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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13801
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Now I opened thsi thread so we coudl READ what was happeening!
School showers and shaved pubes will be fun! How will that be handled, if you'll pardon the phrase?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Eothain
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Likes it here |
Location: Rohan!
Registered: April 2004
Messages: 108
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I don't intend to shower at school. Ever! In my three years at my school, I've only ever showered once and that after falling over and cutting my leg open and covering it in mud while playing basketball. So hopefully I'll be able to get away without showering for the time being. And even if I do shower, they're no longer the big communual showers but seperate cubicals so if I'm carefull enough, no-one will be the wiser! If they do see though, it might be a rather akward moment.
Anyhow, can I continue to use this thread for my delusional rantings? I'm certainly not looking foward to the sixth form. It all seems so strange and scary. I mean, we register in the sixth form centre apparently. With the rest of the year 12s and 13s! What about our form rooms? And the whole idea of doing only four subjects seems alien to me... Plus, tommorow I'll have to have breakfast, lunch and supper at school! What am I, a border? With my diet, that'll be horribly difficult... *sigh*
Oh well, whatever doesn't kill me can only make me stronger...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13801
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I only locked the other one coz, well it was hard to work with 
Ah you miss the real joys of showering with others. I loved that part!
You have a strange diet?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Eothain
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Likes it here |
Location: Rohan!
Registered: April 2004
Messages: 108
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I experienced plenty of the joys of showering with other boys while I was in year 7 and 8. It wasn't that bad really. 'Specially as only the year 7s generally covered themselves. Some of the year 5s did as well, and some of the year 8s...
And yeah, my diet is pretty strange... You may not believe this but I have a rare genetic disease which means I can't eat much protien. And most things contain quite a spot of protien. So I have bread and butter for breakfast. Some crackers and a chocolate moose for lunch and chips, onions and sweet corn for tea... Though that's only a recent thing... Before I'd have other stuff.
Oh, and when I was young(er), the NHS botched up so I got brain damage (as that's what happens if I have too much protien. That and death). Bloody annoying, to say the least.
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and i might add despite brain damage, which i must say doesn't seem to affect you much anymore, you still did better than a hell of a lot of people at GCSEs... go EOTHAIN!
Odi et amo: quare id faciam, fortasse requiris.
Nescio, set fieri sentio et excrucior
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Eothain
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Likes it here |
Location: Rohan!
Registered: April 2004
Messages: 108
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Well, I had a sixth form reception evening today. It wasn't too bad, but I keep on getting the feeling that I'm gonna become alienated from the lower years, just by the whole fact that the sixth form seem to be so seperate from the rest of the school (good for most people, not me). I sincerely don't want this to happen at all. Just because I can do work in my study instead of the libary, doesn't mean I will! Also, the fact that I'm only gonna be doing four subjects now, no longer doing such things as Maths and English and French (or German) and these are things that I've always done. It just seems such an alien concept to not be doing them as I've always done them. I've never not done Maths or English. And I have so many memories down the years from the various classes... I don't wanna be in the sixth form! *cries*
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blue
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Likes it here |
Registered: August 2004
Messages: 131
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Hi, I'm ~Blue. I'm pretty much a newbie to this forum. I've read most of the "Longing for a friend" thread, and, well, I feel I have some advice for you that might help, I hope.
I had an experience with a friend when I was 11, not like yours, but traumatic for me and for him, and both of us were partly to blame for it going wrong. I never told my parents what happened. I never told them when I realized I was gay. Instead, I hid in the proverbial closet. I finally came out to one person a few weeks ago, and I will be gradually coming out. It has lifted a *huge* weight from my shoulders. I'm not saying life is suddenly perfect. I have a lot to get used to. But it is much, much better and continuing to improve, bumpy road and all.
Eothain, what happened to you is affecting you. Shyness, longing for a connection with your past self in various ways, not going out much with your own age mates (as friends or dates), feeling down or anxious, not letting friends past a certain point (a wall or shell) -- those are all indicators you're having trouble with something.
I would urge you to seek counseling. Yes, it's embarrassing talking to others about something so private. But you need help to get through this, and online friends can only do so much. You need to get back the real you and have true, close friendships and love.
Are you close to your parents? Can't you talk to them about other things? If yes, then they probably know there's something bothering you, and they care about you, yes? Give them credit. Yes, they'll be shocked and saddened that their son had something happen. It may be very hard for them and for you to deal with. But if there is a chance they'll listen, it's better if you talk to them. I realize that admitting you were taken advantage of is hard. I even realize that it's doubly difficult because maybe not all those feelings were entirely unpleasant. (That does *not* mean you "wanted" or "deserved" to be mistreated! Never!)
*If* you are gay, have you told them? Again, if there's a chance they'll listen, you're probably better off telling them now than later. I realize that not everyone accepts being gay.
Talk to your best friends. Tell them as much as you feel safe telling them. If they are really your friends, they will understand and they will help you through this.
You have to reach out to others for help, both in dealing with this from your past, and in forming new relationships (friends and loves). You deserve that goodness for yourself. You have good years ahead of you.
It took a long time for me to realize those same things about myself. Getting counseling and talking to the people you care about is not as hard as it sounds. It's actually a relief. Not everyone will understand or accept your news, but the ones who do will make up for the ones who don't.
~Blue
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13801
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I wonder if it will help you and Eothain if you are able to describe, probabaly privately to him, what happened toyou? We all have unusual childhood experiences, and sometimes they prey on our minds.
I agree with the concept of parental chats about the incident and about counselling thereafter. I also know a world class counsellor about 2 miles from his home.
The longing for the past is understandable, as is the concept of friendship wth younger kids. The issue with the latter is that he is at an age where society will start to misunderstand his motivation. What is honest and open for him can be interpreted as sneaky and underhand by society.
To be fair many of us mentor younger kids. One way of doing it formally is, for example, scouting, or a similar organisation. Lest anyone misunderstand me I am talking of happy, open, honest, non-sexual relationships here.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Eothain
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Likes it here |
Location: Rohan!
Registered: April 2004
Messages: 108
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Blue, you're absolutely right... I know I should go and seek councilling and perhaps tell my parents. But for the latter, I couldn't tell them anything like that... Not that. It would be horrible... As for councilling, I'd be reluctant too. Telling a stranger such personal things, I certainly couldn't do that... It's different on the internet... I have time to think, and I can deleate stuff and change stuff which I say... As for friends, I have none which I can talk to about this sort of stuff or anything like that... I tried once but he's not really anyone I could turn too... But I do wish I could have someone who cares and listens and doesn't judge, someone like you lot, whom I could talk to and they could pat me on the back and say everything's gonna be alright. Or maybe even hug me... Ah well... Also, sixth formers do get to be mentors to lower years, but I'm not sure who gets to be one whether it's volunteer or chosen... If the latter, then knowing my luck I wouldn't be chosen. They never made me a prefect at my old bloody school... Or a captain (but to be fair captains were only captains of sport or captains of dorms and I'm neither a good sportsman or a border)
Anyhow, today was our induction day... In the speech by the hardmaster, as well as telling us not to slack, he also said to not distance yourself from the younger years and to kinda get to know them or whatever, so perhaps I won't be alienated from them this year... But at 4pm the borders from year 7 to 11 started arriving. And Steve's a border... I didn't see him arrive but I certainly saw him at supper. And kinda walked passed him... He didn't even say anything, or in any way acknowledge my pressense at all. Yet when I saw him, I still felt the same way about him... and I got various feelings. Mainly sadness and anger. Sadness that he's so distant and far away, and anger of myself for feeling this way about him. I mean why?! WHY THE ****ING HELL DO I HAVE TO FEEL THIS WAY ABOUT HIM!? WHY MUST I BE TORMENTED CONSTANTLY BY MY FEELINGS?! Oh, sorry about that. Don't know what came over me there... Didn't mean to shout or swear...
