|
|
marc
|
 |
Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
|
|
|
Does an online presence have the right to usurp the rights of a parent to protect a minor?
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
 |
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
|
|
|
I think the word "usurp" says it all. No-one has any rights to usurp anything.
If I rephrase it to say "Does an online presence have the right to assume the rights of a parent to protect a minor?" my answer may become slightly different. Even so the word "parent" is the clincher. Were it not for that word I would give a definite "maybe" because it depends on the circumstances. But no-one may assume the mantle of being a parent, nor that authority.
If we were to ask "May someone (anyone) of any age seek to protect a minor?" then the answer is that they may. But they have no rights to insist on doing so. And I would actually replace the words "minor" with "another perosn"
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
marc
|
|
Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
|
|
|
OK...
Lets formulate a set of generalized circumstances...
In a case by which another person of less than the legal minimum age of concent for the area in which that person resides is encouraged by an online aquaintance to follow a path other than required (demanded) by the parent(s).
The online aquaintance is above the age of majority.
In this case is it correct for the online friend/aquaintance to advise and encourage activity which runs contrary to the parents wishes?
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
|
|
|
The walking damned wrote:
> In a case by which another person of less than the legal minimum age of concent for the area in which that person resides is encouraged by an online aquaintance to follow a path other than required (demanded) by the parent(s).
>
> The online aquaintance is above the age of majority.
>
> In this case is it correct for the online friend/aquaintance to advise and encourage activity which runs contrary to the parents wishes?
It is not correct to encourage the older to break the law. Nor is it correct to encourage the younger in the thought that "It is ok for the older because he has given consent"
Depending upon the legislature in which the younger resides the fact that they are below the age of consent does not necessarily mean that the parent has the right to decide what they do. And if the parent does not have this right then neither does anyone else. Nonethelss the provisions of the law apply.
Emotionally and intellectually, however, each of the two people needs support. The younger in understanding the very challenging legal position the older would be in, and the older in understanding that, by virtue of his age, the more so if he is a legal adult, that the law will view the older as certainly an abuser and potentially a paedophile.
That having been said, should any sexual contact come to light or even be suspected (and in the UK "inappropriate touching" is included in sexual contact [Sexual Offences Act 2004]) then it is likely that the parents of the younger will ask for a prosecution, whetehr this is in the genuine interests of their child or not. Depending upon the circustances a defence lawyer for the older coudl argue that a prosecution is "not inthe public interest" and have a case dismissed pre-trial. That does not remove huge anxiety for both parties.
I think I over answered. Sorry,
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
i'm not entirely sure he meant just about sexual matters...
i.e. the younger's parents wanted him to particular subjects at school, but the older person advised choosing something else, perhaps understanding the youngers wishes better, or simply having more knowledge of wgat would be good for the younger in future years (i.e. relating to career choices)
or i may have it completely wrong lol
Odi et amo: quare id faciam, fortasse requiris.
Nescio, set fieri sentio et excrucior
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
|
|
|
I took it from "Age of Consent" in the explanatory post.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
marc
|
|
Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
|
|
|
I made no referance to breaking laws nor to anything sexual.
I am refering solely to the desires of the parents to raise their children as they see fit.
And... Refering to online friend(s) interfering in this upbringing.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
marc
|
|
Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
|
|
|
Ahhhhh...
strike "consent"
insert "majority"
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
|
|
|
Well I did take my cue form the words "Age of consent", you know.
So to look at the reposed problem:
The walking damned wrote:
> I am refering solely to the desires of the parents to raise their children as they see fit.
> And... Refering to online friend(s) interfering in this upbringing.
All friends "interfere" whenever they offer opinions on anything. That is not preventable nor even desirable to prevent. It is more important to raise your child to determine if opinions and advice are good or bad, and to trust them to make good decisions and to catch them when they fall.
It is easier for a parent to prevent an online friend being in contact than a face to face one, simply because they can remove the technology. Harder to prevent a face to face friendship, but still possible.
I know I have turned this to good parenting instead of your initial questions, but I see that as the answer. If the yoing perosn is very young thne it is the parent's role to educate and teach how to use onoine technology sensibly.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
|
|
|
Ok, Strike consent and add majority instead.
