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In case any of my friends wonder where I am for the next little while, I am going back to lurker mode.
Even when I try to avoid insults and self-absorbed judgemental harshness from Marc, I find my mood to be too powerfully affected by the negativity.
Whoever the substitute moderators are, I have had several comments of concern about the current situation sent to me. I simply advised them that I hope simply choosing not to read painful posts may make things easier for them. But hasn't anybody else noticed that our younger members are also mostly quiet once again? I dislike this state of affairs intensely.
Marc, I sincerely suggest that you look deep inside to that angry and critical place within and try to replace it with the genuine ability to see things from other peoples' point of view.
"Always forgive your enemies...nothing annoys them quite so much." Oscar Wilde
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I look at things from a legally proper view. Are you saying that following the law is wrong?
If my responces are painful for some people perhaps then the truth hurts!
As for your suggestions reguarding me and points of view I suggest you take your opinion and stick it .... Well you know what I am thinking I'm sure.
Have a nice day...
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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megaman
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Getting started |
Location: Germany
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 27
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Marc, For someone defending one pillar of modern society (the law) so much, you are tearing down another pillar quite often: manners. You cannot talk like that to people in every day life, but even if you do, you are expected to behave HERE.
No matter what opinions each of you have, you cannot make a big fuss about having your opinion and then tell other people "to take THEIR opinions and stick them"...
You are by far not the only person here, nor the most important, and you are neither center of the world nor of this message board. This is a truth too and perhaps this one also hurts.
I'm not Timmy, so my ways of dealing with things are different. I won't edit or delete this insult unless David asks me to. Instead I will leave it here on public display, maybe when you have cooled off you will see how misplaced your last remark was and for a change be a bit ashamed. Either way, everyone else here will see it with my comment. Yes this is like pulling a kid in front of class, but regrettably it seems necessary.
Bernd
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Now for an enlightment....
Read David's post and see if you can find a breach of maners?
I found several....
But lets just see if there is a double standard in your little megaworld...
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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Marc, it’s not the truth that hurts, it’s the way you tell the truth that it hurts.
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it's the difference between brutally honest and honestly brutal, eh?
"I promise not to try not to fuck with your mind/ I promise not to mind if you go your way and i go mine/promise not to lie if i'm looking you right in your eye/promise not to try not to let you down."
--Eve6
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I am horrified by what I read here. It is neither a point of law or one truth or the other that counts here.
Perhaps some people need reminding that this is supposed to be a place of safety and not one for attacking people.
Friendship, trust and love are what is required here, not bitter rows.
No one should feel they are forced to back away unless they are contemplating breaking these very simple rules. People can make mistakes, they be misguided occasionally, but it DOES NOT entitle anyone to launch an attack against them. A kindly nudge in redirecting a wrong thought maybe, but not this. I am shocked by this unkindness.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Once again I seem to have err'd..... I made the mistake of voicing my own opinion. I made the mistake of not conforming to the status quo and follow in line like a good little duck, thinking as I should, saying what is approved.
David, perhaps you should publish a set of answers to each question so I will be better able to think as you seem to deem I must.
It would be a help to me and a relief to others as well.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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We have several people "here" who decide to "leave" or "lurk" when things get silly.
What on earth is the point of "leaving"? Come to that, what is the ppoint of making all these public pronouncements? I am addressing this at not the author of the thread but at everyone who has ever done the "It's my ball and I'm taking it home" bit.
To be clear, it's my ball, and my backyard. Anyone who does not break simple rules is welcome to come and go as they please.
Those rules are really just simple kindness and consideration for others. What on earth is wrong with always trying to post that way?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Basicaly, kindness and consideration gets thrown to the wind when a post pointedly advocates the breaking of a law.
When the replies to a post show continual support and encouragement for a person or persons to break the law what then do you suggest?
To knowingly remain silent in such a case is as inappropriate as those that promote the unlawful deed.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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XXX wrote:
> Basicaly, kindness and consideration gets thrown to the wind when a post pointedly advocates the breaking of a law.
No, unless one makes an active decision to do so, and chooses to cause upset in a group of people
>
> When the replies to a post show continual support and encouragement for a person or persons to break the law what then do you suggest?
I suggest that one makes one's point well, gently and firmly, and with kindness
>
> To knowingly remain silent in such a case is as inappropriate as those that promote the unlawful deed.
So speak once and well. And then know that you have "done your bit".
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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so in other words..... give in to the vast number postings that promote the wrong.
It kind of makes me think you would have wanted Martin Luther King speak against civil rights only once. Then forever hold his tongue.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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At risk of breaking my own counsel to not only you but others of posting once and well, Martin Luther King and Civil Rights are not relevant here. This board is not about beating the heck out of other people even if one is right. It is about allowing people to express their opinios simply and well.
If one disagrees with them it behoves one to react well, properly (by which I mean within my rules) and then move on. It is not weight in numbers of opinion that matters here. It is that an opinion is expressed at all. The softer one speaks the louder one's message may be heard.
This is not a place about law enforcement. Advise them on the law, certainly, but it is starting to feel that the law is paramount and people's needs are not. Their respect for the law is their business, once advised of it and even when not advised of it. We should deal instead with their need to speak and to learn.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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True enough, this is not a place about "law enforcement"..... But at times it seems to be a place which advocates relationships that are not in sync with the law. In otherwords, unlawful.
If the needs of some "people" involve relationships with minors then that is fine... it is their business... But... as in any social circle there are subjects best left unspoken of at the table....