*sigh* My life is so FUBAR...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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As I believe, you seek a completly platonic relationship with this younger school mate.... Am I correct in this assessment?
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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blue
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Likes it here |
Registered: August 2004
Messages: 131
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Eothain,
First off, you don't have to apologize for cussing (swearing) or shouting. There's very little I haven't heard. Most people are at least slightly FUBAR. The problem is the ones who won't admit it.
I'm 38 and American, just so you know. When I said I never told my parents, I meant never; they're deceased, a few years ago.
Second, your feelings for Steve are a lot of confusing things all melted together. You're questioning your own motives, your own feelings. Timmy's and aj's advice on this is good. Here are a couple of other things for you to consider:
1. You won't do something you consider wrong; you wouldn't let yourself. Yes, you might be tempted. Yes, you might make a mistake. But it's clear you have some definite ideas of what's right and wrong. Give yourself a little credit, OK?
2. Has it occurred to you that maybe you are looking to protect and befriend your younger self, in a symbolic way? See, maybe you just want to make right for yourself what turned out so wrong. Maybe you have trouble getting close to people, past a certain point? Could it be you're afraid they'll learn the truth and think less of you? Again, don't be so hard on yourself.
I don't quite know the British school system, but I'm pretty sure those leadership positions are appointed. It isn't necessary that one be the absolute best at academics or sports to be a good leader and someone others can talk to. And even if you're not chosen, you can still be a good friend to talk to, someone to help with schoolwork or advice.
-----
I understand just what you mean about talking to someone, anyone, about what happened. What would my friends, my family, or my parents, or my church think, about something like that...with a boy?! -- Yes, it's scary. -- Notice that I said you should tell *what you felt comfortable telling,* not necessarily everything, nor all at once, nor to everyone you care about. -- Trust me, if it's scary now, it's much scarier later.
I still think you should talk to a counselor, and you really ought to consider talking to a parent or close relative you can trust. I understand you may not feel close enough to any friend to talk it over with them.
Eothain, it's clear this is tearing you up inside. It's also clear you are smart and you have standards and morals. You *can* get help and you *can* work through this to be the better you that you want to be. Don't give up on yourself or on life. Please.
-----
If you want, I can talk to you privately, via e-mail or IM, and you're welcome to e-mail or IM me. It might help you to know what I've been through and to talk to me about yourself and your past. Even if you don't feel comfortable with that, that's alright...as long as you eventually talk to someone.
~Blue
{ The English longbow truly is something to be proud of. It led to technological and social changes in medieval English society, and was one factor that led to increasing steps toward English democracy before other European countries. }
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blue
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Likes it here |
Registered: August 2004
Messages: 131
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Please don't bother him about that. He's clearly said he only wants to be friends, and the idea of anything else has him scared, if you'd notice. Perhaps even the idea of anything sexual with ~anyone~ scares him. So please lay off, would you?
I'm not trying to start an argument with you either, I'm just saying, give him a bit of space to breathe. There's nothing that says "inevitable doom" here. Peace, alright?
~Blue
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13801
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Marc is right to ask, of course, and you are right to mention your concerns.
If I may suggest here that Eothain has seen a great deal of discussion here about under age relationships and has the wisdom to determine the necessity of a platonic relationship, perhaps we could close that part of the advice we give him? He is just not looking at these youthful boys in a sexual manner. Instead it is wistful and longing to regain that alleged carefree time of youth for himself. Several people here feelthe same, and look in a totally non sexual way at young kids with a longing to regain a safe period in their past.
The razor was symbolic, for example, not erotic, though I suppose the shaving process may have felt erotic. And he recognises that it is a self deception, too.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13801
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I understand your concerns about speaking up to your folks. And about talking to a counsellor.
May I suggest that you choose one or more people here to pour your heart out to and to describe in as much or as little detail as oyu are comfortable with what took place that has overwhelmed your senses?
I can tell you from experience that a counsellor is not intimidating. The one I suggest to you is a truly gentle man.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Hey Eothain--
I think it's actually a good thing that you feel comfortable enough on here to vent a little--you know you're among friends, and sometimes that what friends are for.
It's a sad reality that we don't get to choose who we will have feelings for...as an example of the silliness and indignities we're all forced to suffer through by infatuation, I had a horrible crush on a beautiful young (i blush to admit it now) GIRL when i was just a bit older than you are now, during my first year of college. She was brilliant and beautiful and liked to hang with me, and though i knew i was queer as a three dollar bill, i feel head over heels for her. Looking back, i realize that she undoubtedly was aware on some level that i was totally non-threatening to her, and liked me on account of that, but at the time it was devastating. I said a lot of things like you said in the earlier post in the privacy of my journal at the time.
Lastly, I think the counsellor idea is a good one, as i've said before. Talking to someone who has no stake in the issue except your wellbeing is incredibly liberating. Be sure that the person you choose has some experience working with sexual minorities, though--i went to a counsellor when i was in college (yes, in the aftermath of my crush on the girl) and he just didn't have a clue what to say to me. It was one of the more amusing moments in my college career, but only in retrospect.
cheers!
aj
"I promise not to try not to fuck with your mind/ I promise not to mind if you go your way and i go mine/promise not to lie if i'm looking you right in your eye/promise not to try not to let you down."
--Eve6
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Eothain
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Likes it here |
Location: Rohan!
Registered: April 2004
Messages: 108
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XXX, I don't see what you're confused about. I would NEVER have sex with a 12 year old (or 13 or 14 year old for that matter), girl or boy. And certainly not Steve...
Also, the actual act of the shaving did not feel erotic in anyway, nor did I intend it to.
[quote]Has it occurred to you that maybe you are looking to protect and befriend your younger self, in a symbolic way? See, maybe you just want to make right for yourself what turned out so wrong.
That's a very interesting feeling. Very interesting indeed. But there could be some hint of truth in there...
Quote: Maybe you have trouble getting close to people, past a certain point?
To be honest, I have trouble getting close to people full-stop. I'm that quiet, timid, shy kid that always stands in the corner.
As for the rest of your post, it seems logical to tell someone. But I don't have a clue who I can tell... The male I'm closest too happens to live in Australia so he's somewhat difficult to talk to. My other brother I'm not very close with at all, nor my dad (and plus, that's just a road you don't want to go down with him)... As for the rest of the family, they're all women so what could they do? Plus, if I spoke the a counciller, no doubt the bloody law would get involved or something and I'd be put on a 'likely to be a sex-offender' list or something.
Quote:May I suggest that you choose one or more people here to pour your heart out to and to describe in as much or as little detail as oyu are comfortable with what took place that has overwhelmed your senses?
Meh, I wouldn't want to be a nuissance or anything. At least on here you can just not enter the thread or something. While I wouldn't want to be some annoying gnat that keeps on going on or something.
Today was my first day of school and ofcourse there were a bunch of new year 7s and it's wierd to think last years year 7s are now year 8... Anyhow, after school, I saw Steve walking up to Hamilton House. He wasn't with any friends so I was gonna walk up to him and ask him how his summer was, so I started walking after him to catch him up, then after a few seconds, I stopped, blurted out something like "Oh I can't bloody well be bothered!" then turned around walked over to my mum who was waiting in the carpark who greeted me with "You're late. What have you been doing?" Oh, nice to bloody well see you too! Insensitve woman, if you knew half the things I felt...