My answer still stands. Good parenting is the key. With good parenting and decent values, whiel a child may stray they will not fall too badly.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I think the answer also lies in what it is that the parents want the child to learn or do. If a 14 year old boy told me he believed he was gay, and his parents were religious zealots of whatever stripe and wanted him to forget all those perverted and disgusting thoughts, then yeah...i might very well advise going against a parent's wishes. I would also advise caution, of course...But just being a parent doesn't make one any wiser, and parents are as prone to blindness as any of us. If I believe that a child is being harmed by a parent's decisions, I might very well advise the child to think or do differently.
cheers!
aj
"I promise not to try not to fuck with your mind/ I promise not to mind if you go your way and i go mine/promise not to lie if i'm looking you right in your eye/promise not to try not to let you down."
--Eve6
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
|
|
|
And this is the thing. You have the perfect right to advise and the child has the right to listen to the advice. Of course parents may prevent the advice from being given if technology is removed.
The child then has to rely on inner knowledge from upbringing in order to process the advice and to formulate actions from it. Instinct also comes into play here. As an example I knew I was gay. I knew my parents would try to convert me using the "best therapies" available at the time. I knew I did not want that, though I knew being queer was tough. So I concealed being queer, even from myself. I would have rejected advice to come out to them, and would have accepted advice to stay closeted. My upbringing taught me about what was right and what was wrong, and I knew may parents were not right.
This goes far beyond parental values. A parent, even a bad parent, raises a child with values. Children are very clear on ethics. Evidence from my wife who works in a major primary school and teaches 5-6 year olds: "Even if the parents are appalling, even criminal, and many are," she says, "the children have a fierce sense of right and wrong and know instinctively what is good and what is not good. One was even worried that his daddy had a car load of stolen DVD players, and told me so." It seems only to be later that children go astray, value wise.
A wise parent understand that their child will be exposed to all sorts of influences, and simply seeks to prepare them for untoward influence. But, if we go back to the inner sense of right and wrong, the child knows what is right and what is wrong, even if unprepared for the influences. In part this comes from peer conversations in school. In part from the omnipresent TV shows.
Your putative 14 year old boy? He just needs to be advised to keep his own counsel and learn about himself and about the religious sect he has been raised in. And I think that is what you said 
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
marc
|
|
Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
|
|
|
timmy wrote:
> Your putative 14 year old boy? He just needs to be advised to keep his own counsel and learn about himself and about the religious sect he has been raised in. And I think that is what you said
But what if the parents say no? What does one do in the face of deliberately going against the wishes of the parents?
Would or could advise which is contrary to the wishes of parentals be considered something which might be a prosecutable offence?
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
|
|
|
Advising someone is not a prosecutable offence. However there are major risks to giving advice, not least the accusations of grooming a minor for sexual matters of one's own making. A "wronged parent" fights hard and dirty. It is challenging to be a gay man advising gay minors.
The thing to do while advising is to be open and above board, knownig alwasy that the other end of the conversation may be overheard (so to speak) and that the perosn at the other end may not be as they seem.
It is not unreasonable, nor is it a matter for a prosecution, to say to the putative gay 14 year old "I understand that your parents may be wholly against your orientation. My advice to you is to allow them to think you are heterosexual, doing whatever you need to do in order to live within the home until such time as you are both able to be and choose to be independent." Tis applies even if they know their child has said or indicated that he is gay, or even been caught in the act.
I'm hoping that we are covering the question you are asking here. If you were able to be more spcific the answers could be more specific
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
how would you advise a 14yr old boy who knows he;s gay, who is in love with someone, but whose parents refuse to tolerate and seek to surprese his sexuality and try to prevent him contacting his boyfriend?
*sighs* i try and be as objective as i can, but well, you know my situation
Odi et amo: quare id faciam, fortasse requiris.
Nescio, set fieri sentio et excrucior
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
|
|
|
Very simply, but the advice is hard to hear.
I would advise him to be totally patient, and to sit tight within the rather difficult framework his oparents have created. He should keep his head down and behave normally with his family. However hard it is, and however long it seems, to wait until he is at least over the age of sexual consent before he places you in the very challenging position of being alone with him.
And as the older person I would advise you to exercise the same patience.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
marc
|
|
Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
|
|
|
timmy wrote:
> I'm hoping that we are covering the question you are asking here. If you were able to be more spcific the answers could be more specific
I am asking a question with no specifics purely to get generalized information.
