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hi guys, i'm sorry for creating a thread about me, not the most interesting topics i know... but there are somethings i want to say, but i never seem to be able to say them, not even over MSN
its kinda long... and random. sorry
27/10/04
Do you ever have the feeling when the whole world is against you, when no one and nothing wants you to succeed and everything conspires against you?
When the world gets to tough, what can you do? Some people are strong; they can weather and bare it, reach out toward the brightness of the hopes and dreams, their future, and know that the best is yet to come. I’m not like them, I’m not strong, whatever I’m told, whatever the nice people I know say, I’m not strong, I’m a coward, always have been, running from conflict hiding away, staying deep in the closet for no reason other than be too scared to come out of it.
This is going to turn into one of those depressing stories that everyone knows… but I can’t talk about this, not to anyone, only the keyboard do I trust to be my confident, only the hard drive can keep the secrets of my deep desires, depressions and the great sadness I bear with me.
What is it with me? Why is it everything I try and do go wrong? At school at least I had my grades, it was all I had, worthless bits of paper though they maybe, it was something i could say, yes this is mine, this is my achievement. Here at uni I don’t have that… no longer am I top of the class, no longer can I take solace in the fact that I’m doing well, here I feel I’m failing… I just can’t work like this, I don’t want freedom, I want people to tell me what I need to be doing, with timetables, and deadlines… here I have nothing to measure myself against.
But studies aside, there must be more to life than academia. Isn’t there??
Here I am, Wednesday night, retro reloaded down the union, an invitation to come out from my best and only friend here at uni. I plead no money. I still have at least ₤10 on my weekly budget…
What’s wrong with me, why am I always the one left sitting by the side? Why do I choose to be the stay at home?
At least one of those questions I can answer. Too many nights where I’ve gone to a club and still been left sitting on the side, starring round the room and seeing the only other people doing what I’m doing are the dirty old men who hope to get some nice young boy who’s drunk that they can play with. Will I end up like them? Old and alone, outside society, cold and depressed.
It goes back to last summer, back to the time when I finally had to admit to myself who and what I was, but I guess I didn’t do a very good job of it. All I did then was admit I was bi, even then I was still lying to myself, I know what I am deep down, can I ever tell anyone? Can I ever be myself? Or is it too late for me now? Too long have I screamed at the heavens, “oh god, why me, why can’t I be normal, why can’t I be just like everyone else?” my voice slowly trailing off as I fall to my knees in the field at night and lie on the cold grass crying (yes I actually did do this). Too long now have I bottled myself up inside, kept all my feelings locked away deep in my heart, never telling, letting anyone close, for every time I have, all I have suffered is great pain and heartache. My old friends told me my face used to be like a stone wall, I could crack and joke and never even give the faintest of smiles, but now, the face remains, but all the walls inside are falling. I can’t talk to anyone, I’m trapped in my own head, I can’t discuss my feelings, my emotions…
On Timmy’s advice I went to see a councilor here, I stopped going after 3 weeks… she thought i was getting better, fact is, I just couldn’t talk to her… I couldn’t tell her stuff, and after I recovered from my emotional outpouring, on the outside I became controlled, old stone face returned. And every time I left her office, all the words I wanted to say but couldn’t came running through my mind, and by the time I get home, I’m ready to cry again.
I don’t need someone to talk to, I don’t need someone I can tell all my problems to, I need someone who can help me, who can help me solve my problems, who can be active in my life, not passive. A councilor can’t, all she does is listen, and maybe offer advice, when what I need most is a hug from someone who actually cares about me, not for me, someone who takes an interest because they like or love me, not because they are paid to.
But I have no one, not any more, and who do I have to blame for that? Me, who else?
I’ve joined the unions LGBT society, (gay society) I meet with them, relax, I can be gay with them, if you get my meaning, and I go out to the local gay bar with them, and stand on the side, and watch them dance. And whenever I join in, I end up as the other guy, the odd one out in a group of people dancing, the one without a partner, or if there should be an even number, someone else gets invited into the group…
At this society there’s this really great guy called mark, he’s 2nd year, so older than me, but really great, and cute to… I tried, and I failed… he wasn’t interested in me, not in that way… but I couldn’t take a hint… I kept on trying, until he finally had to spell it out for me. How could I be so stupid, endangering the only friendship I have? Thank god he’s so understanding.
