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Shawn
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Toe is in the water |
Registered: July 2004
Messages: 69
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Do you think, if someone was supposed to die, in fact would have died, except for extraordinary intervention, that maybe, (the intervention) it is not always the right thing to do? How do we know if it's their time to go or not? Is it always the right decision? Is it even ours to make?
Shawn
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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it depends on the quality of life after the intervention, or the predicted quality of life when deciding on the intervention. To me each circumstance is unique and needs a unique assessment.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Shawn
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Toe is in the water |
Registered: July 2004
Messages: 69
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Exactly what I thought! So if the quality of life is very poor, it's just best to leave well enough alone.
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Shawn, I think it is very important here to define who the "you" is in your question. I am very grateful that paramedics once intervened and saved my life. On the other hand, were I suffering from an incurable and painful disease that condemns me to spend the rest of my life in a hospital bed I would rather that the medical staff refrained from interfering and just let nature take its course.
If the "you" of your question is just anybody - a passer-by let's say - who can prevent a tragedy by timely intervention he most certainly should do so. Would he ever be able to forgive himself for letting a toddler step off the sidewalk into a highway full of fast traffic while his mother wasn't watching when he could have prevented this?
I don't know whether my rambling has helped at all.
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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My view is yes. However the wishes of the perosn concerned are paramount. For example, let us assume I was the perosn for whom the intervention was necessary. I am the only perosn capable of judging the risks I am prepared to take. This presuppposes that I am inm a position to make that decision.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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There are many variants that define quality of life. In some instances it might be a non health issue such as homelessness (and as it relates to your origional question simple things such as food and shelter might make the difference between life and death).
Another instance could mobility. A debilitating disorder surely impeedes Steven Hawkings ability to get about but his mind is purely acute. His disorder limits his quality of life.
And there are the terminally ill. But with the great advances in medicine a cure might be just a day away.
Accidental incidences tend to bring a more abrupt alteration to ones quality of life and with that comes the impact of post trauma depression. When one sees only the pain and limitations there tends to be a want to end it. But as in illness, medicine has improved in its repairative skills as well...
It's a hard subject to discuss... to even think about...
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Shawn
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Toe is in the water |
Registered: July 2004
Messages: 69
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I think in the case of the toddler or any similar situation, anyone would do anything humanly possible to save that child or person if it wasn't a child.
I guess I was speaking more from an illness or accident perspective. It appears that the goal of doctors, perhaps rightly so, is to SAVE the patient no matter what. So you may be left with a patient who has little or no quality of life as they see it. Even though the doctor may consider it a victory, patient saved, end of story for him, if the patient doesn't, has the right thing been done?  ??
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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In so many ways it is the same as the question "Who wants to be 99 years old?"
The answer is a 98 year old. Or it is "in general".
It is far easier to make a decision about a pet than about a fellow human being. Doctors do "save" life. What of the premature baby, the same age as an aborted foetus? One might live, the other will not. I don't mean to start a pro/anti abortion debate. That is unwinnable. This is "just" an extreme example of a place where the positive intervention migt be misplaced
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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JL
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Getting started |
Location: US
Registered: December 2004
Messages: 24
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Just to clarify [i don't know if this question has already been asked/answered]: what do you mean by "supposed to"? Do you mean religiously? Or as in a devestating car accident? Or suicide? And, what kind of intervention?
-JL
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Shawn
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Toe is in the water |
Registered: July 2004
Messages: 69
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substitute 'would have' for 'supposed to'. I was in a debate last night with a friend over the issue of medical intervention, life saving techniques, and if the "life", had in fact, really been saved. Sometimes it depends on your definition of what "A Life" is as opposed to "life". That's where the quality of life comes in, that will be different for different people.
Shawn
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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In the cases of extreeme terminal illness or heinous devistating injury one has to distance his/her self from the personal tug of emotional ties and consider solely the wants of the patient or injured.
Much easier to say than do....
This is a very hard subject to discuss. Mostly because there are no set rules here. Each instance has to be dealt with according to its own circle of participants as well as its own individual set of circumstances.
What the important thing is (I believe) is to be humane.
I sat in the street and watched someone die once with no control over what was happening. I would have taken his place in a heartbeat if I could have. There could be no greater feeling of helplessness.
If he would have lived due to the seriousness of his injuries he would not have been the person I knew. God was merciful enough to take him.
I will never forget that look of fear as well as the cold fading of his essence as he passed....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Shawn
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Toe is in the water |
Registered: July 2004
Messages: 69
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Marc, I'm sorry. You have experienced so much pain in your life. We can stop this right here. Debating something over drinks is nothing like what you have had to live through. I wish I hadn't brought it up. Forgive me please.
Shawn
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Shawn.... This is not a thing to beat yourself up over.
It was a long time ago and I am handling everything quite well. Actually I have been for the past 5 years. A mutual friend was instrumental in my making several changes in my life and today I am quite happy and in a loving relationship with my Kevy....
For the most part I have pushed these memories to the archive portion of my meager brain. This time of year I sometimes get a little weepy because I am coming up on the anniversary of the event.
I just want you to understand that my example was to give a bit of perspective to your question and subsequent thread.
Again, there is nothing to appologize for....
But I do indeed appreciate the sentiment....
Marc.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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