I never once mentioned gender identity, sexual orientation or sexual acts in any manner way shape or form because all of that is a non-issue.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
saben
|
 |
On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
|
|
|
Okay, take a totally different situation, one that ignores gender and seuxality entirely and has nothing to do with a relationship. Say that a minor friend of yours wants to study a particular subject at school, say Speech and Drama, but the parents tell them "you're not allowed to sutdy that because it is useless and doesn't help you get anywhere in life". As an online contact of this young person how should someone respond? Should you just tell them to obey their parents or should you advise them on how to go about circumventing their parents authority and studying the subject without getting caught? What are the ethical and legal implications of advising the minor to go against the will of their parents?
I'll post my own thoughts on this later, but I think it is a situation that fulfills Marc's original question without getting into the sticky quagmire that surrounds sexuality and consent issues.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
|
|
|
I comes down the the exact same thing. The child has the absolute right to make an informed decision. The parents may vary this decision by their "athourity", but the child needs the facts.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
marc
|
|
Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
|
|
|
How do you figure a child has the "right" to make decisions?
Where specifically are these rights detailed?
Seriously, I am interested in reading about this....
Here, the parental figures in the child's life has the responsibility to rear their child as they see fit.... Provided that rearage does not violate some basic laws of conduct and welfare.
The child in (i would assume) most cases be consulted as to wants and desires and also listened to when concerns are voiced but the parents have no directives to follow the wants of a child.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
|
|
|
Perhaps it is the huge cultural gulf between the UK and the USA.
It always feels that, in the USA, a child is the property of the parent. Here there are well defned and understood rights, including the right not to receive unreasonable smacking.
But I am speaking of simple human rights. A child is a human being and as such has rights.
Parents here, too, rear their children as they see fit. However the child is a part of that. A parent cannot insist on a course of education, though has the right in law to withdraw the child fomr Sexual and Religious education. A child's school is chosen by parents (ideally) or by the state (an OK system with no real drawbacks) without the child having any right to choose. So a child can be sent away to school as young as 7 years old to live at school (an archaic system which is tending to die out, mainly because of cost)
A child has the right to keep all its limbs intact, though may not, until a certain age give consent to surgery. Oddly I believe they may WITHOLD consent to surgery that the parent has consented to, but I am happy to be corrected. But a parent can withold consent, for example a Jehovah's Witness parent may withold cnsent for a blood transfusion that their minor child desires.
Such things here are referred to the courts, and the child may be placed "in custody of the court" where the parent is judged to be unreasnably witholding consent.
This is a huge topic, far beyond that originally posed. My son woudl have a clearer view since he is studying law and dealing with this area at present, but he doesn;t read here and will not post.
There are European charters of rights. Human, not children's rights. There is, I believe, a UN Charter of rights for children.
Bad parents, when reported to relevant authorities, are monitored, and children may be removed in extreme cases from the family. Undesirable, but technically posisble.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The monitoring and removal part of the process is, i think, similar here. When i worked for the TB clinic in the health department for Seattle/King County, we had a case where a baby had been exposed to TB, and the parents refused preventative treatment, that would prevent the bacteria that the child had been exposed to from becoming active, and would in fact, if followed all the way through the entire prescribed course, eliminate the Bacteria from the baby's system. The parents demurred on the ground that God would heal their baby if it became an issue.
The Medical Director of our clinic consulted with a pre-eminent TB specialist in the great state of texas, who said that if the case were under the jurisdiction of any health department in that state, the baby would have been removed from the home so fast it would have made the parent's heads swim, and placed in foster care for the duration of the treatment. Luckily, our Doc (a wonderful and loving man, and extraordinarily brilliant, though a bit absent-minded) replied that this wasn't how we do business in Seattle, and we left the child in the home and forged an agreement with the parents whereby the child was monitored monthly and X-rayed quarterly for the next year. I mention this, because i wanted to illustrate the wide variety of responses that one finds on the part of social services in different regions of the country, when each state runs its own social services department and implements its own rules.
cheers!
aj
"I promise not to try not to fuck with your mind/ I promise not to mind if you go your way and i go mine/promise not to lie if i'm looking you right in your eye/promise not to try not to let you down."