And then there’s jack. Oh god, jack, do you know what you do to me? Do you know the heart ache you cause me? Jack, well, jack is just the most beautiful boy in the society, outgoing, but modest, young looking, cute, slim sexy, and fit as hell. Most all the boys in the society would gladly sleep with him if he gave them the chance. I would be one of them, I thought I was getting close to him, I wanted the sex, sure, but I wanted him as a friend to, and I thought I had made a break through… but now I text him, and wait, longing for the reply, any reply. I wait for him, hoping to see him, and say hi, but never see him… I want to be with him so much, but it’s like he just doesn’t care about me, just not interested… is there anyone??? Anyone at all…
Well yes. There is, there’s Tim, my poor dear Tim. As beautiful as jack, as friendly as mark, the best boy I’ve ever known, the boy I gave what’s left of my heart to, who has it with him, keeping safe, I hope. But how would I know? Tim, my boyfriend, the one I love but cannot be with, the one I dream of but cannot see, the one I long to hear, but dare not call. Curse his parents, why can’t they let us be together? All I have is one emotional and heart rendering letter on average of every 2 weeks… long awaited, yet read and reread inside an hour. So little from one so loved, if 15 pages can be called little…
I hate to call Tim a complication, it doesn’t do him justice, but sometimes, only sometimes, I can’t help wondering if my life would be better if we had never met. For all the love he gives me, he also, unintentionally causes me so much pain, and no doubt he can say the same for me… but he has his friends at school, and I, I have a longing in my body I cannot satisfy. The virgin longing for sex, but the one I love cannot provide, he’s underage, however willing. And I can’t see him regardless, yet every time I so much as touch someone else, however much Tim might forgive me, however much people tell me he’ll never know, I’LL know. I can’t do it, I want to, but I can’t betray my boyfriend. So I’m stuck here, torn in 2… reaching out, but not touching anyone, a longing in my body I cannot satisfy, a longing in my heart I fear to lose, for without Tim, I truly have no one, no one who cares, no one who loves me, who knows me, who knows my story and wants it to continue.
Oh god, what is it with me. Am I truly so retarded, so ugly and boring that no one is interested in me? Why do I always feel like the lump of wood among gems? Why is it even surrounded by gay boys, I can’t relax. Why can’t I let myself out, why can’t I come clean?
Someone once told me, or maybe I read it “what’s the point in living if you can’t feel alive?” I can remember the last time I felt alive, and that makes it worse, that I can recall vividly the only times I ever felt like I was a person, and not some machine with a flair for law and strategy games. The last time jack ever spoke to me, when we hugged before going our separate ways, when Tim kissed me good bye on the platform, before I boarded the train, little knowing it was going to carry me away from him for an entire year, at least.
I sit here alone, tears in my eyes, and the soft ethereal voices of the Libera Choir in my ears, and thinking, where have I gone wrong, could I have made my life any better, could it possibly be any worse? No to both I feel.
At least, if I had never met both eothain and Tim, I would never have known the love, never known what I am missing out on, and would at least been content with computer games ands masturbation. But now I find even kissing better than masturbation, and long to find out how good anal sex really is. Will I ever get the opportunity? I don’t think so. Eothain split with me, for reasons neither of us need to say, and Tim… I myself cast the die that caused our separation. And something deep in my heart tells me I’ll never see him again.
I look forward, and all I see is blackness, no future, no plans no life stretching out before me. I never have… what does it mean? Early death? To end a lifetime if suffering, and a year of utter pain and despair, only briefly punctured by time of such happiness and joy as can never be repeated.
Recently I feel like I’m being torn in two, my body and my mind struggling over what’s left of my heart, and slowly killing me in the process.
Oh no, an email from Greg. I’ve never mentioned Greg before; he’s a 14 yr old American boy (what is it with me and 14 yr olds?) who comes to me for help. He sees me as some kind of big brother type person, and I have to admit, I encouraged him. I like helping people, especially boys, I’ve always had a soft spot for boys in distress, and maybe a leftover from wishing someone could have been there to help me. Greg asks me questions on stuff like puberty and love, but he isn’t the only one, people think I’m wise and all-knowing, but why come to me? I’m only 18, what makes them think my advice is any better than Timmy’s or real councilors? Just because I can listen and understand doesn’t make me an expert. Do they think I’m strong enough to bear their troubles as well as my own? I’m not, I’m weak. i'm a coward. It’s like I’m walking through life carrying this massive pack, and each day the pack gets heavier and now I’m falling, falling, into a black pit of despair, stuck on a course of my own choosing and I can’t see any way out of the path fate has laid me. A path I see now only leads to one fatal ending. i'm not strong enough to turn from that path, and i don't see anyway out of it either. I’m trapped, trapped in a life of pain of my own making. All I want is someone to be there for me, to help me, to love me. But the one person who would do that for me can’t, because of me.
