Heathr, this is not about Marc ... 
Bullies are abusers! 
Shem, I have to wonder what planet you are living on ... 