--Eve6
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
"A child has the right to keep all its limbs intact, though may not, until a certain age give consent to surgery. Oddly I believe they may WITHOLD consent to surgery that the parent has consented to, but I am happy to be corrected. But a parent can withold consent, for example a Jehovah's Witness parent may withold cnsent for a blood transfusion that their minor child desires."
as far as i understand the law of consent, a child or somewhat deemed to be mentally retarded or subnormal, or something from low levels of mental development cannot give consent to mediecal treatment, because they do not understand what may or may not be in their best interest. it is for the parent or guardian to give consent, and it doesn'tt particularly matter if the child refuses. the idea behind it is, the parent may give consent for treatment, but the child refuses because he is scared of needles. an adult is a lot less likely to allow a phobia to prevent life saving treatment.
with the jehovahs witness example, a parent may withhold consent as you state above, the law is unclear if one parent does give consent, but the child refuses because he is a card carrying witness, even though the parent is not.
what happens in that scenario would depend a lot on the doctor, because the child in refusing the treatment does have a valid reason to do so, which the courts have recognised would be in the childs best interest on grounds of religion, even though it may cost the child his life.
in such cases where there is dispute, and the person who is giving/withholding consent is doing so against the doctors idea of what is right for the patiant apply to the court to resolve the matter.
in one case the doctor and a young womans parents applied to have the woman sterilised because she was in a relationship, but had a rare disease that reducded her mental state to that of a child. it was held that the woman would be incapable of raising children, and also that because of mental state, her mother was allowed to give or withhold consent on her behalf.
in another case though, doctors applied to perfro a c-section on a woman even though she and her husband both refused, wanting a natural birth, the doctors claimed that not performing the operation would endanger the life of the woman and possibly kill the unborn child, the court ruled that the doctors duty to protect life overruled the couples consent in this scenario, and gave permission for the operation. a similar reason was stated in the recent case of the conjoined twins, mary and jody (Re A (medical necessity) 2000)
so to sumarise, a parent can override a child, or someone of a child like mentality, but in some circumstances, doctors can override the wishes of the parents/adults if it is in the patiants best interest. but contradicting that, if trhe patiant refuses on the grounds of religion, i.e. jehovas witness and blood transfusion, thats ok.
the most interesting case is that of re a. the parents came to the UK for help with the twins, who were joined along the chest, the doctors told them the only thing that could be done was to seperate them, but in doing so one would die. the parents refused consent, saying they were catholics and repected everyone;s right to life. the doctors went to the court saying performing the operation would guarantee the immediate death of one, but probably save the other, not operating would eventually probably kill both. a tough case to decide. the case was decided on grounds of medical necessity, not consent, but its interesting how in this case the parents religious views were disregarded, whereas in Blaue, a jehovahs witness case, they were upheld
Odi et amo: quare id faciam, fortasse requiris.
Nescio, set fieri sentio et excrucior
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
|
|
|
the Black Prince wrote:
> as far as i understand the law of consent, a child or somewhat deemed to be mentally retarded or subnormal, or something from low levels of mental development cannot give consent to mediecal treatment, because they do not understand what may or may not be in their best interest. it is for the parent or guardian to give consent, and it doesn'tt particularly matter if the child refuses. the idea behind it is, the parent may give consent for treatment, but the child refuses because he is scared of needles. an adult is a lot less likely to allow a phobia to prevent life saving treatment.
I am grateful for the correction. And now I see it in print it is logical. It also explains how parents of my parents' generation committed their gay offspring, their daughter who got pregnant outside wedlock and so many other "BAD CHILDREN" to loive their lives in mental hospitals being drugged and tortured daily. Interesting that this remains possible today.
It also explains that "minor piece of surgery" requested by Victorian fathers to remove a daughter's clitoris "in order to prevent hysteria", and performed by the family doctor. Upper classes only, you understand.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hi Marc,
Don't know if an online presence can really usurp the presence of a parent or guardian. If the minor seeks out advice online, obviously the relationship between him and his parent (supposing it is a boy) isn't strong enough to handle the problem in the first place. I don't view it as usurping, but merely seeking advice anonymously.
Bob
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
|
|
|
I'll agree with most of what you say.
Bob P wrote:
> Hi Marc,
> Don't know if an online presence can really usurp the presence of a parent or guardian. If the minor seeks out advice online, obviously the relationship between him and his parent (supposing it is a boy) isn't strong enough to handle the problem in the first place. I don't view it as usurping, but merely seeking advice anonymously.
People seek advice online for many reasons, including lack of strength in a relationship. Other reasons include:- Validation of existing opinions
- Genuinely wanting a different opinion
- Having no "own opinion and wanting the information in order to form one
- Lack of ability to broach this topic with parents
The list is not exhaustive.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
marc
|
|
Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
|
|
|
Granted....
But what if the advice is diametrically opposed to the wished and desires of the parent?
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
|
|
|
How will the parent ever know?
"You have to be wrong because my online friend says you are"? I don't think so.