Do you ever get the feeling that life has become to much? That your burden is too heavy, and you just fall by the wayside under its weight… that feeling has steadily been growing this last awful year, since that summer when I had to finally admit some home truths to myself.
No offence to any of my online friends. I like you, and respect you, but non of you are any substitute for a hug when I’m feeling down… the help I need non of you can give, but I have no one else to turn to.
Geez… I look back on what I’ve written, and all I see are the self obsessed whining, the self absorbed waffling of a depressed teen. Am I so self centred and selfish to think that any of you care; you have your own problems, your own lives, why would you be interested in mine? No one else is…
Odi et amo: quare id faciam, fortasse requiris.
Nescio, set fieri sentio et excrucior
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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That is kind of hard to answer. I am going to latch onto what I see as the key.
You want someone to solve this all for you.
You are with that perosn every day. Every day. You are he.
The counsellor? Not at all useless. Use a counsellor as a catalyst, even if you cannot speak to her. Work through the counsellor to find out what you need to do.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Think of your situation as if it were a thirst.
You can also go out and get the drink all by yourself, but that is not very comforting now is it.
You are the one that is thirsty, and it is alright if you ask someone for a drink. You might even ask for a piece of ice to make it a bit more palatable... nothing ever wrong in that.
But when all is said and done and you are there with the glass, all filled with a tasty draught... it is you that has to drink it... No one can drink it for you if it is you that wishes to be quenched, at best all anyone can do is steady the glass...
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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blue
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Likes it here |
Registered: August 2004
Messages: 131
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Please do not treat yourself so badly. Please don't think in such absolutes, like "never" or "I must" or "the only." Give yourself the room to think in terms of "sometimes" or "I might" or "some." Yes, you are sad and lonely now. But you will be happier and less lonely, even just a little bit, soon; and maybe you'll find something wonderful in a while. It isn't much comfort when you're sitting alone in your room or standing alone at some party. But you don't have to accept that, being reticent or alone or unhappy. Of course you miss old friends, old loves, or those who are off-limits, or who have rejected you. Of course you'd rather have a loving, friendly relationship and, frankly, some good sex. Something those "love at first sight" stories often fail to mention is that a relationship takes maintenance and communication, even the deepest relationship does. Most relationships build more slowly than love at first sight. And yes, it's tough when not every guy out there wants another guy. Do I sound harsh? I don't mean to be. I've felt the same way at times. Believe me, it does get better.
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i know what you are saying. i know only i can help me, but i cannot see the way. to use XXXs anology, i have a thirst, i have a cup, i don't know where the tap is.
my biggest problem, and the one that causes me the most pain, but also the most love, is tim, and his parents. and here, i cannot help myself. no one can. who would intervene on our behalf? who would speak up to his parents for us, and act as a go between? we already know, they will not listen to us, least of all me.
if i could just see where my life is going, just know that it will change up some point... but it is long since i had any hope.
"hope fades, into the world of night. through shadows falling, out of memories and time"
i sometimes wonder if the only way people will like me is if i stop being me, and try to be someone else. its not what i want, i spent the last summer elling myself at uni, i can come out, and finally be myself... that hasn't happened. even now, i hide myself. i tell you i'm aden, and i'd prefer to be aden, but my real name is Adrian. i hate it. i hate the name, and i hate the person it represents. adrian was - is - someone who went to school, did well, did all his work and homework, never got in trouble, but didn't have any friends, who came home everyday and played on his computer, and read. and later went on the interent and played games... he wasn't happy... i don't think he ever knew happiness, but he was content, i guess, not knowing how good life could be. last year, i call it the worst year of my life, but one reason for that was because i did discover friendship, and happiness, and now, having neither, i feel their loss more keenly, and suddenly the games don't seem as fun anymore, the internet less interesting. i tried to be someone who was "kool" who went out with mates to clubs and cinema, i tried to be Aden, and put the geek image behind me. i lost my glasses and switched to contacts, and it was a start... but whever i went, people saw only adrian, and aden only really existed online. now its not quite as bad, there are people here who don't know my real name is adrian, and just call me aden, and i like it. but somehow, a bit of adrian seems to get through, no matter what i do.
Odi et amo: quare id faciam, fortasse requiris.
Nescio, set fieri sentio et excrucior
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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First, in the UK, you can BE any name you desire just by adopting it and telling people that you will use it. But you can also make a "Statutory Declaration" of the new name to ensure simplicity with (eg) passport applications. So. You ARE Aden.
Second, Aden doesn't wear glasses. A small point ofr some and a huge point for others.
