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on my fav online home, the Total War Centre, gay is currently a very popular theme, with gay rights, sexuality, and gay marriage arguments all going strong, between the liberals the conservatives the catholics and the idiots on the board.
with 4000+ members, and only 5 openly gay, and 6 openly bi, we have things stacked against us...
anyways, one of the members quoted an interesting comment in a thread about what makes you gay...
typically, the conservatives were all going on about people choosing to be gay, and the people who actually had experiance were countering with the born theory, i know i never chose...
and a guy called Aristophanes came up with this gem
"It is quite possible that intelligence plays a great part in this; from what I have heard, gays and bisexuals are smarter/more creative, on average, than other people... What if being 'gay' is merely manifestation of high enough intellectual awareness to be able to question what others take as 'given'"
and i thought about it... and i thought about the gay people i know... and strangely he's right... almost all the gay people i know ARE more intelligent than the average person... is there a link... i wonder..
Odi et amo: quare id faciam, fortasse requiris.
Nescio, set fieri sentio et excrucior
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13801
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there must be some stupid ones though.
Right, which of us is stupid and gay?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Eothain
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Likes it here |
Location: Rohan!
Registered: April 2004
Messages: 108
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*raises hand*
I took A/S chemistry, that was pretty stupid.
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eothain!!! you were the one of the peoplei was thinking of when i saw this theory, (you and dreamer) you're not stupid by any means
Odi et amo: quare id faciam, fortasse requiris.
Nescio, set fieri sentio et excrucior
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Ok...an example to prove Timmy's assertion about there being dumb gays: Log Cabin Republicans.
cheers!
AJ
"I promise not to try not to fuck with your mind/ I promise not to mind if you go your way and i go mine/promise not to lie if i'm looking you right in your eye/promise not to try not to let you down."
--Eve6
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Gays typically place themselves into an intelectual plane above straights.
It is all a part of the "patent leather Joan Crawford *come f@ck me pump wearing, left hand on hip with thumb forward, right hand up with hand flung limply back palm up, one quarter twist at the hips to the left, head thrown back again to the left, and a sharp, forthright, ever so queenly foot stomp and a prompt march away with a lace hanky at the nose while saying.... "why doesnt the world just simply adore me??"" syndrome.
In reality, one gets what one deserves wether it be from accolade or retrubution, effort or self pitty.
Opinion from outsiders will always be slanted, nothing will or even CAN change that because outsiders almose never venture into our world for fear of loving too much what they discover there. Those few that are brave enough to enter our world never go back to their own and therefore relent to the discovery of their true destiny.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13801
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what is a log cabin republican?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Log Cabin republicans are a bunch of masochistic, "please let us eat the scraps that fall off the right wing table" gay idiots that align themselves with the republican party over here. They realize that they are the object of general loathing within their own party, yet they continue to champion the causes of the very party that oppresses and discriminates against gays in general--including themselves.
Oh...do i sound a little bitter? 'scuse me.
cheers!
aj
"I promise not to try not to fuck with your mind/ I promise not to mind if you go your way and i go mine/promise not to lie if i'm looking you right in your eye/promise not to try not to let you down."
--Eve6
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13801
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It is a huge challenge if your basic political beliefs are not congruent with another party, though?
In the UK I do not support, now, any party. My vote is always "least worst". But i support the socialists less than the others, if you follow me. "Because I am gay" is not a reason to vote. The rest of my life is a reason to vote: the other parts, the parts that want particular things to happen or not to happen.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I think in the UK you have a few more choices regarding what party to vote for...it's not one of two parties, right? And the difference between the parties in the US is fairly clear cut when it comes to supporting gay rights--the democrats do, and the republicans don't. To be honest, i have to give the LC republicans a little credit: they did withold their endorsement for Bush secondary to his promotion of the antigay marriage constitutional amendment. that took some guts, so i guess i can't ream them totally.
cheers!
aj
"I promise not to try not to fuck with your mind/ I promise not to mind if you go your way and i go mine/promise not to lie if i'm looking you right in your eye/promise not to try not to let you down."
