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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I think you have a hint of the stench right now.
Let's ignore for all time your assurances, which I believe, that you are not sexually interested in the young gentlemen of your acquaintance. Let's also ignore NW's sincere comment that you are not an abuser, and not in W's class at all.
Instead let's look at perception. Perception is reality. So we are looking at other's people's reality about you.- One boy perceives you as a paedophile
- Because of that one boy other boys perceive you as a paedophile
- It is said in jest currently
- jests, repeated often enough, become facts
- It matters not at all tat the fact is not true. It is a fact
- One boy's mother perceives you as a paedophile
- This is a dangerous fact
- Dangerous facts are major warnings
- Fail to heed major warnings and serious consequences beckon
I could go on. Instead i am going to give you an idea of where you are headed. I emphasise that you are headed there eventhough your motivations are as you have assured us and I believe you.
In the UK the Sexual Offences Act 2004 has the offence of "Grooming a minor for sexual acts.". I can make a good legal argument that you are doing this. And you can not disprove this at all. "popular" opinion says you are a paedophile. Thus you are a paedophile.
The offence of grooming carries a prison sentence.
Serving that sentence will happen in a young offenders' location. There you will be hurt badly and buggered regualrly and hard by deeply unpleasant people.
That will pass.
Afterwards you will be on the Sexual Offenders Register. This means major restrictions on your liberty and the grave danger of being killed by vigilantes when the details are leaked to the public.
Your travel will be restricted. Foreign nations do not accept criminals for visits. They are particularly keen on not accepting sexual offenders. No vacations in the USA. Ever.
It makes no difference here that your intentions are honourable and innocent. What makes the fifference is the perception people have of you. Someone will make it their business to pry into your innocent business and will make one of these joke accusations stick one day. Hmm. The mother, though. That concerns me deeply. You have done something to appear to her to be a danger to her minor child.
So this you have to sort out. To do so you need adult help. It is wise for the foreseeable future to distance yourself from children unless in a formal environment. And that means under supervision so there can be no accusations of impropriety.
You have to get a grip on this.
You have started showing me that you are getting a grip. Now show me the rest.
The manure stinks. Step away from the manure.
[Updated on: Sun, 06 February 2005 12:45]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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The relationship between the
RSHO, the grooming offence
and other orders
29 There is no necessary link between the offence
of meeting a child following sexual grooming
etc. (s.15) and the new civil RSHO. “Grooming”
is the name given to conduct whereby an adult
will communicate with or behave towards a
child with the ultimate aim of engaging them in
unlawful sexual activity.This may include
establishing a relationship with the child as a
confidante, friend, and support. It may be done,
for example, via a relationship with the child’s
parent, directly through a position of care or
proximity to the child or online via the Internet.
30 Grooming activity might include, but is not limited
to, developing a relationship with the child in
which an atmosphere of secrecy is encouraged,
diverting the young person away from their
family, friends, and daily life, sending children
indecent images, and writing or talking to them
about sexual matters. Normally, the offenders will
ask the child, sometimes using inducements or
threats, to keep the communication between
them secret.This behaviour may be facilitated
either through face to face contact, telephone,
mobile phone, the Internet and all manner of
forms of written communication. A typical case
could involve an older man befriending a child or
young teenager over the Internet, perhaps with
the older man assuming a fictional teenager’s
identity himself.The two would typically “meet” in
an Internet chat room, and then develop a oneto-
one communication, by email, one-to-one
online chat, text messaging, and perhaps
telephone. He will then arrange to actually meet
the child for sexual activity.
31 In some cases, the communication towards the
child may involve no explicit sexual contact, such
as a piano teacher or swimming coach meeting
a child. It is aimed at simply gaining the child’s
confidence. It is only when there is evidence that
the adult intends to meet the child with the
intent of committing a sexual offence against
them, either then or subsequently, that a criminal
charge under the offence of “meeting a child
following sexual grooming etc.” at Section 15 of
the Sexual Offences Act 2003 can be brought.