Now comes the hard part. Aden IS whoeevr he ewants to be. He IS that perosn by actively BEING that perosn. So you have to indulge in a little role play. Define in your heart who Aden is. And portray him thus, even if it is "not yet factual". it will become factual.
Let me illustrate a little: In 1979 I was a "baby salesman" and I went on my first ever sales training course. We had to give a presentation. I was so scared I dried up and ran out of the room. I made a decision that day. "no-one will ever be able to embarrass me in publkic again. I am now a 100% professional presenter."
It was not the truth when I said it. It was not the truth at the end of the week when I gave my next presentation, but it was getting there. Today I make a reasonable amount of money by creatoing and delivering presentations that I sell to the attendees for a reasonable fee per head. And I am very good indeed and unfazed by questions from the floor, hecklers, audience sizes and types, mechanical disasters, the lot.
Inside I am shy as anything, and I cringe in social situations. Outside I have a smooth and urbane veneer that allows me to be good socially.
At school I was as Adrian is. It wasn't too great. But I have survived, and those who know me only socially think of me as happy, outgoing and positive.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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blue
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Likes it here |
Registered: August 2004
Messages: 131
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You're Aden or Adrian or whoever you let yourself be. Who you are is not defined by who others think you are. Who you are isn't merely your outward appearance. Don't hate your outer self. For sure, don't hate your inner self, and don't give up on yourself.
Alright, so there are things about yourself you don't like. You can work on them. Maybe some of them aren't so bad.
Did I understand you to say you haven't come out yet, at uni.? Maybe that would help you feel better?
Rejection, lost chances, loneliness? Sure. Those are hard, even if some memories are bittersweet.
The boy you're unable to be with? Are you both prepared to wait however long it takes for him to be old enough? Is that fair to him or to you, to wait? You may not want to, but maybe you should move on, both of you. I'm sorry if that sounds unbearable. But an age difference in your teens is much more significant in terms of maturity than it is later, when both are old enough.
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Are you sure you're not my little brother? What you're describing (except for being the head of your class in high school) is pretty much exactly what i experienced in my first year of college, except there was no LGBT union, and i didn't know anyone else who was gay. And Boy howdy! do i ever know how it feels to be separated from the one you love...so while miserable, your experience is far from unique.
I think your point about knowing love and so feeling it's loss more keenly is valid...sometimes ignorance is a helpful thing. But truly, would you really want to give up that experience if you had the choice? Somehow i doubt it.
So what to do about this? When i was truly miserable in college, i got so busy with all kinds of stuff that i didn't have time to be alone and miserable--I edited the school newspaper, i danced ballet till i was completely exhausted and didn't have the energy for anything but dinner and bed, i took art classes i didn't need, but enjoyed taking...anything to fill my hours so i wouldn't get depressed. On the outside, i suppose i looked busy and happy and so on...but i was a mess inside. Still, it kept me from thinking about that razor i kept in my kit too much... And when it all got to be too much, i'd go sit in my one really good friend's room and watch tv and just be with her...we didn't talk...just drank hot tea and were, or we each did homework and didn't talk.
I will say the same as all the others here have said: life gets better as you go along.
cheers,
aj
"I promise not to try not to fuck with your mind/ I promise not to mind if you go your way and i go mine/promise not to lie if i'm looking you right in your eye/promise not to try not to let you down."
--Eve6
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you guys are all to good for me :-[
and thanks to everyone who emailed as well, believe me, its appreciated.
aj, my trouble is, i don't dare fill up my hours like you did, in case i need them to work, but right now, with my comouter probolems, there are long periods of time when all i can do is sit and listen to music. and my favourite music isn't the osrt that will uplift oyu when you're depressed... quite the opposite, the aforementioned etheral voices of the libera choir, or the soothing strains of Enya. is only when i stop i think that thing get too much, i realise how much i'm missing, how much i've lost.
Odi et amo: quare id faciam, fortasse requiris.
Nescio, set fieri sentio et excrucior
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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"lost"? Misplaced for the moment, perhaps.
Step back 2 paces and look at that whcih you have:- A university place at a good university for a good degree
- a young man who loves you, though you have to be apart for a while
- People who actually understand you and who care
- Access, when you need it, to a decent counsellor
- The ability to be, at last, Aden, the young man you are
- No reason any more to hide ever again, unless you choose to hide
- The total chance to reinvent yourself
Do I need to go on?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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blue
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Likes it here |
Registered: August 2004
Messages: 131
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Aden,
Sometimes we are so stuck looking at a problem from one angle. We think the solution must be somewhere along that path. But really, we have to step back and turn it completely around, or turn ourselves around, to look at it from the right angle. Then we can see the solution.
