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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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How preytell does one deposit saliva into a bra from only a kiss?
I am sure he takes a firm grip of himself regularly, repetedly and with undaunted vigor.
As far as being alone with a child..... Well.....
It's probably better to be safe than sorry....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Many people have committed mistakes in their youth - big and small - and grown up to become well-adjusted citizens after 'taking a firm grip'...
A punishment should not continue in perpetuity as in this case, especially from a relatively mild crime. They should have a beginning, and an END.
"But he that hath the steerage of my course,
direct my sail."
-William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Act One, Scene IV
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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But who should the "end" be for? The criminal or the next child?
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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It's not the child that is the victim in this case and it never was.
We can't punish people for stuff they haven't committed, that's neither fair, reasonable nor even humane. Do you believe we're unchangeable as a person at the wee age of 15? I don't. So he did something that was wrong, that's not the same as he will continue to do wrong for the rest of his life.
"But he that hath the steerage of my course,
direct my sail."
-William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Act One, Scene IV
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Amen, Lenny. I agree that any criminal sentance should have an end. The major crimes for which a life sentance is warrented should be a short and focused list.
Marc and I have had this disagreement before...but try, people, to put yourself in the place of some boy condemned for the rest of his life for an offence committed at age 15. This is NOT justice.
But I love the line from the judge, Timmy...Man giggled when I explained the expression to him, too.
"Always forgive your enemies...nothing annoys them quite so much." Oscar Wilde
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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If they were both adults what would the sentence be? It is assault, but you have to think of it as pretty mild as far as assault goes, I don't really know a lot about what constitutes assault and the like and obviously saliva on the bra indicates SOMETHING happened but how consentual was it. I don't think the boy's treatment of children in general should be in question and it certainly doesn't necessarily mean that his behaviour towards the baby would be negative.
He is 17 now, he was 15 when it occurred, that is not a case of paedophilia so much as it is a case of a peer assaulting another peer (although the girl was younger the I believe age difference is not substantial enough for it to justify a law of consent violation). In at least two states in Australia we have a sliding age-of-consent similar to the one on Timmy's site and I think that is something that should be come universal.
Nonetheless assault is assault and he should be dealt with accordingly. I just think that the ages of the people involved are being thrown around too freely, as if it is a breach of age-of-consent (which maybe it IS from a rigid legal point of view). People need consequences for sure, but above punishment they need help to control their actions and urges.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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No Message Body
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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If you (or any others here) were the father of a young girl would you allow him to babysit?
Think hard here... on the one hand you may be a trusting in your belief that people can change... On the other hand you may be placing your child in grave danger...
Where is the right?
and where is the wrong?
Oh... and I am not trying to be combative on this topic... I just wanted to know
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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For totally different reasons I would not allow him to babysit! People get to babysit if they and I get on and I judge they are ok, no more and no less.
This was a kid who, according to the article, kissed and fondled a 12 year old girl. The girl objected to the kissing or to the fondling or to both. The boy persisted.
So far this is no different from any of our childhoods or our childhood friends' experiences.
What happened next is different. The girl objected sufficiently for the authorities to be involved. No-one who was not present actually knows what happened, so we rely on a newspaper article. It might have been a serious attempt at indecent assault, or it might have been two kids getting carried away with one later regretting it.
Addiitonally have you seen 12 year old girls recently? Where he lives they dress like hookers and act like hookers. They tend to act and look much older than 12. This one, of course, was a paragon of virtue, like all people in a court of law. He will have been there as a little angel too!
But he likes girls, and these girls are frankly within his age group. My wife is 4 years younger than me. The girl was 3 years younger than he was. He was 15 when this happened. Kids.
To restrain him against being alone with his yet-to-be-born infant child is ridiculous and society's vengeance gone wrong. Is he going to kiss a baby? Force himself on a baby? How is that baby going to feel when daddy has to run for help every time the baby wants him? Will social services forever be examining the baby's bodily orifices in case it's been abused and assaulted, thus assaulting it?
Jeez I just posted this because of the funny line at the bottom! What is it with everyone here that they want vengeance on everyone else?
[Updated on: Thu, 24 June 2004 07:07]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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It is not vengence that is placed on the table for discussion it is protection of the innocent.
There is a great deal of difference compromise involved in balancing ones (albeit potential) urges and the safety of a minor child.
You ask......
"Is he going to kiss a baby? Force himself on a baby? How is that baby going to feel when daddy has to run for help every time the baby wants him? Will social services forever be examining the baby's bodily orifices in case it's been abused and assaulted, thus assaulting it?"
Nobody knows if he is going to violate the child... no one can get that clearly into anothers mind.
No one can judge how the infant will feel as well.... I would suspect uncomfortably confused at best.
As for social services' examinations... I would suspect that this would become a reality on a regular basis.
After all... What is the more important issue here... The rights of an adult or the safety of a child...
If the adult feels ill at ease with the situation he is old enough to deal with it and get over it. The child on the other hand is illequipt to deal with an intoward advance.
As for your justification of the entire situation that due to the fact the girls in that area dress like whores, now that is also no excuse for a boy to continue an advance if asked to stop.
In other times, things of this nature would have been handled in the home. But these are times when I see parents out with leashes and proxcimity alarms on their children. These are times when on a daily basis there are reports of children disapearing or worse.
Not my rules... not my fault... but it is the world in which we live...
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Leashes and proximity alarms have been with us since 1992. They get popular every time an infant is abducted. the security iindustry pushes them cyncially.
Any psychologist wotrh being called a psychologist will tell you of the huge difference between an infant and a near adult in terms of sexual attraction. We are starting to go off to plough your old furrow of paedophilia and getting sidetracked here.
Of course he should have understood "no". Do we actually know anything at all about the case, though? Do we know she said "no" or do we see a newspaper report?
a 12 year old girl appears pretty much an adult, more often than not. they have breasts and curves and war paint, and attitude. He was 15 and she was 12. Both kids. And that is enough to get on the Sex Offenders Register? Lord knows.
But I put the damned story here for the last line!
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Why don't you just tell me to shut the hell up?
It's easier to take than having things thrown in ones face.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Because, quite simply, I do not mean that. I simply mean that a sense of proportion is necessary. And that it was put here for the last line. Like the title said when I posted it.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Re: But! 