You may say that this is not a place where numbers have no sway in matters of discussion.... in reality that is just not the case....
As ever it boils down to those that are "in" and those that are "out"
Those that follow in line like good little ducks.... and those that are destined to oblivion because they dare to speak their minds.
Just my opinion...
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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There are many opinions here, not all of them in line with mine and not all in line with yours. All opinions are welcome unless and until they become strident (and there are so many ways of interpreting that word, not simply the dictionary definition)
Things are not "best left unsaid", but when oft said they lose their entire value.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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and when things are said that refer to illicit relationships?
What then?
Does this place remain a "place of safety" or evolve to a place of "many determined to do harm by advocating adult-boy relationships"?
There are things that are wrong... just plain wrong... When these same things are vervently advocated then there is something diametricaly askew with the values you "seem" to promote here.
Either it is a safe place or it is not... it can't be a "sometimes safe place"
You so valiently protect the proponents of "not of the norm" relationships... I hesitate to use the words 'boy lovers' but I feel I must qualify the fact that there are relationships not considered to be socially "the norm" yet perfectly acceptable between concenting adults.
What about the people hurt by them? What consideration is alloted to them other than telling them to not read here? How are these persons protected? Where is their "place of safety"?
I was just wondering...
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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What you have so often failed to see is that I protect just about everyone in the same way.
Regrettably you only notice it when that protection is given to those who disagree with you, but do not notice it when I protect those, including you, who hold a diferent view. If you would only look and see you may start to understand that I give tremendous freedoms to all people here to explore thoughts that they have. I only become somewhat exasperated when the same drum is beaten in the same manner sounding the same note so loudly that no-one else feels able to even think, let alone speak.
It's time to get with the program.
Those hurt by the unpleasant "man/boy love" people are welcome here. Those who participate in this are not welcome. The Rene Guyon Society and NAMBLA are each abhorrent.
Equally we are not speaking of men who have sex with pre-pubertal children here. We are speaking of young "embryo adults" who happen to be one side of a legal line with the partner they desire being the other side of it. We are speaking of a realatively small number of months in the thread you became so strident in, not a huge number of years. Not a "man perverting a boy" but two youths trying to decide what to do. Or one youth trying to understand what would happen if he went on a particular road.
And, should the younger come here, what then? he will see this man beating the "it's illegal so we cannot talk about it" drum loudly, for all like a Salvation Army teetotal advocate.
Every time you refer to the title of this place you misunderstand it. It is a safe place to talk. What people do in their time away from here is what they do in their time away from here.
We have already had one person telling people for some years not to come here. You seem to advocate that you become another. Now understand that this is no skin off my nose. You are welcome to do this if that is truly your opinion. But if you do so you will be doing it because of wilful misunderstanding.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I think I am begining to understand....
What you are saying when I am faced with the futility of a situation I should speak my piece and then move on? Is that correct?
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Assuming I am understanding you accurately and that you mean "move on" in an emotional and intellectual sense, then I think you have the comcpet I am trying both gently and determinedly to put to you as a modus vivendi.
To avoid doubt I am not saying "move on" in a physical way. I am not saying, for example, "leave here having said your piece".
I am also very definitely saying "Speak your piece well", by which I mean with care, thought, consideration for the total audience, lurking and posting alike, and especially with a strong regard for the feelings of the questioner if it is a question you respond to.
This is what I mean by "value of comments" versus "volume of comments". One person is one person, by the way, however often he or she speaks their piece, however different the phraseology.
Of course, if something that one has said is unclear, or one is questioned on it then calrification is much needed and answers are needed. Back again to "Speak your piece well" for the clarifications. The same holds good for a response to other items raised in a thread.
There is nothing controversial, nor opinion limiting in all this. One may express profound disgust at something effectiveley in velvet where a steel fist woudl simply cause comments to be ignored.
A relevant example is the topic that I think upsets you most. That of sexual encounters that are in any way abusive especially across the age of consent line. It is obvious that one can not condone this, since it is illegal, even if speciual circumstances may, or may seem to, make it intellectually desirable sometimes. One might say to the persons in need of counsel here "I do need to remind you that you cross a legal line if you have physical, and in some caszes cyber sexual realtions with the younger perosn, however much it seems desirbale to each of you."
When you were a kid you responded best, I suspect, to well delivered advice, even if you did not agree with it. I suspect you rejected people who directed you and cleaved to those who led you, even though the special circumstances of your own teenage years made this a very hard time for you to trust those older or in authority.
Again the place is intended to be safe for people to express opinions and thoughts. That is the sole safety on offer. All other safety is in the hands of the individuals who do whatever they choose in private or away from here. It is not, never was, and can never be, a sanctuary of any description. Such sanctuaries attract the very people that are the least desirable.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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These words you post here was in essence all I wanted to hear. I don't hold any malace toward any person here, visible or otherwise.
Reasonably, words are nothing more that images of thoughts and those images are as fleeting as the sweep of a second hand across the face of a clock.
Your previous assertments and declarations showed none of the heart you just demonstrated to me in this previous post.
I know what love is, I have known it well.... It can jade ones perceptions and judgment easily and motives can be easily read or even misread.
You never offended me, nor do I think you hate me...
What applies here is the fact that you don't know me nor I you. In such circumstances discourse looses the human factor and becomes mostly clinical in nature...
In other words, I can read your words but I can not feel your intent... and vice versa. Thus, as the humanity is less of a factor in discussions, misreading the intent becomes easier.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Re: David..... 
Pointless Decision 