Eurgh... The thing is, I don't paticularly like talking to him and/or running into him in this kind of way. I mean, I don't want to like scare him or make him see me as some kind of predator or a stalker or something. Yet the way I meet up with him might make him thinkg that. Though, walking after him after school is pretty much the only way I can actually talk to him at all. Lunch I'm too late or he's in the lower school classes (which I can't really go into, can I? "Oh yeah, I just thought I'd pop into the year 8 classrooms to say hello", during the day either one of us are too busy walking to or in lessons, and I don't know what other ECAs he does appart from chess, but he normally plays other kids in his year anyway). Perhaps he could be scared of me and spends his time hoping or silently praying that I don't come up to him to try to talk... Oh I don't know...
Also, I'm not sure if I like A/S Chemistry. Not sure at all. There seems to be way too much practical stuff involved, and the text book scares me. I think I might fail A/S chemistry... Bugger...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13801
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You know the concern about "possible sex offender" is not real, I'm pleased to say. You see "the Thought Police" do not yet exist.
I am emailing you the name of a wholly excellent counsellor who is local to you and understands sexuality extremely well.
As for being a nuisance, no, you will not.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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a nuisance? Hardly. A really nice guy who's having the same difficulties we all faced when we were his age, for one reason or another? Yeah, i think so. You're comment about being the eternal shy guy hangin' out in the corner really hit home--that was me all over. How did i become such a pushy, in-your-face knowitall? Years of practice.
You won't fail A/S Chemistry...which i'm guessing is like our AP Chemistry. Why do i know this? Because you're a smart boy, and you know that if you need help in the subject, you can utilize the resources available at the school: teacher, study groups, tutoring services if the school offers them, that sort of thing. If you don't feel confident about your ability to do this class on your own, then there are probably others who feel the same way. You started an ECA in chess--how hard could it be to start a study group for the class? In my school, when someone wanted to do that sort of thing, you told the teacher, who suggested to the class at large that there was interest in forming a study group, and had those who were interested talk to the teacher, who would refer them to whomever expressed the original interest.
cheers!
aj
"I promise not to try not to fuck with your mind/ I promise not to mind if you go your way and i go mine/promise not to lie if i'm looking you right in your eye/promise not to try not to let you down."
--Eve6
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blue
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Likes it here |
Registered: August 2004
Messages: 131
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To be honest, I have trouble getting close to people full-stop. I'm that quiet, timid, shy kid that always stands in the corner.
Yeah, I had to work really hard to get out of that too. I could make acquaintances, be generally friendly, but it was tough at times, and making (and keeping) friendships was tougher. Relax, smile, and just be you. Just hanging out, that is, no pressure to do or say anything, helps. Going to things you like, such as chess, archery, study groups, science fiction, anything you're interested in, that helps, because already you have something in common with the people you meet. You're doing some of that. Sure, it feels awkward and you feel out of place, but just go up and say hi. Same for going over to a friend's house or dorm room. Same for at a party. -- The people who'll like you don't expect you to be the life of the party or have all those cool, witty, funny things to say. -- Senior high school, college (uni.), and then being out in the work world helped me, then *made* me work through being able to meet people. You work from there. I'm still kinda shy and I still work through these things I'm telling you about. But it gets easier, and you'll have some fun.
[...] But I don't have a clue who I can tell [...] Plus, if I spoke the a counciller, no doubt the bloody law would get involved or something and I'd be put on a 'likely to be a sex-offender' list or something.
When you talk to a counselor -- and by that I mean someone to help, I just realized "counselor" may also mean "lawyer, attorney" to you -- when you talk to a counselor, they have that same duty of confidentiality that a doctor or lawyer has with his clients, unless there is imminent danger to the patient/client or someone else. -- That means you are *not* going on any list for liking someone or for having sexual feelings.
There are teen hotlines. There are support organizations. They'll listen. They can help you get help and deal with the people you care about.
Yes, I know it's hard to know whom to trust, even just a little bit. -- But look, adults can be more understanding about this than you might think. -- And there are family and friends of yours, adult or teens, who care a lot, and *will* understand and *will* still love you just the same, whatever you're going through now, whatever you've been through before.
Meh, I wouldn't want to be a nuissance or anything. [...] I wouldn't want to be some annoying gnat that keeps on going on or something.
So, you'd rather lock it all inside your head and heart and never tell anyone, because you might "annoy" someone, even people here? No, my friend. You've done something good, by opening up just a little bit here on this board. I carried my secret around with me. At every turn, I'd say, "no, I can't tell, no one will understand, they'll hate me, I don't understand, why God, why do I have feelings like *these* for other guys, why did my friend and I do that when we were kids?" Later, it was, "I can't tell my best friend I like him that way, what would he think?" Then it was, "I must be wrong, bad, sinful. I mustn't do or say anything." (I was very lucky I didn't attempt suicide. I considered it. I got better.) Then it was, "oh, no, I'd just hurt them by telling them this, it's been too long, what does it matter, I should just get over it, why bother anyone, I'm such an idiot, and why do I like *guys*?" Finally, it was, "my parents are gone. I keep waking up at night alone, I cry when I think about this, I don't want to keep crying and being alone, this isn't any good. I have to get help, no matter what." -- And you know what? I'd bet that a lot of the guys here or on other boards can tell you similar things.
Look, you can open up. I'll listen. You want to ask me a question? Ask. I'll answer. I don't have all the answers. But I'll do my best.
We haven't been through exactly the same things, but honestly, you are not the only one to go through it. No matter what you've said or aren't saying or are just plain scared might or might not be, you are not alone.
You're not a nuissance in the slightest. You have every right to speak up and to want something better and to get through this to the other side, to be the real you.
~Blue
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i'm not a councilor eothain, i'm not trained in any way, but i AM a good listener, and i always have time for my friends. if oyu ever want to talk, i'll always be there for you mate, always.
but talking to someone does help, really talking, getting all your problems off oyur chest and into the open, it takes a weight off you. if oyu don't want to talk to me, or to a councilor, you have other friends who would be happy to listen to you, and oyu can find many of them here.
i was also the shy kid, the one that stands in a corner, and to some extent i still am. not everyone has the nerve, or perhaps lack of brains, dpeneding on your view point, to be the ones right in the middle showing off and making a fool of themselves, but getting all the attention.
not all girls, or boys like that, some people are attracted to the quiet ones, because they're usually the ones who have the most to say if oyu encourage them to talk.
don't get depressed because you're not in the centre of a crowd... if some boys are magnets, and people are attracted, well, just remember gold isn;t magnetic
Odi et amo: quare id faciam, fortasse requiris.
Nescio, set fieri sentio et excrucior
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Eothain
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Likes it here |
Location: Rohan!
Registered: April 2004
Messages: 108
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Gold may not be magnetic, but iron is and iron is far more usefull than gold.
The thought police may not exsist yet, but who knows how long it'll be before we have telescreens in all our rooms, and the government monitoring all our activity day and night...
As for the counciller, I'm not exactly sure where he's located in relatation to me, but I can guess. Though I couldn't just disappear for some time to see him unless I told my mum and I couldn't do that at all. I'd rather die horribly or something than that. I even blocked several of my family members of MSN so they wouldn't see my screen-names which might give them the hint of certain things or something.
Quote:a nuisance? Hardly. A really nice guy who's having the same difficulties we all faced when we were his age, for one reason or another?
"Having the same difficiulties we all faced when we were his age" Exactly. You never went and ranted on a forum of some kind? And I bet you never went and bugged some people like some pestering little fly that won't go away or something. You just dealt with it... Thus I just have to be strong as well...
Quote:- And there are family and friends of yours, adult or teens, who care a lot, and *will* understand and *will* still love you just the same, whatever you're going through now, whatever you've been through before.
There's no friends and as for family... I just couldn't talk about such stuff with them. It's like talking to your mate in the middle of the White House about planning terorist attacks against America. It's just something you don't do. And it's not like they care too much anyway. I mean, some time ago me and my mum went out for lunch and she asked if Steve had phoned up and I said no as he hadn't and she said something on the lines of "Oh well, it doesn't matter. Next year you'll be too busy and can forget about him." Not bloody likely! Being in year 12 won't suddenly just make my feelings magically disappear and it bloody well hasn't.
