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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Recent threads have created some thoughts, but these have been around a person. I want to divorce this thread from any perosns here. If you can't do that please don't post in this thread, ok? We should be able to do this peacefully, and without hectoring anyone.
Let me set the scene. I want to discuss what may help an abused perosn. I want to assume that they were of legal age when abused, and that the abuse itself was the only thing "wrong" to happen. By this I mean this is not an age thing, not a legality thing about age of consent. Just the isolated fact of abuse. I am not even saying the abuse was sexual.
The questions that hit me include- Can the abuse be purged or ameliorated by the same act being performed with the consent of the abused perosn and done by someone who loves them, gently, and with love? [editted for clarity: I mean, for example the act that was performed being repeated but in a wholly non abusve manner. To be precise full permissions sought and gained and total care and love being given all the way.]
- Therapy is often advised. It it always helpful, or is it a panacea when "ordinary people" want to absolve themselves of responsibility?
- Must a therapist always be a qualified therapist, or can a decent friend be as much or more use?
- Is "bringing the abuser to justice" a helpful thing? if so, why? if not, why not?
There will be many other items here. What I don't want to happen unless anabused perosn is comfortable with revealing the abuse is that those who answer classify themselves into the "abused" and the "non abused". I would just like us to think, and to do this in isolation from any known examples.
[Updated on: Sun, 25 July 2004 15:32]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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1. Can the abuse be purged or ameliorated by the same act being performed with the consent of the abused perosn and done by someone who loves them, gently, and with love?
No
2. Therapy is often advised. It it always helpful, or is it a panacea when "ordinary people" want to absolve themselves of responsibility?
Most times it is helpful.
3. Must a therapist always be a qualified therapist, or can a decent friend be as much or more use?
Here, therapists are regulated and lisenced. There is a huge difference between being a friend with helpful advice and a therapist using his accademic training and practical experience to help a patient work through an untoward event in his/her life.
4. Is "bringing the abuser to justice" a helpful thing? if so, why? if not, why not?
It is not only helpful, it is paramount in order that he/she get not only their day in court but the therapy they need to reconsile their problems.
Here it is also illegal to know of someone that has perpertrated a crime and conceal that fact from the authorities. therapists are prohibited from revealing the names of wrondoers through the doctor patient priviledge of privacy... non therapists are not allowed that option.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I just talked to Marc and he understood something different in #1 from my intent.
I meant the act that was performed being repeated but in a wholly non abuisve manner. To be precise full permissions sought and gained and total care and love being given all the way.
I was envisaging (for example) a person penetrated against their will finding being penetrated an awful prospect. And that someone with love might (and this is the question) be able to help them overcome that awful feeling with love and kindness.
I am going to edit my question to clarify it.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Reanswer to #1. Some that know me know of my past. enuf said to that. But when I try to repeat the same act with the man I love with all my heart and soul I freeze up, go into panic mode, freak out and then the rest of the evening is spent putting things back in order. It is not for lack of trying, it is not for lack of caring, It's something in me that just won't leave. So we deal with whats good and fine and we leave the other to perhaps better times.
I hope this wasnt too cryptic.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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To me that holds out hope for the future. If it were possible to combine this, note I say "if", with a good and caring therapist, do you have any firther thoughts on this element? It does seem that you are attempting healing in the very best way at your disposal.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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There is always hope. I would, but therapy and such is not cheap and with no medical insurance it is beyond the scope of reality (for the moment).
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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I think "it" can be reversed as long as :
1. The person seeking to help themselves wants it, and trust the
person offering the help.
2. The person offering the help has to know when to stop. Maybe a
little today, a little further tomorrow, etc. (like me, I don't
like to be touched unless I want to be, but I'm getting better
about it slowly) He/She also has to remember that it is for the other
person, not for themselves even though it is out of love.
3. They both have to understand that this could end the relationship. The
one seeking help might not be able to look the other in the face after
a failed attempt. And vice versa, he may feel as a failure to provide
the support asked of him.
I believe it can work, but not all at once, slowly over a period of time, until the fear is gone.
This is just my humble opion though.
Brian
To love oneself is the beginning of a life-long romance.
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e
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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1. No. The abuse cannot be ameliorated or purged by finding a way to commit the act in a more loving fashion. However, a person can learn to enjoy the act after being abused.
2. Therapy is not always helpful. There are far too many variables. however, a good therapist is usually of benefit when the abused person WANTS therapy. Even a good therapist won't be of benefit most of the time to a person who doesn't want therapy.
3. If your definition of therapist is a person who is compensated for providing therapy, then yes, he must always be qualified. In most US states he must be licensed. However, a friend or relative can sometimes be of just as much help but more often they do not have enough understanding of the problem to be of benefit as a therapist. Such a person can be a very valuable adjunct to therapy by being loving and supportive. Some therapists enlist the help of family or friends and they can be included in part of the therapy with the consent of the client.
4. While bringing a perpetrator to justice can be very beneficial, it can also be very traumatic. In the US some states have laws to protect the victim and only necessary parts of the victim's past can be used in court by the defense. This is too help keep the defense from putting the victim on trial as a means of defending the perpetrator.
There really are no hard and fast answers to these questions as there are exceptions. But those many of those exceptions seem quite rare.
Think good thoughts,
e
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There is one other difference between a friend or relative helping an abuse victim and a therapist, and it lies in the nature of the relationship between a patient and a clinician. people who are otherwise involved in the life of the person who has suffered abuse have many other ties to that person. A therapist does not and indeed, must not in order to be effective. The nature of the therapeutic relationship is one in which the needs and desires of the therapist are completely (or as nearly as one can make it) absent. the relationship is entirely centered on the needs of the patient. This allows the therapist to deeply examine the patient's issues in a very clinical and objective way, without the impediment of having to wade through his/her own issues or to weigh the cost/benefit to him/herself on the way to seeing a path towards healing for the patient.
Granted, this is an ideal state of being in which to perform therapy for someone, but a good therapist can manage it. Sadly, there are a lot of people out there doing counselling who aren't very good at it, so choosing carefully and shopping around a good bit is important.
"I promise not to try not to fuck with your mind/ I promise not to mind if you go your way and i go mine/promise not to lie if i'm looking you right in your eye/promise not to try not to let you down."
--Eve6
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but let me try to answer the questions:
1.) at some point in a person's recovery, certainly this is a helpful thing. It is not a step to be undertaken in isolation or early in the person's treatment plan. the point of therapy is to restore full function to the person being treated, so at some point, whatever it was that was used against him/her is going to have to be restored to them, if the treatment is to be successful.
2.) therapy is indeed an abused person's best chance at healing. as e pointed out, the patient has to want the therapy, and the patient is going to need loads of support and validation from his/her friends and relatives...just because a person is not a counselor doesn't mean that one doesn't know how to listen and validate, hold and comfort, and wipe tears away. I would go so far as to say that often the quality of the abused person's support network determines the success level that the therapy is able to achieve.
3.) see my previous post.
4.) it's crucial on so many levels. as e pointed out, the abuser needs help. in addtion, the abuser needs to stop abusing. there's been enough abuse committed.
"I promise not to try not to fuck with your mind/ I promise not to mind if you go your way and i go mine/promise not to lie if i'm looking you right in your eye/promise not to try not to let you down."
--Eve6
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