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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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What if 2000-+ years ago the leaders of the Jewish faith were right and Christ wasn't the messiah?
Just wouldn't that be a hoot.....???
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Kind of also knocks Islam out a bit, too.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Isn't that a premise of the Jewish faith? A Messiah was promised them but has not yet arrived. Several analysts of the New Testament have suggested that the Gospels and other writings are designed (among other things) to link Jesus’ life story with the description the Old Testament provides of the Messiah, so that the Jews would recognize Jesus and accept him, too. Wouldn’t THAT have simplified life, now. d
"Remember what the Dormouse said:
"Feed your head; feed your head."
--Jefferson Airplane - WHITE RABBIT
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Well from the Jewish perspective yes,,, but I was refering to the Christian aspect.
What if all this "holier than thou, youre different therefore doomed to hell", all the churchs, all the variations of sects, all the wars fought and all the millions of people killed over the last 2 millinea for the sake of christianity or in the name of christ were all over a frawd, a charlitain who unwittingly let things get out of hand and subsequently bot his ass bitten in the back wash.
Imagine the implications, the irony, a world order caused by nothing more than a con game....
Ho... Ho... Ho.......................
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Picture the scene:
A pleasant peasant lass named Mary is bethroed to a lad named Joseph. [Yussuf, really, of course]
One day a gaudily dressed chap named Gabriel turns up. Now our mary is quite easy on the eye, and gabe is pretty cool too. And gabe, being somewhat streetwise, suggests to Mary that he is an Archangel, and has come to have a chat with her about some Godly stuff.
After a cup of tea and a bit of a fumble Gabe pushes his luck somewhat with the "Hey, babe, you are going to give birth to the son of God" line, but Mary, being a sweet girl, believes him. Yussuf is a bit retarded in matters sexual, so he believes mary when she tells him that an Archangel dropped in for tea, and is OK about the idea that his betrothed is going to give birth to God's number one son.
Well, it was that or lose mary. And she is cute.
Nine months later a very wise inkeeper says "No way will you give birth on MY bedlinen" and points them to a very practical stable.
To be fair, at around this time, a load of silly buggers have cooked up a storm about the coming of the King of the Jews. Herod goes ballistic and gets murderous, and our heroes escape, somehow.
Time passes. The kid is a bit precocious, but pretty much a good bloke, and, after all, mum knows he's God's kid, so he gets the best she and Yussuf can afford.
It's a bit of a worry when he vanishes for a few years before nipping back as a peaceful revolutionary, and things get a bit crazy after that. Everyone liked the idea of the party where the wine ran out and he sorted it out at the well, though.
Sad to say, he pissed the Romans AND the Jews off enough to end up like Spartacus on a cross. Not sure how the rest happened, mind you. But there wasn't any reliable documentation about at the time.
Yup, I reckon the Jews have a point.
See you over a large turkey.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Belief, like beauty, is usually in the eye of the beholder, caused by some inner need. But my inner cynic suggests: follow the money." Someone (and Bartlett's can't seem to tell me who) said, "In the last 2000 years more have died in the name of the Prince of Peace than for any other reason." But it depends on who's saying, "CHARGE, for God and Country!" and where and why, doesn't it? d
"Remember what the Dormouse said:
"Feed your head; feed your head."
--Jefferson Airplane - WHITE RABBIT
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After surviving the crucifixion (which it has to be said was a miraculous thing, although not conclusive proof of divine intervention), he needed to make himself scarce to avoid being arrested again by the Romans.
The Roman Empire stretched a long way westwards but not very far eastwards, so naturally (after bidding farewell to his followers and promising that he would "come again") he headed east, accompanied by Mary Magdalene.
He spent some time in Persia, where he became known as Yuz Asaf (Leader of the Healed), before settling in the Kashmir region of India where he lived to the age of 80. His tomb lies in Srinagar's old town in a building called Rozabal. "Rozabal" is an abbreviation of Rauza Bal, meaning "tomb of a prophet". At the entrance there is an inscription explaining that Yuz Asaf is buried along with another Moslem saint. Both have gravestones which are oriented in North-South direction, according to Moslem tradition. However, through a small opening the true burial chamber can be seen, in which there is the Sarcophagus of Yuz Asaf in East-West (Jewish) orientation.
According to Professor Hassnain, who has studied this tomb, there are carved footprints on the grave stones and when closely examined, carved images of a crucifix and a rosary. The footprints of Yuz Asaf have what appear to be scars represented on both feet, if one assumes that they are crucifixion scars, then their position is consistent with the scars shown in the Turin Shroud (left foot nailed over right). Crucifixion was not practised in Asia, so it is quite possible that they were inflicted elsewhere, such as the Middle East. The tomb is called by some as "Hazrat Issa Sahib" or "Tomb of the Lord Master Jesus". Ancient records acknowledge the existence of the tomb as long ago as 112 AD. The Grand Mufti, a prominent Muslim Cleric, himself has confirmed that Hazrat Isa Sahib is indeed the tomb of Yuz Asaf.
There is also a different story, in the Gospel according to Luke, that instead of going to India he "was taken up into heaven". However, this alternative view is not corroborated by either Matthew or John, or the earliest manuscripts of Mark.
See "Jesus lived in India", a synopsis of the book by Holger Kersten, at http://www.sol.com.au/kor/7_01.htm
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Very true... belief is indeed in the eye of the beholder...
and con men, even ancient con men rely on that fact as insurance of their success.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Again, look to motives. The original disciples were motivated to make their Leader fit the description of the Messiah of the Book (Old Testament) AND of a Roman deity. Is it possible that they spirited his body away, then announced to the world that He was Risen? By now, some 2000 years later, so many people and organizations have so much invested in this story it’s impossible to know the truth, whatever it may have been. And now we’re stuck with whatever the current version is, or be branded (Oh, Terror!) HERETICS, interestingly described (I think) at http://spbaptist.tripod.com/heresy.html just in case you wondered what a Gnostic was (is). Oh – Merry Christmas. d
"Remember what the Dormouse said:
"Feed your head; feed your head."
--Jefferson Airplane - WHITE RABBIT
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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It is, however, a very good set of stories.
So far in all of this we have assumed that there is one bloke at the centre of all of this. But the Middle East was riddled with prophets and snake oil salesmen at that time. There is a thought that our boy was not one bloke at all, but an amalgam of about 50 reasonably decent blokes who wandered around in a period of 100 years or more in that locality and era.
I have always wondered about this fellow God, though. If it was entirely necessary to send his "one and only son" to earth, then what was the entire point of Herod killing a load of babies? If I were God and I had wanted to make sure I was believed in I woudl have had my thunderbolt department working overtime to zap this guy Herod.
Oh you'd have believed in me after that, trust me. Parting the alleged Red Sea (a mistranlation) was nothing compared to a bit of serious godly smiting with thunderbolts.
Even is I'd missed that, Pilate would have been in line for the electrical experience. Best to do it while he was washing his hands for good conductivity, of course.
I did like the concept of Iscariot's guts spilling out. Hmm, someone butchered him, then. Unlikely that they all fell out by themselves, and frankly not a godly punsihment.
How about the guy who nailed my alleged son to the cross? Surely I'd have barbecued him too?
All we had was a bunch of guys who didn't like the Romans much, and tried to rally the populace behind a charismatic leader or set of mini leaders. The "Son of God" but got a bit out of hand at the end, though.
Now why does all this happen inthe Middle East? It seems a pretty barren kind of place to found a few major religions. Or was everyone there totally barking mad? God never turned up in a more temerpate climate. Unless you count a load of golden books(!) ploughed up by a new England farmer. Or is that snake oil, too?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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