You sound like me in college (uni.) but with a couple of important differences. I'm trying not to be so "me-oriented" in my posts. Maybe you've seen my replies to Eothain on this forum. Those say a lot, so I won't repeat them here.
You are at least a little more comfortable being gay than I was then.
You have had at least a couple of relationships, whether you did anything sexual or not. I hadn't.
Like you, instead of focusing on what I had and how to improve it, I focused on what I didn't have, what I didn't understand, and what I had experienced was negative: a trauma and two unrequited...loves. No boyfriends, no fun sex to see it could be good, and girls didn't attract me sexually past high school, and hadn't much before. When I realized I was gay, that fed the negatives, and the other unrelated negatives then that I had no control over. My grades (my marks) went down in a spiral to match how confused I was. I even contemplated suicide, but didn't attempt it (thank God). I lost a nice academic scholarship and was eventually asked to leave university, i.e., I essentially flunked out. It was quite a while before I completed an associate's degree at a junior college; I'll get back and complete a bachelor's degree when I can.
What I'm trying to say is, you have a number of good things going for you, if you'll just turn your head around and see them. You see, I know what it feels like to be unhappy with yourself and think there's no happy, shiny future for you, with love and friendship and all the other things you want from life. But I promise you there are good friends, and love, and a bright future for you, though perhaps not on the path you expect.
One last point: I spent years thinking friends and loved ones didn't care as much about me as I did about them. I walled off my feelings and didn't let people get beyond that point, for fear of getting hurt emotionally. I thought if they knew I was gay, they'd all turn away. After all, the few times I'd wanted to be with friends sexually, I'd always found they didn't share that feeling. Never mind that I could accept and stand up for possibly-gay friends, I thought people wouldn't want me. I am now finding that some friends were truer than I knew, than I could've imagined.
It may be that you are being too hard on yourself, like I was, judging yourself more harshly than you would others.
As Timmy said, you have much going for you. And you have the chance to reinvent yourself in university, to be the person you want to be. Grab that chance with both hands. Don't worry if you don't always live up to your ideas of who you want to be, you'll get there, and none of us are perfect. -- That isn't cause for sadness, it's just a challenge so we'll have something to reach for, a way to grow.
~Blue
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Aden or Adrian? that is the question.
It's all about who you want to be, who you see yourself as. Personaly i'm more like Adrian, i get good marks, i read, i don't get in trouble etc... I have friends though; not many. Most people who meet me like or at least tolerate me because i'm honest and accepting. And i would probably be a bit intimidated by Aden because he goes to clubs and bars and movies and i'm kinda quiet and shy that way but that's just me.
Aden goes to movies, Aden goes to bars and clubs, Aden wears contacts not glasses.
Adrian goes to school, Adrian dosn't get in trouble, Adrian's life is...how do i say this? stuffy.
Perhaps you should consider a combination of the two, doing good in school isn't a bad thing, neither does avoiding trouble but movies are nice too and i've been known to enjoy a good beer also, while i have an intolerable phobia toward putting something on the surface of my eyeball, contacts make most people look better, although not always.
I'm not really sure what to say except do what makes YOU happy.
You know, i hate my given name its soo...not cool sounding. About three years ago i got people to start calling me Davis because i thought and acutaly still do think that it's a very cool name. But i felt stupid when people called me Davis because it's not really my name. I was taught that a name was one of the greatest gifts you recieve in life. Think about it, at birth you are given a word, one word that defines you, no other word can do that. And the nice thing about names like Adrian and my name is that they aren't particularly common thus making this one word that is my name feel exclusive to me alone.
Meh, call yourself whatever you want, pretend to be whoever you want. It really dosn't matter what you present to the wide world because most people are too wrapped up in appearing cool to notice anyway. what you must realize though is that through it all you can't change who you are on the inside and all the people in your life who love you or who ever will truly love you, love the person on the inside.
Take care,
Pyro.
Do what you love, changing the world is incidental.