Quote:So, you'd rather lock it all inside your head and heart and never tell anyone, because you might "annoy" someone, even people here?
At least in my head and heart it won't make anything worse...
Anyhow, it was it the usual... Steve has a tendancy to appear almost everywhere. *sigh* Didn't talk to him at the end of school today though... I don't really see much point in talking to him though. It's a loose-loose situation. Either I talk to him, and nothing happens and I still get depressed just by seeing him, or I don't talk to him, nothing still happens and I'll get depressed anyway... There's no winning in this situation, just trying to find the lesser of two depressing thigies. *sigh* I kinda wish I had never met Steve... Or had just not happened to feel this way at all. It's so bloody unfair and annoying... I also wish I didn't have this bloody fixation with the past and everything pertaining to it... Ofcourse, my greatest wish is to befriend and develop a relationship with him, but that's not going to happen.
I also added a year 10 to my contact list and he noticed my name which sort of pertains to Steve at the moment, though I'm not going to tell him about Steve. Deffinately not yet at least.
Oh well, all I can do now is keep on going and hope that it'll eventually get better... If I make it that far, that is... Still, I'm a bit of a coward so I doubt they'll be anything involving any kind of pain to myself... Bit of a shame really...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13801
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You know I perfectlyunderstand that you feel unable to talk to anyone.
I've simply been thinking through what you might say.
"Mum, I have a few issues I can't talk to anyone about. I had some bad experiences when I was a kid. Nothing to do with the family. I need some help working them through. I went to an online place that deals in issues like that, and I've been recommended to see a certain guy. I've checked him out, and he seems to be top class."
Now she will ask you what's wrong. We all know that. And all you need to say is "I think I'll be braver after I've seen him. I suppose part of it is all about growing up. It's difficult for me even to talk this much."
You'll have had an email from me about this. We ought to keep that "behind the scenes" so to speak.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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blue
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Registered: August 2004
Messages: 131
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(Trying different quote tags this time, they didn't work properly in my last post.)
Don't you have some free time after school, when you could do what you want? You could see someone for help then. Bike, bus, cab, or plain old feet. At 16 in the US, teens are old enough for their driver's license, but not all have cars. You don't absolutely have to tell your mom or dad why you're seeing a counselor, for that matter, and I believe there are resources for youth like you, low cost or no cost.
Quote:You never went and ranted on a forum of some kind? And I bet you never went and bugged some people like some pestering little fly that won't go away or something. You just dealt with it... Thus I just have to be strong as well...
If there had been anything I could've gotten to at 16, you bet I would've went and ranted and yammered and looked at whatever I could've found to answer all the questions I had! When I was 17, the Apple IIe and the first PC's were state of the art, and a modem was a luxury, and all there were, were crappy, slow BBS's. Watch WarGames or Weird Science, those two movies, and you'll see what was available. -- I checked out some rather interesting books from the public library, though, (puberty, adolescence, that sort of thing) just not the really interesting ones I was too chicken to even look for.
"Just dealt with it? Be strong?" Yeah, right. Bull. I did that only because, like you, I had no idea where to turn or whether anyone would listen to me once they knew. -- We, myself and the others, are trying to tell you it was a *mistake* for us to do that and we wish to he** we had opened up to someone, somehow instead. -- Instead of losing sleep, having (excuse me) a bad wank (ultimately unsatisfying, even if it felt kinda good), or instead of holding in tears or crying when no one could see it. -- Any of those activities sound familiar?
You *can* talk to us here on the board, or by e-mail or IM. -- You may notice, people keep replying. We care. Like you, I wanted desperately to talk, to have someone to listen, but I couldn't bring myself to start. And, unfortunately, no one thought to dig it out of me, gently or not. (Yes, there was, "you seem kind of down, is there something you want to talk about?" But, oh, no, I couldn't say *that.*)
About parents, well, that may be so. Parents like to think their kids are innocent and perfect and untroubled, even if that isn't so. They also like to think their kids will come to them with any problem, not imagining that the problem might be so taboo that their child would rather do anything than reveal it, in order to protect himself and his parents, and just because it plain is too big to know what to do with.
Quote:At least in my head and heart it won't make anything worse... [ to hold it all in. ]
...But it will make it worse for *you* and that will affect everything else that matters to you. Please, you needn't do that to yourself.
Quote:Oh well, all I can do now is keep on going and hope that it'll eventually get better... If I make it that far, that is... Still, I'm a bit of a coward so I doubt they'll be anything involving any kind of pain to myself... Bit of a shame really...
Don't hurt yourself. You're more courageous than you give yourself credit for. Things will get better.
I wish I knew the words or gestures to help you, to reach you just enough so you know it's alright and you'll be OK somehow. I hope someone, something, helps you make it through.
You're not alone, Hugh.
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Eothain,
I am one of the British contingent on this messageboard and so much of what you have posted reminds me of the way I felt when I was at school in the late 1970s and entering the sixth form with a similar trepidation to your own.
Like you, I had trouble getting close to people. I stood on the outside looking in, an observer not a participant. Like you I was that "quiet, timid, shy kid that always stands in the corner".
I can also empathise with those feelings of wishing you were younger. I felt exactly the same. It's not cool to admit that you're scared about growing up. So kids don't. But underneath I suspect you are not as unusual as you think.
When I was a little bit younger than you are now my mother died, which affected me deeply as I was an only child. I hated the idea of growing up and wished that things were back the way they were. I longed to be 12 or 13 again. I remember even secretly wanting a grey shirt because the junior boys were allowed grey shirts at school whereas the seniors could only wear white. In those days there was no internet and no one to talk to, so I bottled everything up. In the years that followed I was like Peter Pan, refusing to grow up and avoiding any sexual contact as this symbolised a rite of passage that I was not prepared to cross. Looking back, I feel angry about the life I missed because of the way I felt at that time. I wish I had had the opportunity to see a counsellor.
That is why I hope that you will give careful consideration to following timmy's advice, endorsed by several others here, and seeing a counsellor yourself.
I know that the idea makes you nervous, but timmy is right: there is no such thing as the thought police. Hell, if we could be put in jail for what we think sometimes then there wouldn't be enough people left to run the prisons!
If you still have residual doubts on this point then consider two things. Firstly, counsellors like the one which timmy has recommended operate under strict codes of confidentiality under which they cannot and will not divulge what is said in the privacy of the consulting room except in certain very narrowly defined and exceptional circumstances (if you want to know what these are then ask before you start). Secondly, school is full of people having all kinds of crushes and infatuations on other people - more often than not keeping them totally secret. You are not unusual, OK?
Please give counselling a go. You have absolutely nothing to lose and the potential to learn useful things about yourself that will put matters in perspective and help you move forward.
Also, the fact that I'm only gonna be doing four subjects now, no longer doing such things as Maths and English and French (or German) and these are things that I've always done. It just seems such an alien concept to not be doing them as I've always done them. I've never not done Maths or English. And I have so many memories down the years from the various classes... I don't wanna be in the sixth form! *cries*
I think you will enjoy the sixth form. It's true that you are waving goodbye to some familiar subjects. But hopefully you have chosen the subjects you enjoy most and by doing fewer of them you will be able to study them in far greater depth, which makes it much more interesting. Also, school can be a very hierarchical place and reaching the top tier has a number of advantages. You will probably find the teachers treat you with more respect and allow you greater freedom to express yourself. And there are no older kids any more to bully and taunt you!
Finally, don't stop posting here because you think you are a "nuisance". You are not. There are some very caring people on this board who remember what it was like and who want to help you make the right decisions.