Many people give advice diametrically opposed to the wishes of the parent. Look at the advertising industry. I did not wish to buy Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, My little pony or anything like thta. My wishes were that we did not buy them. the advertisers advised that these were necessary for the continuation of life as we know it.
So I advised my son how tawdry the offers were. He saw the point and we did not fill the house with plasti-tat.
Good parenting prepares a child to receive information, to process it and to reach a conclusion. Much advice my son has received in his 20 years has been advice I did not wish him to receive: "Smoke", "Smoke pot", "take magic mushrooms" and much else besides. These exhortations and the advice that came with them were diametrically opposed to my own wishes and desires for him. And he took some of that advice. And has reached his own current conclusions.
I objected massively to his friends giving him that advice, and I chose to keep my own counsel. I also welcome those friends into my home, knowing that their opinion and mine have been different and may still be different.
Why does it have to be a battle?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
marc
|
|
Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
|
|
|
But what if the parents are aware?
What if in the course of giving information or advice the "giver" is made aware of the wishes of the parents?
Is it ethically right to continue giving that same advice knowing the parents are opposed to it?
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
|
|
|
yes
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
JL
|
 |
Getting started |
Location: US
Registered: December 2004
Messages: 24
|
|
|
It seems as though much of the discussion has surrounded advice from the adult to the minor. You have no moral obligation to provide advice [though it would be kind to do so when asked] nor does the recipient have any obligation to heed said advice. I don't think the one providing advice should consider anyone's feelings or thoughts concerning it except for those of the one on the receiving end. If it happens to go against the parents' feelings and the minor holds his/her parents' wishes in high regard then he/she is entitled to disregard one's advice.
My advice? Forget the parents [for the time being].
I don't think it's a question of ethics on the giver's part, or the receiver's part, necessarily. However, if ethical responsibility rests on either participant it's the minor. He/she is free to choose to do whatever he/she desires regardless of the recommendations of the adult.
Just as an aside -- Even if the question does not concern advice specifically, it's still the minor's choice [in my opinion].
JL
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
marc
|
|
Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
|
|
|
Do the legal ramifications hold the same weight of conviction?
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
|
|
|
If you advise anyone to break the law then you are culpable. If the advice given is lawful advice to give then the giving of the advice is lawful. Same conviction: Yes, with that sole proviso.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
marc
|
|
Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
|
|
|
I understand that....
But if the giver of advice has the knowledge that the parelts are adamantly opposed to the views or advice being given would then the continuation of giving advice be considered coersion or possibly abusive?
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
|
|
|
No. It would not.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
marc
|
|
Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
|
|
|
from your perspective perhaps not...
But what about from the perspective of the parents?
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
|
|
|
The parents have the right to control and influence their child. They have the right to prohibit their child from receiving the advice. But they have absolutely no rights over the giver of the advice. That giver could be a radio show or a person. They can prevent the advice from being received, not from being given.
It doesn't matter one jot if they beleive that the person giving the advice is coercing their child. What matters is that the perosn givig the advice is actually not doing so.
Now, if the advisor were,instead of advising, grooming the child for a sexual act with the advisor or another party, that is an offence. But that is also an unlawful act, and we have eliminated unlawful acts from this thread a long time ago
If you have real advice that is lawful advice, give it to the child and do so with impunity
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
marc
|
|
Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
|
|
|
Ok...
I know how easy it is to say "If you have real advice that is lawful advice, give it to the child and do so with impunity"....
but are there truely laws protecting givers of said advice?
Are there laws protecting parental rights to prevent it?
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
|
|
|
The walking damned wrote:
> Ok...
>
> I know how easy it is to say "If you have real advice that is lawful advice, give it to the child and do so with impunity"....
>
> but are there truely laws protecting givers of said advice?
>
> Are there laws protecting parental rights to prevent it?
Different nations naturally have different laws, so use logic and common sense here.
If you give advice which is lawful advice as someone who has been asked for advice, but not consulted as a professional giver of advice, then your advice is given as one non expert individual. You are not liable legally nor professionally for your advice. You are a private citizen who has been asked for an opinion, and you have given it. I provate citizen has a right to give an opinion. I think the USA has some sort of constitution thatg expressly allows free speech.
A parent has no need of laws to prevent their child from hearing things they do not wish it to hear. They simply prevent it. Or they try to. Period.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
marc
|
|
Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
|
|
|
Oh my...
Calm down...
It was after all just a question...
Or are these prohibited as well now?
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
|
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
|
] 
A Place of Safety
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