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they said it would get better, they said i had to wait, and things would look up.
but they were wrong
they said you're at the bottom, it cannot get any worse
they were wrong
they said you just had to wait, and he will come to you, the special one, the one who will make all tihngs right. and in his coming you can rejoice
i'm still waiting, how long does the wait go on?
when i first posted here, i was at a point so low, i didn;t think i could get any lower. fool. why should fate care what she throws your way? no one else seems to.
i have friends. i can kid myself into believing i have friends. they're all great people, and i'll miss them when i'm gone. they're all there for me, but all i see is words on a screen. words have emotion, words can hurt and heal. but actions speak louder words. and these friends are all so far away. of my 2 most supportive people, one is heading for thailand, the other in canada. they know who they are. could they be any further from me when i need them most?
friends... friends in the flesh. not just someone who you can talk to, but someone who can be there for you, cheer you up, and hug you when you're down. i thought i had 2. i must have been mad. why would people like me? maybe i have 1. i don;t know, i never see him. the other? he can't be. he left me, abandoned me. he won;t answer me, he knows i care, hew held out a dagger, and i walked myself onto it.
love... i knew it once, but every day that passes my memories fade, images i lose, the sound of his laughter, the sight of his smile... its so far away now. he was the one. the only one. he cared, i know he did. i don;t have him anymore. i used to be able to write. i can't do that anymore. i have nothing, no way of talking to him. he's taken from me.
i'm alone adrift, lost in a world of hurt and pain. i'm lonely and sad. my music, only reminds me of what i've lost. my games no longer amuse. my work doesn't interest me. all i want is that feeling once more. to know there is someone close to me who cares. some one who wants to be wih me, someone who loves me. i used to be happy when i was alone. but then i felt his lips against mine. his arms around me, and i can find happiness no longer. i'm desperate. i'll take any love i can get, however short. just please, someone near me, someone reach out, let me know you care.
am i really so ugly that you don't want to be close? am i so boring, so uncool that you don;t want to be with me? why do you always leave me alone? i just want to be with you, to be happy, is that to much to ask?
i'm near the end now, there may be a light at the end of my tunnel, but its too far away for me to see, all i know is there;s a black pit opening before my feet, and soon i'll be falling...
too many times, i've been rejected, left behind, alone unwanted, tagging along, unasked, uncared for. now i've lost something precious to me. i lost jack. i know now he doesn't care. maybe he never did. maybe i was asking too much of him. maybe i was forcing himself on him. he said i couldn't love him, but i did, i swear it, i did.
mark, i know you wanted to help, you wanted me to talk, but words aren't always enough, sometimes the pain goes to deep.
tim, i love you, i loved you, i cared, i wanted you to be happy, and with you i was happy, but some barriers cannot be crossed. i'm sorry, so very sorry, but sometimes things get too much. sometimes, when you try and wait, you get moved along, but all thats in front of me is the abyss. you, of all the people i've ever known wanted to be with me. you wrre the only one i loved who ever loved me in return. i wish i could have been with you, or seen you again before it ends.
jack... oh god jack... do you know the hurt oyu cause me when oyu're near? the pain i feel when you're away?
which ever way i turn i'm faced with pain. i can't find my way out anymore. maybe i'm not meant to. but i'm not strong enough to carry it all anymore.
all you people who laughed at me behind my back, all of you who ignored me and let me pass. all you who turned people against me, i gues you were right. i am just a loser. it wasn't your fault i had no friends. i see that now, it was mine.
sometimes the pain is too large, the burden to great. sometimes it all gets too much, sometimes you just wished you didn't care. but i can't stop being who i am, i can't stop loving who i do, i can't make myself be liked by those i might like to care. whoever stacked the deck against me, i surrender now, i turn in my hand. you win. its over.
i have nothing left now. i've lost once more. been betrayed too many times.
Odi et amo: quare id faciam, fortasse requiris.
Nescio, set fieri sentio et excrucior
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I don't care if you hate me for this, Aden. Because I am damned if I am going to lose you.
I have read this note and seen it as a potential suicide risk. So I have called the counselling service at your university, given them your name and room number and said I am worried about you and your possible actions.
So, like it or not, the cavalry is coming. It may already have come.
I know your computer is still "alive" and assume that it was you who blinked online and offline on MSN just now.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Which is a helpful emotion.
He is depressed, for sure. And drives himslef into it deeper. But he is nagry. Anger produces adrenaline. Adenlaine is useful in depression.
He is talking to me on MSN
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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blue
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Likes it here |
Registered: August 2004
Messages: 131
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Angry? Better angry than in despair. Better to get some help to get better, than to be dead.
It is good to know that some things might be actionable.
That signature, I don't know Latin, but what I can make an educated guess of, is frightening in itself.
I'm looking for a translation, source, and author.
Be thou not in black despair, oh Youth.
No idea where I remember that from, or if it's a synthesis of my own.
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blue
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Likes it here |
Registered: August 2004
Messages: 131
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OK, Thanks to Google, some insight into BP's signature line:
http://romanhistorybooksandmore.freeservers.com/l_nsgill3.htm
Odi et Amo, by Caius Valerius Catullus, a.k.a. Catullus, from Carmen 85;
I hate and I love. Why do I do it, perchance you might ask?