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blue
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Likes it here |
Registered: August 2004
Messages: 131
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Eothain said:
Also, the fact that I'm only gonna be doing four subjects now, no longer doing such things as Maths and English and French (or German) and these are things that I've always done. It just seems such an alien concept to not be doing them as I've always done them. I've never not done Maths or English. And I have so many memories down the years from the various classes... I don't wanna be in the sixth form! *cries*
Perhaps next term, you could add an elective course in one of the subjects you miss so. Discuss it with whomever helps you plan your schedules, your class advisor or guidance counselor. Of course, you'll have required courses, but there should be things there you like, too.
What are your favorite subjects? Those will lead you to what you want to do in life.
For now, why not join a club or study group for the subjects you like. It's fun, you'll get to meet people who like the subject, and it'll keep your skills sharp. Also, it helps in your college (university) entrance. You can help out other guys with their homework, form friendships with guys of all different years, all those things you'd like. You might even find a best friend or more than a friend. It's a way for a nice, quiet guy to ease into a little more social life.
Not everybody is the outgoing, easy-going type who seems to have no trouble meeting and greeting and making friends. It takes me a while to get comfortable and start up in a new situation, especially at a party or other social event. -- It's much easier for me to express myself in writing. It takes me longer to open up in person, and I never quite feel like I get everything across that I want to, or think of all that I'd like to say, until five minutes after I get home! :laughs at self:
Oh, et aussi, si tu veux practiquer le français, je le parle. Il y a quelques ans que je l'avait parlé extensivement, donc j'aimerais le practique. Et il y a des autres ice qui peuvent t'aider bien avec des autres sujets.
( Just in case you didn't get all that: Oh, and also, if you want to practice French, I speak it. It's been some years since I spoke it extensively, therefore I'd like to practice. And there are others here who can help you with other subjects. )
~Blue
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Eothain
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Likes it here |
Location: Rohan!
Registered: April 2004
Messages: 108
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Perhaps next term, you could add an elective course in one of the subjects you miss so. Discuss it with whomever helps you plan your schedules, your class advisor or guidance counselor. Of course, you'll have required courses, but there should be things there you like, too.
Well, to be honest I don't actually paticularly like most of the subjects that I'm leaving behind... Especially not Maths and English. Though I could tollerate them. Still, I'm a bit pleased that I'm leaving them, but I miss them for the actual fact of what they kinda symbolised, not for the actual subjects themselves.
( Just in case you didn't get all that: Oh, and also, if you want to practice French, I speak it. It's been some years since I spoke it extensively, therefore I'd like to practice. And there are others here who can help you with other subjects. )
Je ne parle pas Francais. The last time I did french was in year 9 and I've forgotten most of it.
When I was a little bit younger than you are now my mother died, which affected me deeply as I was an only child. I hated the idea of growing up and wished that things were back the way they were. I longed to be 12 or 13 again. I remember even secretly wanting a grey shirt because the junior boys were allowed grey shirts at school whereas the seniors could only wear white. In those days there was no internet and no one to talk to, so I bottled everything up. In the years that followed I was like Peter Pan, refusing to grow up and avoiding any sexual contact as this symbolised a rite of passage that I was not prepared to cross. Looking back, I feel angry about the life I missed because of the way I felt at that time. I wish I had had the opportunity to see a counsellor.
Oh, sorry. You deffinately had it worse than me. Makes my problem feel rather trivial. Though I've had friends who have lost their mum, one when he was 11, and another when he was 12... Still, you do sound like me... The thing is though, even though you suggest seeing a counciler, I don't see how seeing one would 'cure' me and make me forget my longing for the past, move on and live a happier life. I mean, he might be good, but there's no-way he can be that good. And to be truthfull... I kinda slightly want to long for the past, because then I'm remembering it and if I didn't, I'd just forget about it and I don't want to do that... Still, that's only a small part of me... Though my longing for the past is still as strong as usual. As shown by the fact that on the game Crusader kings, I pay special attention to anyone 13 or under. Infact, so much so that one 9 year old I offered the ability to become my vassal. While a 10 year old I forced to abdicate his Dukedom and another 7 year old duke, I assassinated... Ofcourse, I'm not usually that evil. Anyhow, everytime I see someone on the game who's age is 12 or under, I get that pang in my heart... Heck, I remember playing Pharoah and looking at the city census and the number of 11 year olds in my city and feeling that same pang...
And at archery today, my quest to befriend Steven and Matthew suffered a set back. Mainly the fact that they were given a target on the other side of the field to shoot at. How an I meant to befriend someone who's miles away, with loads of people in between me and them? It's like fate itself wants me to be lonely... I mean, my mum did actually have a son after me... but she had a miscarriage... I would have actually had a little brother... Something that I've wanted for years (ever since my older sister became a teenager, I think)... But fate decided to take a tripple hit against me, my would be brother and my mum... Oh well...
We, myself and the others, are trying to tell you it was a *mistake* for us to do that and we wish to he** we had opened up to someone, somehow instead.
Well, I've opened up here... Surely that counts... Though I would rather open up to a friend than a counciler really. Just I don't seem to have that friend. Though perhaps I could try openning up to my best friend tommorow... And my family is completely out of the question. Though if you ever want to IM, you can, though use ben_dorefranklin@hotmail.com for that...
Instead of losing sleep, having (excuse me) a bad wank (ultimately unsatisfying, even if it felt kinda good), or instead of holding in tears or crying when no one could see it. -- Any of those activities sound familiar?
Yeah they do... Heck, I spent a large amount of the school day holding in tears... Except for during lessons.
About parents, well, that may be so. Parents like to think their kids are innocent and perfect and untroubled, even if that isn't so. They also like to think their kids will come to them with any problem, not imagining that the problem might be so taboo that their child would rather do anything than reveal it, in order to protect himself and his parents, and just because it plain is too big to know what to do with.
My mum claims that she's open and I can talk to her about anything, but I'm not so willing to test her on that. I mean, something like that would be horrible... I don't care how open she claims to be, she can't be that open. And if I do tell her, it will just make everything awkward and difficult and such. I expect more harm would come from it than good...
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"The thing is though, even though you suggest seeing a counciler, I don't see how seeing one would 'cure' me and make me forget my longing for the past, move on and live a happier life. I mean, he might be good, but there's no-way he can be that good. And to be truthfull... I kinda slightly want to long for the past, because then I'm remembering it and if I didn't, I'd just forget about it and I don't want to do that... Still, that's only a small part of me... Though my longing for the past is still as strong as usual."
The counselor is not going to "cure" you as you might think. You don't have a problem....the thing with you is that you are keeping all those feelings deep inside of you which you need to let out. A counselor is just supposed to listen to you and every now and then give you some adivice. They are not an enemy... they are just there to HELP you talk.
Look at me. I'm 17 years of age and i go to a counselor (spycologist) whatever you want to call it. I was like you.. for a long time i kept so many things to myself and honestly it got to a point when i couldn't keep it inside anymore. I had to talk! I went with him and all i did for 45 minutes every two weeks or so was talk about anything i felt confortable with. I explained everything that was in my head and of course he listened. He gave me advice.. he made feel confortable, he made me evaluate my life, he encourage me to view life a different way.
YOu don't have to forget the past because is all you have. I know i still remember my childhood and there is times when i wish i could go back but i can't. They are just "memories". Memories i cherish and will never forget. However, what matters the most is that i'm here right now and i need to live my life today not in the past. I need to look forward to other things even if it seems like i'm not going to make it.
The things that happened after going to the counselor.
1) I opened up to my mother and it told her about my sexuality.
2) I communicate with my mother more
3) I have made new friends , the only difference is that now i actually TALK to them about my life. They trust me , i trust them , we all help each other out.
4) More people know about my sexuality
5) MOST important.. now i don't have to carry the weight of all the problems in my back.