--Eve6
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13801
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we have 2 basic parties and some fringe wannabes and ho hopers. The difference is also clear cut, but merging, with regard to gay rights.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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This year i got to vote in a federal election for the first time. I was really excited to do so at first, i was all full of the "your vote could change the nation" propaganda. Well anyway, in Canada we have three main parties (Liberal, Conservative and NDP) the NDP gets it's fair share of votes but is likely to never win. The liberals currently hold a minority government. Anyway, i watched the campaning stuff on tv. i did some research (i already like following politcs so it didn't take that much work.) but anyway, i was shocked to find that there is very little difference between conservatives and liberals on many issues. So the choice came down to voting for the lesser of the two evils. choice A) the conservative - a bunch of rednecked, oil guzzling, bible thumping, pro-life, homophobes. or choice B) the liberals - a bunch of money wasting, incompitant "we sorta kinda maybe tollerate gays... just vote for us because we're not the conservatives." party.
Anyway, getting back to the Black Prince's orgininal statements; I read in my sociology text book, and i'm not sure if i already quoted this on this forum so i hope i'm not being a stupid gay guy and repeating it again  )
but in Greece thousands of years ago it was cool to be gay, well, if you were a guy that is. Apparently the general feeling was that women are inferior and the only reason one would have sex with a woman is to make a baby, "real men" would prefur other men as partners. cool huh?
take care,
Pyro
Do what you love, changing the world is incidental.
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timmy??? what do you mean only 2 parties...!
the Uk has the conservatives... right wing on/off gay supporters
the labour party - technically left wing, but "new labour" is more right wing these days too. they are pro gay rights... in terms of equality and all, but not especially pro gay...
and we have the liberal party, which varies around the centre someone. they are pro gay
there's also the BNP which is extreme right wing... but mainly ostracised because of its known racist views, and the slightly less extremist UKIP which is the 4 most popular party, having stoeln the people who would support the BNP but for its very racist image. they are both anti gay.
we have a ew other parties... but apart from those parties, and the nationalist parties in scotland and wales they are pretty insignificant. unless your voting for the local council, a vote for the green party of british communist party is a wasted vote. guess you could say the same for BNP really, though they hold quite a few local councils.
UKIP on the otherhand (UK Independance Party) was actually 3rd largest party in the EU elections... it will be interested to see how they do in a general election. i don;t believe BNP have ever won any seats, but UKIP actualyl stand a chance.
Odi et amo: quare id faciam, fortasse requiris.
Nescio, set fieri sentio et excrucior
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Zambezi
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Toe is in the water |
Location: Various (!)
Registered: January 2004
Messages: 40
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Timmy... please... the Liberal Democrats are not fringe wannabes. They are in government through coalition executives in both Scotland and Wales, and count openly gay parliamentarians amongst their number. Having once stood through an entire LGB meeting at a party conference with one of their hands on my arse I can vouch for this!
The Liberal Democrats are the only mainstream UK political party which is wholly committed in spirit as well as manifesto to equality for lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgendered people.
If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving isn't for you.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13801
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I know you're committed to the liberals. If they ever become electable again we will still have two main parties. Liberals and Labour, with the conservatives as part of "the other lot" for decades, perhaps even a century.
Even so we have a basic mainstrema two party system, and have had for years. Currently parties such as the Liberals make very little difference to main government. It could also be said that the tories don't either.
The point was that we are actiually very like the USA though we pretend not to be.
Nice to see you here. Not seen you for ages and ages.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Well...it was a bit more complicated than that. My understanding is that it was older men "mentoring" younger boys...with the idea being that the older man helps the boy grow up wise and thoughtful. I saw "Alexander" last night, and Aristotle had some things to say about it in the film. If you haven't seen it, you should-- it's the first mainstream film i've ever seen that dealt honestly with same sex relationships in history...the first time i've ever seen anyone in a mainstream film openly say that patroclus and achilles were lovers, the first one to ever grant equal weight to a man's love for another man. It was clear from the film that while Alexander took wives, his great love was for his friend, hyphastian. It was a great film on a lot of levels, greek lawyers be damned.
cheers!
aj
"I promise not to try not to fuck with your mind/ I promise not to mind if you go your way and i go mine/promise not to lie if i'm looking you right in your eye/promise not to try not to let you down."