I don't know, but I feel it happening to me and I'm burning up.
Although, from the article's discussion, it's more like "I am crucified" instead of "I'm burning up."
I don't know Latin, but what I could guess from Romance languages, eek. So I searched. I'm amazed, and thankful, to find something that quickly.
I hope it's not too late for Aden. Life is not so black as one might at times suppose. Although I've been in that valley of shadows, I didn't choose to stay there.
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Good job, Timmy! *applause* You did the right thing. Not having talked to him since seeing that note, and knowing he was severely depressed, you were entirely justified in your thinking and took action. Good on you!
cheers!
aj
"I promise not to try not to fuck with your mind/ I promise not to mind if you go your way and i go mine/promise not to lie if i'm looking you right in your eye/promise not to try not to let you down."
--Eve6
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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This is a translation of the signature line.
Odi et amo: quare id faciam, fortasse requiris.
Nescio, set fieri sentio et excrucior
To hate and to love: why this visage, perhaps desire,
Not knowing, to gain experience and torment...
Albeit the punctuation may have various variations the meaning remains the same.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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What so many young people fail to realise is that suicide has only a one way ticket. You don't get to the terminus and get on the next train back if you didn't like it.
What is more you also leave a lot of people who love you in a state where they are furious at your for your actions, even furious enough to start to hate you.
Not a way I would want to be remembered. Especially by the boy who loved me, in his case.
He and I spent a long time chatting last night.
He is not anywhere near out of his depression, and he needs real help. That does not mean we should stop because we are unqualified, but he actully needs good face to face guidance froma perosn who empathises with his situation.
There is nothing we can do to contact the boy he loves, the more so since there are dangers of accusations being made against him by the boy's parents if his presence becomes intrusive. That is a thing he has to become reconcilded with and content about. Love waits. If it is not love it will not.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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cchd
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Getting started |
Registered: May 2004
Messages: 16
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It's hard to understand what pressures might lead someone to think about suicide, let alone go through with it.
Speaking from sad personal experience, having a friend decide that life isn't worth living (and succeeding) is something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. On a good day I think I can understand, but most of the time I'm just so angry. Even just writing this is hard and it's been five years.
Please, if you think life is so bad, try to talk to someone. If you don't think your family will listen, talk to a friend - even a "stranger" on the net is better than no one.
In memory of a dear friend.
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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I only just read this now.
Your fight is far from over though, Aden. I will be around as much as I can, once back in Tasmania I'll be able to give you more of the time you deserve, though. But right now there isn't much I can do about the fact that my plane departs in 12 hours and 40 minutes, I'm kind of pretty lost myself as it is, though for me it is just more sentimentality rather than depression. I hope your depression can evolve into something more easy to deal with. Don't give up hope, though, there is always hope, even for situations like ours.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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the translation i have is:
I hate and I love: why I do so you may well ask.
I do not know, but I feel it happen and am in agony.
Odi et amo: quare id faciam, fortasse requiris.
Nescio, set fieri sentio et excrucior
Caius Valerius Catullus
Odi et amo: quare id faciam, fortasse requiris.
Nescio, set fieri sentio et excrucior
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angry doesn't come close to how i felt last night.
now i'm just annoyed, but last night i was furious. and not least at having the resident tutors wake me up at 11.45 only 15 minutes after i'd cried myself to sleep. they thoughti looked worried, bearing in mind i'd just been woken up (and i sleep naked) and i'm half naked with a complete stranger in my room... i was also trying to work out what had happened. i didn't think timmy could move so fast. or would have.
i thought you wanted to help me, not make it worse. now i have to tell more lies, explain to the amazing number of people who saw the residents tutors knock at my door late at night what they were doing.
i don't need strangers to talk to. if i want that, i can talk to people on MSN. i need someone to help me. but no one can, no one can change who and what i am.
Odi et amo: quare id faciam, fortasse requiris.
Nescio, set fieri sentio et excrucior
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i spent my whole life waiting, and when something finally happened, it got taken from me. all i can do is hope and wait and feel lonely. but i long ago lost all hope, and i don't see the point in waiting for things to get even worse.
maybe i want a one way ticket. what have i got here to come back to?
Odi et amo: quare id faciam, fortasse requiris.
Nescio, set fieri sentio et excrucior
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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the Black Prince wrote:
> i spent my whole life waiting, and when something finally happened, it got taken from me.
When something good happened you rushed at it like a bull at a gate. You insisted on rushing at it despite all the advice to hold back. And you put the young man in a very awkward position. I agree it was with his total co-operation and that he, too, is arhcitect of these circumstances, but you are older and allegedly wiser. So the entire circumstances of your separation are your responsibility.