Don't be so hard on yourself. There is always people out there ready to help you.
You don't love someone because they are beautiful, they are beautiful because you love them.
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blue
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Likes it here |
Registered: August 2004
Messages: 131
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Eothain of Rohan wrote:
> I don't see how seeing one would 'cure' me and make me forget my longing for the past, move on and live a happier life. [...] I kinda slightly want to long for the past, because then I'm remembering it and if I didn't, I'd just forget about it and I don't want to do that...
As Nick and M said, you don't need to be 'cured'. You don't have to forget your past. Good and bad, past experience is what we use to guide our present decisions into our future.
> It's like fate itself wants me to be lonely...
That's simple circumstance, not fate. You aren't fated to be lonely.
> I mean, my mum did actually have a son after me... but she had a miscarriage...
That explains a little about why you feel the way you do.
I remember being little and staring at the tile art as someone explained my mom was at the hospital, and I might have a baby sister, but that the baby was sick. My mom almost didn't make it, and the baby only lived a few hours. Is that fate? I don't know, really. I just know I too wanted a brother or sister, older or younger. My parents apparently considered adoption, but didn't. That went as much or more to disappoint me inside, because I was old enough by then to think that it'd happen, but no, they decided against. I never got an explanation why, although as an adult, I asked.
> Well, I've opened up here... Surely that counts... Though I would rather open up to a friend than a counciler really. Just I don't seem to have that friend. Though perhaps I could try openning up to my best friend tommorow... And my family is completely out of the question.
That counts a great deal. It's a great step. I wonder if I could've been so brave when I was a teen. Of course, you'd rather talk to a friend.
Think about this, because I don't know your friend or you enough to be sure it's the best advice. Talk to your friend a little, tell him (or her) you're having some trouble and need to talk to someone, tell him it's serious, and he might not like it. If he seems OK with that, you can say a little more and see how he reacts. He may not have any idea what you'll say. He may be just as scared as you are to talk about something so personal. You don't have to say everything all at once. If you can't help it, and it all spills out, well, I pray your friend will be a true friend for you. Don't be ashamed or feel guilty.
> Yeah they do... Heck, I spent a large amount of the school day holding in tears... Except for during lessons.
Yeah, I was generally fine at school, even at home, but at night, or sometimes by myself, it wasn't so good. Like M said, I didn't open up to my friends, even my best friends, about certain things. I didn't want them to know those things about me. I thought they'd abandon me, or I just didn't want to "burden" them.
> My mum claims that she's open and I can talk to her about anything, but I'm not so willing to test her on that. I mean, something like that would be horrible... I don't care how open she claims to be, she can't be that open. And if I do tell her, it will just make everything awkward and difficult and such. I expect more harm would come from it than good...
I don't know your mom, er, mum. I don't know your full story, and you don't have to tell me. The advice someone offered earlier, to approach her in general terms, the sample conversation suggested (by Timmy was it?) is good advice. It gives you and her some breathing room. You might find that your mum knows you've been down and worried about something for a while. She might help you open up. Even wanting to help, it might take her a while to get used to the idea that her son went through something difficult with someone who was supposed to be a friend, and that it was sexual.
I won't claim that all parents will be accepting of news like that. But I think if I'd given my parents a chance, or if they'd sat me down and given me no choice, somehow, but to tell them, I think they would've understood at least a little bit. My parents always said I could tell them anything. But how could I tell them about that friend of mine when I was 11? There was a time or two I almost opened up to a friend or two. At least I would've gotten it out.
I've rambled on. I hope I've helped and given good advice, instead of just confused you further, or confused my own past with your situation. Good luck, and know that you have people who pray for the best for you.
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The thing is though, even though you suggest seeing a counciler, I don't see how seeing one would 'cure' me and make me forget my longing for the past, move on and live a happier life. I mean, he might be good, but there's no-way he can be that good. And to be truthfull... I kinda slightly want to long for the past, because then I'm remembering it and if I didn't, I'd just forget about it and I don't want to do that...
Don't see the process in terms of being "cured". See it terms of understanding yourself better. The ability to empathise with younger kids is a good thing and I would be the last person to suggest that you let it go. If you can be a mentor to one of the year 7's then great. I think you would be very good at that.
If, however, it reaches a point where it becomes a fixation, if it reaches a point where it holds you back from you experiencing being you now, then it becomes more of an issue. And I think it is an issue for you else you wouldn't be posting about it. A good counsellor would help you to understand the processes that make you feel like this and thereby help you restore some kind of balance.
This doesn't mean anyone would make you forget, merely help you to reapportion your resources.
Think of yourself as the conductor of an orchestra. In one section there is the 16 year-old Eothain who has present day needs, who needs to be practical and organised. In another section there is the child Eothain who lives more in the past, who is perhaps more playful and spontaneous. Your job is to ensure that both get their fair share of attention. (There may be other sections in your orchestra as well.)
We all have a "child self" within us, which never goes completely away even when we grow old. Actually the world would probably be a better place if more grown-ups paid more attention to him/her.
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Actually, eothain, forums like this one didn't exist when i was dealing with the troubles i had when i was your age. But if they had, be sure i would have gone on them and ranted much like you claim to. Instead, i had one adult friend who helped me up when no-one else would. I didn't do it alone, and i certainly didn't do it by being 'strong.'
As i see it, here are the choices you've got: tough it out for two more years (i think each level of form 6 is a year) until you can go to Uni, which seems likely, given your scores on the GCSE tests. at that point, you'll be out from under your parents, with a lot more freedom to make some choices for yourself, and some room to be able to deal with this in a little less closely observed environment. This choice involves two years of the same crap you've been dealing with for the last year that we've known you.
Or deal with it now, with all the risks of exposure that involves, and have done with it. Know that this isn't going to be a quick fix--it's going to need time and a lot of hard work to get better. BUT...you are going to need to address this problem eventually.
Either way, i think i can say with some confidence that both myself and a whole lot of the other people here will stand with you and give whatever support we can. We like you because you're a good guy, and however much support you allow us to give you is how much you'll get, i think.
cheers,
aj
"I promise not to try not to fuck with your mind/ I promise not to mind if you go your way and i go mine/promise not to lie if i'm looking you right in your eye/promise not to try not to let you down."
--Eve6
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Eothain
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Likes it here |
Location: Rohan!
Registered: April 2004
Messages: 108
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The counselor is not going to "cure" you as you might think. You don't have a problem....the thing with you is that you are keeping all those feelings deep inside of you which you need to let out. A counselor is just supposed to listen to you and every now and then give you some adivice. They are not an enemy... they are just there to HELP you talk.
Interesting, but still... I'd rather talk to a friend though that isn't gonna happen. Infact, more than that, I'd rather this hadn't happened in the first place. I shouldn't have anything to talk about, or any reason to warrant talking about anything... But I do... And it's so horrible... I doubt any amount of talking or ranting will help me...
That's simple circumstance, not fate. You aren't fated to be lonely.
Sure doesn't seem like it, but then I'm probably over-reacting as per usual. I did, however for a brief moment in my life had one friend. One best friend, the type of person whom I could talk to about the problem I have at the moment. Unfortuntately, he moved away during year 7 and I lost contact with him and haven't seen him since. Shame as I had so many good times with him, and he's the type of friend I'd like now... Also, he happened to be exactly one year, one month and one day older than me. Coincidence? Most likely. An interesting one, none the less...
That explains a little about why you feel the way you do.
Maybe. Though I didn't know about it at the time, being only two, I only found out recently.
That counts a great deal. It's a great step. I wonder if I could've been so brave when I was a teen. Of course, you'd rather talk to a friend.
