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Fear of being Gay  [message #23241] Thu, 30 December 2004 10:16 Go to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800



I've been chatting to a friend. And things are confusing him. While I chatted I realised that these are the same type of things that confused me. So I thought it would be worth airing my confuzzlements and letting everyone see them.

I'm thinking back to when I was 15 or more, and growing up. I've used "gay". When I was growing up we were not gay. We were "queers", "homos", "poofs", "nancy boys".

  • "I'm not gay. I just like, love, a boy"
  • "I must be gay. I love looking at boys. Even the ugly ones"
  • "I don't dare be gay, so I won't be"
  • "It's a phase. The books say it's a phase. I'll wait it out"
  • "There. I've fucked a girl. I've shown them all, and me. I am not gay!"

Only this was not totally helpful. It was natural, that I'll grant you, but it didn't help.

I also had this weird thing. Or was it so weird? I was only attracted to boys I was attracted to. Now that is not the truism it sounds like. I mean that, even if you were trying your hardest to seduce me, if I wasn't already attracted to you I would never have even noticed. I know this to be true, because, looking back, one boy tried very hard to seduce me. And I never noticed.

I was scared of being discovered, and yet I wanted to be discovered. Except the consequences until I was 18 of discovery were likely to be appalling.

When I went to university I tried as hard as I could to shed the "shy dork" of school, and to reinvent myself. I got as far as wearing what I hoped were "attractive clothes", but the clothing and alleged fashions of the early 1970s were all rather weird! I "knew" I could seduce Geoff Ashcroft, only I never knew how to start. He was pretty, friendly, and, well, would shag anything that moved, and some things that didn't move. But I never dared start.

At university, a large campus of at least 15,000 students, there were several tings I was sure were important:

  • A very few old school colleagues were there
  • A (rather cute) lad who taught sailing with me in the vacations was there
  • Someone from my home sailing club was there
  • My very best friend (who is not nowadays even in contact with me) was there from my summer vacation sailing club
  • I was part of a clique and dared not be ostracised

Additionally I had actually no clear idea what sex with a guy meant. And I was sure I wanted more than sex.

Gay men actually disgusted me. The sole role models I could see were either effeminate, or were tough political activists. I could not identify with either

I've mentioned in another thread the Gay Liberation Annual Conference in 1972, and how I longed to be picked up. And also with Marc's reply that I would have run away. The majority of the people who I saw there were unusual. One sticks in my mind. Bright yellow tight T Shirt and leggings over which he wore crushed velvet black hot pants. If these were to be "my people" I wanted none of it.

Toilets with glory holes disgusted me. They made me very nervous just to go in when I needed to use the toilet and there was no-one around.

Public displays of affection between two guys made me shiver. Not because it was wrong, but because I think I wanted to be one of them but never dared, never knew how, and never had anyone who had showed me (so I thought) the slightest indication that he wanted me.

This whole thing comes down to fear. Now I've been on self development courses.

"Fear":

False
Evidence
Appearing
Real

And now I can see that. But then I could not. Not at all.

Because I was afraid of myself.

OK, times were different in the 1970s. Being gay meant jobs were harder to come by and very hard to keep. Being gay meant social death. You see "there was no-one else in the whole world who was gay" in my circle of friends.

I'm not sure I would have been any less afraid today in my accepting nation. In a less accepting part of the world I would be as scared, if not more scared.




Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Fear of being Gay  [message #23242 is a reply to message #23241] Thu, 30 December 2004 10:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
marc is currently offline  marc

Needs to get a life!

Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729



At 15 you know of my circumstances... I did not choose them but once the issue was forced I never once denied the "who" and the "what" I was/am.

Sometimes I wonder what my life would have been if I had just simply said "it was a mistake.... I don't know what ever came over me.... I'll never do it again..." and all the other catch phrases of self denial for the purpose of capitulating to the wants and desires of the authoriiy figures in my life at the time.

Would I be more at peace with myself? Would I be more successful? Would I be happy? Would I be alive?

It is impossible to say....

I made my choice at the time and never backed down from it... not even under the most extreem physical and psychological duress you can imagine... I never backed down and gave in to their demands that 'I be not queer'

Does it do any of us one shread of good to look back at all the "what if's" of alternative choices presented in our past? I don't know.... Does anyone know?

And Tim, as for running away.... I can with all certanty say that I never ever missed a mark I chose to persue.... For like the addage goes... "If you at first don't suc seed... Keep on sucking till you do suc seed..."

If I had not made a promise to be in my best behavior ("he" had insisted or I would have been left home).... Not a chance would you have had.... Blondes were my speciality... and blonde ushers always a tasty treat...Wink



Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
Re: Fear of being Gay  [message #23243 is a reply to message #23242] Thu, 30 December 2004 12:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800



Marc wrote:
> And Tim, as for running away.... I can with all certanty say that I never ever missed a mark I chose to persue.... For like the addage goes... "If you at first don't suc seed... Keep on sucking till you do suc seed..."
>
> If I had not made a promise to be in my best behavior ("he" had insisted or I would have been left home).... Not a chance would you have had.... Blondes were my speciality... and blonde ushers always a tasty treat...Wink

Well, as you know I had shoulder length blond hair, and was reasonably easy on the eye. So it is safe to assume that our paths never crossed. But the thing is, even if I'd let you catch me I would still have been looking over my shoulder. I know there is much else in your post, but I am just addressing this smallest segment.

The reason I would have been scared is becuase of my inner demons, you see. My upbringing made sure that I was unable to be gay. That is the real point behind my post: We get stuck by the way we are nurtured. We become afraid of our nature.