--Eve6
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13801
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There is, in Hampton Court Palace [http://www.hrp.org.uk/history/default.asp?sectID=4&id=4] a tapestry depicting Alexander kissing Hephaiston. The Journeyman and I failed to hear how the guide explained it when we visited there a few short years back.
We suspect it was not announced as a "gay kiss". But the topic is very clearly displayed, and headlined under the tapestry.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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may not be necessary to remind people of this, but it was a Liberal Democrat peer, Lord Lester of Hearn Hill who introduced and wrote the Civil Partnership Bill, which became an Act on november 18th 2004.
i might add, just for name dropping noteworthiness that my Law personal tutor, Dr matthew Weait, before accepting his current job, this year at keele, was parliamentary legal officer to Lord Lester, and actually helped him write the bill!! matthew also has given many lectures on gender sexuality and the law. i couldn't have found a better tutor if i asked for one! lol.
Odi et amo: quare id faciam, fortasse requiris.
Nescio, set fieri sentio et excrucior
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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If it is anything like it is here... It is nothing more than a bone thrown into the dog kennel.
There is nothing quite like being equal but separate. In reality, it is a registry in inequality.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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This section in particular is very interesting...
Civil partnership agreements
70
Civil partnership agreements unenforceable
(1)
A civil partnership agreement does not under the law of England and Wales
have effect as a contract giving rise to legal rights.
(2)
No action lies in England and Wales for breach of a civil partnership
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agreement, whatever the law applicable to the agreement.
(3)
In this section and section 71 “civil partnership agreement” means an
agreement between two people—
(a)
to register as civil partners of each other—
(i)
in England and Wales (under Part 2),
35
(ii)
in Scotland (under Part 3),
(iii)
in Northern Ireland (under Part 4), or
(iv)
outside the United Kingdom under an Order in Council made
under Chapter 1 of Part 5 (registration at British consulates etc.
or by armed forces personnel), or
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(b)
to enter into an overseas relationship.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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i believe there is a similar clause in one of the matrimonial acts. it basically means that a civil partnership is not a legally binding or enforceable contract under civil law (excluding family law, by precedent). in other words, you can't sue under tort or contract law for a breach of marriage contraqct, you have to go with divorce. (i.e the sections relating to anulment of a partnership agreement.
its the same with marriage. if your partner cheats on you, your only legal redress is to apply for a divorce, technically thats sue for divorce. you can't file a claim for compensation under contract law in the civil courts.
Odi et amo: quare id faciam, fortasse requiris.
Nescio, set fieri sentio et excrucior
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Since I have read the Matrimonial legislation in the UK. I think the issue here is pruely semantic in nature....
If I recall correctly, in the matrimonial acts all referance to couples joined in a life partnership is refered to a "Marrige" or "Matrimony"..
This new legislation referes solely to "Civil Partnerships"
It may be a small difference but in the law, small differences mean wide gaps in perception and implimentation of the percieved intent.
In other words, the wording of the bill may cloud some, and possible all resemblance to equal status to those who are protected under the umbrella of the "marrige Act".
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Here's a question: what's "smart"? (A)Mensa-level IQ or (B) surroundings awareness? either would, at the least, lead to greater empathy for sexual differences and perhaps greater willingness to "try it." You've probably heard the definition of a (U.S.) Democrat as a Republican who's learned to read. However it seems to me that the vast majority of Gay males I've met are more "aware", filled with "factoids" to brighten any conversation, and tend to be more fun to be around. So while "smart" doesn't make you gay, it sure makes Gay a lot more fun. d
"Remember what the Dormouse said:
"Feed your head; feed your head."
--Jefferson Airplane - WHITE RABBIT
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Re: what makes you gay 