What you are doing now is "poor me" and also digging your pit of misery deeper because of that. Get a ladder and climb out of it. Leave it there. You can always climb back in and be miserable there whenever you get too happy.
the Black Prince wrote:
> maybe i want a one way ticket. what have i got here to come back to?
You have Tim to come back to. Except once you go you don't get to come back.
Oh yes. If Tim decides after all this theatricality that he cannot possibly love a theatrical whiner (which I know you are not, but you are certainly protraying yourself as such) then there will be others to love. Different loves.
Time to get hold of yourself and decide what you want in your life. And then to grasp it firmly. But in doing this do not put the boy you love at risk.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I will do it again, despite your annoyance and fury.
One day you will realise that I helped.
Hell will freeze over before I stop helping you. Unless, of course, you make such help impossible.
What I refuse to do is to have you on my conscience. Or on anyone else's conscience.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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blue
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Likes it here |
Registered: August 2004
Messages: 131
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For translations, thank you both.
Aden, I am glad you are still alive to give a translation.
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blue
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Likes it here |
Registered: August 2004
Messages: 131
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Aden,
You wrote what anyone would see as a suicide note and a desperate cry for help and intervention. Alright, so you cried yourself to sleep and you were roused out naked and embarrassed. Ask yourself, would you really have felt better if no one had noticed? No, you would have felt your fears and despair were confirmed. You pleaded for help, and when you got it, you claim you didn't want it? Tough. Someone cared enough to help. Remember that.
You felt so bad you wanted to die, and now you feel you must lie about why? You wanted to cover up the why, so no one would ever know, eh? If you felt so strongly, does it matter if people find out why? Never mind about them and what they might think. It's far more important that you do not lie to yourself.
You have a chance to get help. Get help. Let others help you. Let yourself be helped. Help them to help you. Help yourself.
You are not condemned or hopeless or lost unless you make yourself so. Grab the chance to be happy and healthy with everything you've got and hang on for dear life.
Quit torturing yourself so about what you don't have, and focus on the things that you do have that are worthwhile and the things that are reachable. There is more good in life and more good in you than you are letting yourself see. Take off the black blindfold and earplugs and see and hear what is good in life, and work to find more or make more.
Yes, I know full well what it's like not to have things you want, to live with regrets and depression. But even when I get down or move backward, I shake it off and more forward and upward. Slowly, bit by bit, it gets better.
Please see that you can do the same.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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the translation you offer has been injected with a bit of creative license.
A good try.... yet significantly askew....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Firstly, you dont know alot about waiting....
Your recently past actions prove that...
You expound about being torn away from your true love yet in your origional post at the top of this thread you announce your desire to shag another person.....
Well sir, that is NOT love..... it is lust.... and considering the circumstances of the incident previous.... lust of the worse kind.
Get a grip, stop whinning and if you love this young person then you will wait until the time and circumstances are correct for its fruition. And by wait I mean wait... not lust for others in the interim.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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i can't stop my body lusting after someone else, no matter how much the heart loves one person. my mind feels like its torn in two, i don't know which to go. i havn't really given in.. except once, and i was drunk, and it was nothing more than a kiss, buti felt so guilty afterwards, i actually begged tim's forgiveness.. in my head.. i couldn't speak to him... i wish i could.
i have one friend who suggests maybe i should give up on him, and be free and single, as so much of my pain comes from wanting to be with him, but not being able to, and not knowing if he still wants to be with me. having a relationship in which we can no longer actually relate to one another. this firend is mark, btw. who i mentioned before, i showed him this topic. others here have suggested indulging the body, because tim won't know, but i couldn't do that...
i guess when it comes down to it, what i am is lonely more than anything. if i had some close friends i could be with, being without tim would be easier to bear, the waiting wouldn't seem so long.
Odi et amo: quare id faciam, fortasse requiris.
Nescio, set fieri sentio et excrucior
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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the Black Prince wrote:
> i guess when it comes down to it, what i am is lonely more than anything. if i had some close friends i could be with, being without tim would be easier to bear, the waiting wouldn't seem so long.
Make them. One of the things university allows you to do is to forget the past and create the future. So make them. And create it.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Well, actually you can stop lusting after boys other than you so called declaired love of your life.
I am not saying you cant look... That is quite impossible...
But!!!!! When you put what you see into words and then elaborate yet further about the possible encounters that you desire with these nondescript persons you cross the line... And this is a line that is totaly within the realm of your control.
Love comes with a price... actually many prices at many different levels... One of those prices is fidelity...
Try some, you just might feel a bit better...
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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