Let's suppose that we had somehow got togetjer then, back in 1972. I would have "had" to push you away because being gay was something I was denying so totally that I could not even allow anything to happen. I think it would have taken a tremendous amount of something I have no words for to have let me allow myself pleasure.

This is, in so many ways, the set of "stuff" i have been unable to say during my chats with my online friend. I'm not even sure if this is similar to the way he is feeling. So I am exposing my inner core in case it does him, or does someone else, a service



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Fear of being Gay  [message #23245 is a reply to message #23241] Thu, 30 December 2004 15:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
yourbestgayfriend is currently offline  yourbestgayfriend

Likes it here
Location: Appleton, Wisconsin, USA
Registered: August 2003
Messages: 214




Timmy, I thought it interesting how you were able to identify your fears and how you've dealt with them. Perhaps if more of us were able to honestly look at ourselves honestly, then we wouldn't live in such predicaments through fear and self loathing....

My situation was different, slightly, but I stayed hidden away and in denial for years because of fear as well.

You see, I had an older brother "Brian" who was gay. He was born that way, was very effeminate in all his actions and conversation (no, none of it was contrived), and at the ripe old age of 17 had the guts to identify who he was and come out. He was ostracized from our family and I only saw him 3 times and talked to him about 5 times over the last 22 years of his life.. before he passed away from an infection he couldn't fight because of his HIV+ issues.

I saw this growing up (he was older than me by 10 years), and even though I grew up 'with' my best friend next door, doing 'things' since I can literally remember, and when the time came to recognize I was gay, I did so inside myself but only secretly. All because of fear of being disowned like Brian was. It was harsh!!! The story really gets kind of weird here tho, because while I was gay, I told myself I wasn't. Looking back I think it was so I could convince myself I needed to get married and get on with life and be able to live with myself.

So I did get married, had a son, got divorced, met a guy (we were together for over a year, were in love, had lots of great sex... but never said we were gay or came out because we thought it was 'wrong'... and we knew we would be chagrined for it), broke up with him and got remarried... had 2 more kids and stayed totally faithful to my wife until the end... which was almost 3 years ago now.

Because I didn't come out and embrace my homosexuality, I have been given 3 wonderful kids... and that's the positive.

Because I didn't come out... and because of fear, Wayne and I had to break up, Michael and I never saw each other again, I began to go through a breakdown several times, sat in counseling for almost 5 years on and off, and, I feel, wasted what could have been a much more productive life... except for the children, and I will forever be grateful for them. However, I have spent countless hours and effort on overcoming the lies I continually told myself for so many many years.

One thing i didn't mention, is that even though Brian was disowned from our family, my mom was caught in a lesbian relationship about the same time Wayne and I were together.. and of course, it was just hushed and poo-poo'd until it was forgotten. Damned hipocracy!!!!!

If anyone is in the throes of identifying who they are and are coming to grips with their sexuality, I can only give this advice: be honest and true to yourself and who you are. You don't have to be effeminate, campy, or anything that you may feel is 'gay'. You are who you are. You are that way for a reason. Please, save yourself the pain and grief I and so many others have gone through and be brutally and straight forward honest.

Timmy, thanks for beginning this thread. Being able to be involved has helped me heal a little more once again!!

Love and Huge Hugs to all !!!!!
BamBam:-D Very Happy



Celebrate your life... embrace your love... Become intimate with your place in forever !!!
Re: Fear of being Gay  [message #23248 is a reply to message #23245] Thu, 30 December 2004 20:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
marc is currently offline  marc

Needs to get a life!

Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729



Ya know something... I have heard this same revelation from countless friends (recient and past as well)...

One thing I can say is that there is no truely "bad" decision (as long as it doesnt harm any innocent persons).

Being out is not the ultimate nexus for a GLBT person...

What is important is living a good life... trying your best to leave the world a better place and doing it on a daily basis. To try and leave the people you come in contact with with a smile on thier face.

And there will be setbacks, there always are and always will.

BUT!!! What the important thing is to not dwell on those dark times and move on with your life.

I don't say these things lightly... and I don't mean to sound preachy... What I am is talking from experience...



Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
Re: Fear of being Gay  [message #23250 is a reply to message #23245] Fri, 31 December 2004 10:15 Go to previous message
joesdog is currently offline  joesdog

Likes it here
Location: USA
Registered: June 2004
Messages: 252




Fears....yup, i've known a few.

I was raised by a man who was an abusive alcoholic, and sexually addicted, and covered it all with a veneer of fundamentalist christianity to be socially acceptable. There were 1200 hundred people in my town, none of whom were gay, at least visibly so. I was so conflicted, so morally outraged that someone who was so devoutly christian as I could be gay, that i spent a lot of time suicidal. I seriously felt as though this hideous monster lived in my body, and made me want things i should never be able to want. Immediately after my freshman year of college, an incident occured that yanked me kicking and screaming out of the closet, which actually turned out to be the best thing that could have happened to me. I took the first semester of my sophomore year out, collecting my rather shattered psyche, then went back to school and was housed that semester with a baseball player who showed me what i was missing--no love, but a hell of a lot of great sex. Finally, i lived the following summer and school year with a new age mystic and a communist in a house offcampus, and that pretty much set my feet on the road to where i am now.

As for 'what ifs'...i don't spend a lot of time on them. they're an interesting mental exercise, but i think i actually like my current reality a lot better than any of the ones i can imagine when i indulge in thinking about the 'what ifs'.

cheers!

aj



"I promise not to try not to fuck with your mind/ I promise not to mind if you go your way and i go mine/promise not to lie if i'm looking you right in your eye/promise not to try not to let you down."
--Eve6
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