I didn't actually talk to him. Anyway, he's more into technology than anything like that. Seriously, I've never seen him show any emotions other than happiness, jealousy and anger. Still, I doubt I could talk to him anyway. No-offense to him, but I just doubt his maturity...
one section there is the 16 year-old Eothain who has present day needs, who needs to be practical and organised. In another section there is the child Eothain who lives more in the past, who is perhaps more playful and spontaneous. Your job is to ensure that both get their fair share of attention. (There may be other sections in your orchestra as well.)
I personally would prefer to ignore the 16 year-old Eothain and just focus all my attention to the 11 year old, child Eothain. The 16 year old has nothing going for him at all. At least the child has his youth and innocence. To go back to the carefree days, of games and make believe and... the like.
BUT...you are going to need to address this problem eventually.
True, but I'll try to postpone it for as long as possible...
In other news, I chose my ECAs for this term today. I chose chess ofcourse, which Steve didn't sign up to. Nor many other year 8s, I think... Though anyone in year 9 or below has to do three and I only saw Steve's name on one list... Anyhow, I couldn't decide of one to do, infact there was one ECA that caught my eye, football, but it was open only to year 8s and 7s. Anyhow, I mentioned it to the head of girl's sport who happened to be there at the time, and she told me to put down my name anyway and then go and ask the person running it if I can join. The person running it is, apparently, an Aussie gap student. So tommorow, or sometime, I'm gonna ask him. It would be pretty good, I think. Getting to play football with a bunch of year 7s and 8s (Steve included!) but I don't know how hard I'll have to argue for him to let me to join. I may just have to ask and he'll accept, or I may have to debate specific points. Ofcourse, I do have a point I could use: By partaking in this ECA with the year 7s and 8s, I'd be able to forge some friendships and bonds with the younger boys, and a bond between the sixth form and first and second form. The headmaster said something about mingling and making bonds with the younger years and this is what this would be so surely he'd let me join? I hope so at least...
And now, I really have to go and do some chemistry prep/homework.
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blue
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Likes it here |
Registered: August 2004
Messages: 131
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Eothain of Rohan wrote:
> I'd rather this hadn't happened in the first place. I shouldn't have anything to talk about, or any reason to warrant talking about anything... But I do... And it's so horrible... I doubt any amount of talking or ranting will help me...
All your other points merit answering, but I'm just going to try this one.
Of course you feel that way. It shouldn't have happened, certainly not the way it did. Of course it was horrible. Go ahead and talk as much as you want here. Yes, you would give almost anything if it had been different, or not happened at all. It makes you sad and angry and you carry around shame and guilt and all kinds of negatives. If you're religious, you have questions about that too. Maybe you blame yourself for some of it.
You were only 11. You were just a naive kid. You wanted something fun and exciting and caring and loving. Maybe it started out that way, and you liked that, and that's good. But at some point, that wasn't what you got. It was not your fault. If you did some things you aren't proud of, well, you were 11.
Believe me, I know exactly what that is like. For that matter, my former classmate must know what that's like also.
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"Interesting, but still... I'd rather talk to a friend though that isn't gonna happen."
For exactly the same reason many people are suggesting you go see a counselor. You claim not to have friends that you can talk to, why not a counselor.
You tell your stuff here and we are total strangers even from half way across the world. The counselor would be a stranger too... the only difference is he can give you direct input which might be more helpful to you. Here( in messangers too ) all you get to do is read words which can be taken many ways. On the other hand , if you talk to a person personally, you can absorve his advice and take whatever you need to help you along the way.
Why do you close yourself to other people???? Specially people that maybe have some wisdom to share with you.
In my opinion you are making a storm in a glass of water. You can get out of there anytime only if open up to someone willing to listen. Not just to kids but to people of any age.
You remind me a lot like me. I used to think i had no friends. I thought nobody liked me. I felt so left out. I noticed everybody belong to a group, they would talk to each other , they would go out together, etc. Where was I? i was alone with nobody to my side. Guess what i realized? I was the one the problem. Is wasn't because people didn't like me or whatever i thought, it was because everybody thought i was weird and never made an effort to talk to them. People are always attracted to someone with a positive attitude, i had a negative one. Slowly i started changing, i started to make an effort and i started talking about my life, about my problems, about my likes/dislikes... you name it. Before i was afraid i would annoy people with my problems but i found out many are going through similar situations. I was NOT the only one!!!!!
If you want to get out of this depression you need to start doing something for yourself. First you need to talk to someone ( in person ) and if you keep saying you have nobody then you are just making excuses because you are the one that is closing all the doors when really all you need to do is take away the covers from your eyes to see that there are people out there willing to help you. A counselor might help, a friend might help, we can help but only to a certain extend.
About this comment
"I personally would prefer to ignore the 16 year-old Eothain and just focus all my attention to the 11 year old, child Eothain. The 16 year old has nothing going for him at all. At least the child has his youth and innocence. To go back to the carefree days, of games and make believe and... the like."
Here is a poem
"Living In Your Past"
by Grace
You're living in your past
A part of your life that is no more
You constantly keep thinking back
To the way things were before
Which causes you to miss out
On opportunities within your grasp
You're overwhelmed with self-doubt
Confused by every task
You keep focusing on the one you lost
Overlooking the people who are still there
You can't help but feel as if your love has been tossed
And you've led yourself to believe that no one cares
But that's not the case at all
There are many people who still love you
Remember the people who helped you after your fall?
Look a little closer... they're all still within your view
I know it's hard to let go of the past
Especially when it holds such great memories
I know it's hard to shake the feeling of being the outcast
When that's truly how you're feeling
But you're missing out on so many things
Each day that you think of the way your life used to be
There are so many blessings others are trying to bring
And without knowing... their gifts you're rejecting
I hope someday soon you realize
That your life can be better then it was in the past
I pray that your smile once again reaches your eyes
And you no longer feel as if you're made of glass
I hope you start living in the present
Embracing the opportunities that come your way
I pray happiness in your life becomes a constant
Starting with today
Remember there is no need to forget the past.... but please start living the present because that is where you are.
I hope you find someone you can talk to.
Sincerely ,
A 17 year old
You don't love someone because they are beautiful, they are beautiful because you love them.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13801
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Eothain of Rohan wrote:
>
> Interesting, but still... I'd rather talk to a friend though that isn't gonna happen. Infact, more than that, I'd rather this hadn't happened in the first place. I shouldn't have anything to talk about, or any reason to warrant talking about anything... But I do... And it's so horrible... I doubt any amount of talking or ranting will help me...
The thing is, all a counsellor really is, is a perosn who listens actively. By which I mean he asks the difficutl questions you have not beenwilling to ask yourself. Such questions might include thinsg like "Why is the 11 year old experience so important in your mind?" "What about being 16 is unappetoising to you?" and other harder to answer ones. His role is to make you do the work, not to do any work for you.
The experience you had may have been truly awful. Or your mind may have made it feel awful. Only you know what took place and what its nature was. But a good listener can help you to focus. Note, please, that I am not trivilaising what took place.
>
> Sure doesn't seem like it, but then I'm probably over-reacting as per usual. I did, however for a brief moment in my life had one friend. One best friend, the type of person whom I could talk to about the problem I have at the moment. Unfortuntately, he moved away during year 7 and I lost contact with him and haven't seen him since. Shame as I had so many good times with him, and he's the type of friend I'd like now... Also, he happened to be exactly one year, one month and one day older than me. Coincidence? Most likely. An interesting one, none the less...
Nothing to prevent your finding him again if you wish to.
>
> I personally would prefer to ignore the 16 year-old Eothain and just focus all my attention to the 11 year old, child Eothain. The 16 year old has nothing going for him at all. At least the child has his youth and innocence. To go back to the carefree days, of games and make believe and... the like.
You are stuck with being 16. I am stuck with being 52. For many years I have wanted to be 13/14/15 again. It hasn't happened. After a long while, too long, I determined to get on with being my age. It's quite pleasant, butI'm not totally sure I ever grew up.
>
> BUT...you are going to need to address this problem eventually.
>
> True, but I'll try to postpone it for as long as possible...
>
Why?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13801
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M wrote:
> In my opinion you are making a storm in a glass of water. You can get out of there anytime only if open up to someone willing to listen. Not just to kids but to people of any age.
This cannot have been easy to hear. Nor to write. But it has merit. Note that M is not exasperated with you. Instead he is painting it precisely how you display it to him and reflecting what he sees to you.
The only thing, at present, that is inevitable, is that you are currently hearing without listening. And that will change, because you are intelligent, warm, bright, charming and normal. You just got stuck in a rut.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Eothain
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Likes it here |
Location: Rohan!
Registered: April 2004
Messages: 108
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Of course you feel that way. It shouldn't have happened, certainly not the way it did. Of course it was horrible. Go ahead and talk as much as you want here.
Though it's not just the whole event that I feel that way about, but also my whole mindset. I shouldn't have this bloody issue with the past, regardless of what happened in it. I shouldn't have such a strong desire, no matter how bad any events were... Yet it's been something I've felt for a heck of a long time... After all, the actual event itself, though I regret and wish never happened, to me it's not that big. My longing for the past is much stronger. The event may have caused the longing for the past, but I don't really care about the event itself. Well, maybe I do, a bit.
For exactly the same reason many people are suggesting you go see a counselor. You claim not to have friends that you can talk to, why not a counselor.
Because... I just have some kind phobia of them. I'd find it bloody impossible to talk face to face with a complete stranger about sort of stuff. At least here, I'm behind my monitor. I can be much more open and confident.
In my opinion you are making a storm in a glass of water. You can get out of there anytime only if open up to someone willing to listen. Not just to kids but to people of any age.
Probably true, but then I AM a teenager after all. Also, it's not the fact that I don't have any friends. I'm not some total recluse at school sitting in the corner. I do talk to people, I do have friends yes. I do talk about my likes and dislikes and so on. It's just there's none I could talk to about that... It's not making excuses, it's true... As for a counciler, I just couldn't speak to someone face-to-face who's a complete stranger about such things... Nice poem though. Quite true... But there's no oppurtunities for me to embrace anyway. To quote Elrond "There is nothing for you here. Only death."
Remember there is no need to forget the past.... but please start living the present because that is where you are.
Damn the present! Damn the past, damn the future. Where I am is where I'd rather not be... The present has litterally nothing going for it. Nothing at all... There's nothing good about it at all. Except, maybe, I don't have to do maths. Whoopdee-bloody-dooo. Gone are the carefree days of innocence and youth. Gone is the past and the naivity and optimism and hopefullness of childhood...
Nothing to prevent your finding him again if you wish to.
The fact that I don't have his number, I'm not even too sure where he lives, and the fact that it's been four years. He most likely will have done something I can't. Moved on.
The experience you had may have been truly awful. Or your mind may have made it feel awful.
I can't remember. Realistically, the latter might be at least somewhat true, but one thing for certain is that being molested in your class room by your 'friend' when there's loads of other people in the room and you're powerless to do anything incase it will cause people to notice and you're terrified people will notice... it's not exactly the funnest experience ever...
You are stuck with being 16. I am stuck with being 52. For many years I have wanted to be 13/14/15 again. It hasn't happened. After a long while, too long, I determined to get on with being my age. It's quite pleasant, but I'm not totally sure I ever grew up.
I know, I know. I should just let it go. I should just accept the past for what it is, and start living in the present... I sure know that, but acting on it is something different. It's something I just can't do. I wish I could, but I can't. Ofcourse, I'd rather I was actually in the past than the present. Instead of being torn, pulled by both the past and the present.
Why?
Because I really don't want to see a counciler. I might see him anyway, but it would be rather reluctantly.
And in other news, my kingdom on Crusader Kings fell appart horribly. I'd conquered most of Ireland and decalered myself king of Ireland and then the moment before I pressed the menu button to save, one of my counts declared war on me, followed by another, and another, and another... And the entire British Isles became a horrible battlefield. And to add an insult to injury, it crashed. Two hours of ruling, numerous brutal battles... all for nothing... Yes, it's off topic but it certainly does affect my mood (not anger, I'm not the angry type, usually sadness) which influences this post.
On a better note, I did talk to two year 8s today. Ones which I had known from last year. First time I've talked to any in that year so far this term. Can't remember the exact convo but it involved exams... Still haven't talked to Steve though...
Also talked to Nick, the person running the ECA. He has no problems against me joining but he said to speak to the guy who's in charge of all that sort of stuff. I actually know this guy quite well, so I'm gonna talk to him tommmorow. Hopefully, he'll let me.
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blue
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Likes it here |
Registered: August 2004
Messages: 131
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Hi again. You know, I think maybe we've been kind of hassling you about all this stuff. Sorry, buddy. Why can't we just let you talk and relax, right? I think maybe we should.
You, me, and all of us, are getting so worked up over this because so much of it is familiar, one way or another.
I'd write more or even reveal a little about my history, but I keep trying to fall asleep, so I'm gonna catch some Z's for a bit.
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I read your post several times.
Blue is right.... i think people (I) have talked too much about this issue i think we forgot about letting you talk. From your posts it seems you know very well what is happening to you, anyways what a better person to know than you.
You have recieved many comments from different people and now is up to you to decide what to absorve in order to apply it to your life. We can only speculate certain solutions but in the end it is up to you to decide what to do. Don't get discourage to continue posting about your life/worries/ideas/ etc because there will always be people reading and listening to what you have to say. Yes i know it appears you have recieved so many criticisms lately ( from me too ) but it is with the best intentions. We only know what you have written on this board so it makes it diffult to know what really is happening. The comments are just for you to review different points of view in order to decide a course of action.
Keep posting. Personally i have read all of your post and i understand you where you stand. I don't think is best way to think because you can do much better, however i already stablished my opinion and is there for you to read.
Hope everything works out for you
Sincerely ,
M.
You don't love someone because they are beautiful, they are beautiful because you love them.
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hey eothain--
cool about the ECA--sounds like you're in. maybe they'll make you take a leadership role in the games, which would be way cool.
sucks about your kingdom on the game. sounds a pretty cool game though...is it on PC or a console? Damn apple--why don't they have more games available? "We hates it forever!" Why did your dukes revolt? you must have been a bit machiavellian...you know, "It is better to be feared than loved."
BTW, for the sake of your american friends, by 'football' you actually mean 'rugby', right?
cheers.
aj
"I promise not to try not to fuck with your mind/ I promise not to mind if you go your way and i go mine/promise not to lie if i'm looking you right in your eye/promise not to try not to let you down."
--Eve6
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13801
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Eothain of Rohan wrote:
>
> As for a counciler, I just couldn't speak to someone face-to-face who's a complete stranger about such things...
Ok, let's explore that a little. First of all, were you to gird up your loins and see someone sensible, conmfortable and competent, you woudl find that "face to face" is wholly optional. But I am taking it for a metaphor for "in person". I do understand your reluctance.
So, let's leave the concept of a counsellor aside for the moment. I'm not going to leave it for ever, you know. But for the moment.
Leaving the counsellor aside, I think it is probabaly time to rid yourself of demons in print and in this forum. OK, someone will get off on that, but who cares? Time to say what happened, why it happened, what you liked, what you disliked and why it was abusive.
This is not different from a session with a counsellor. the sole difference is that the questions come later than they woudl in a one to one session, and the typed word is unemotional, so you can not see or hear the intent behind it.
For the present let us leave the issue of desiring to be a different age "parked". That can come later.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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