32 In some instances, the grooming behaviour will
always be wrong, for example, sending children
indecent images. In other cases, such as spending
time with children alone, the behaviour is not
wrong in itself but becomes so because of the
criminal intent of the adult.This is in contrast with
the civil order, where the content of the triggering
communication or conduct will always be explicitly
sexual. Simply befriending or sharing hobbies with
a child (where there is no explicitly sexual
content) is not sufficient to found a civil order.
33 In order to be convicted of the criminal offence,
the adult must intentionally meet with a child
or travel to that meeting with the intent of
committing a sexual offence against the child
either at that meeting or later after
communicating or meeting with that child on
at least two occasions previously.The meeting
or intended meeting with the child is, therefore,
key to the offence.
34 The RSHO is intended to prevent a defendant
who has at least twice engaged in sexually
explicit conduct or communication from causing
harm to a child or children from further similar
behaviour.The behaviour need not be directed
against any one particular child as it must for the
criminal offence, since the civil order is based on
the risk posed by the defendant. In contrast to
the criminal offence, the civil order does not turn
on whether the adult intends to engage the child
directly in sexual activity or even whether he
intends to meet the child. He may simply intend
to communicate with the child over the Internet.
In such an example, the harm comes from the
actual content of such communication, not any
underlying intention to commit a sex offence.
35 A conviction for the criminal offence will
automatically trigger the notification
requirements of Part 2 of the Act.A person
subject to a RSHO will not be subject to the
notification requirements. However, conviction
for breach of a RSHO, which is a criminal
offence, will require the person to comply with
the notification requirements.
36 If a person has a criminal conviction for the
offence of meeting a child following sexual
grooming etc. (or any other sexual offence), the
police may seek a RSHO against that individual
if he subsequently acts in a way that meets the
trigger conditions for an order. However, in
general, if an offender has a conviction for a
sexual offence, it would be more likely that an
application would be made for a sexual offences
prevention order (SOPO) to be made against
him (or a SOPO could be imposed on him at
the time of conviction).
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Can I 100% support timmy's excellent advice, especially the part about not having contact with children except in a formal / supervised / self-evidently "safe" setting.
It's an important thing for *all* of us to remember, but perhaps especially for you to bear in mind.
And DO talk to someone. With an open mind - if some of what they say isn't exactly what you'd hoped to hear, don't shut it out, but think about it.
You obviously have a lot to offer, and when you get sorted out about your current conflicts I'm sure that you will find constructive outlets for your caring feelings.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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Person
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Getting started |
Registered: February 2005
Messages: 4
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He won't listen, he's too much of an idiot to realise that this so-called "innocence" he seeks in the year 7's doesn't exist. It's like me going to the North Pole to look for Santa Claus.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I don't iike the word "idiot" here. He is foolish, cdrtainly, in the same way that all young people may be foolish. But he is not an idiot. He is just blind to this issue at present.
Rather than abuse him I would appreciate it of you would encourage hom down the right path.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Person
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Getting started |
Registered: February 2005
Messages: 4
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Blinded by his naïveness (is that the right word?) then.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Regrettably that does not help him. This boy needs guidance. He does not need people to hurl brickbats at him. He needs to see the issues that he faces and to be guided along the right path.
Telling a person in need of help what you have done in the way you have done it is only going to make them withdraw into themselves. So I view that as wholly unhelpful. I know you have registered today in this new name just to post this anonymously. I really don't appreciate that as a behaviour. Look at the top of the board.
Now we are not going to make this thread about you. This is about him.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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He is well aware of the issues he faces and is taking sensible steps to make sure he is never in compromising situations and that his reputation is distanced from any possible accusations. This is very good news.
He is aware that any defence agains an accusation of grooming is shot down with "Well, he would say that, wouldn't he?" and that is a thing every one of us should be aware of.
He has identified our mildly abusive poster to me as someone he has blocked from his contact list more times than he can count. We will all ignore "Person" while he is abusive, please. And he should note that I log IP addresses and am aware of his and his email address.
Eothain is well aware that we have his best interests at heart. He will take heed of advice and act on relevant and sensible points. Wisely he will discard what he perceives as poor advice
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I think the plain speaking in this thread is greatly appreciated. It's cut through a whole lot of crap.
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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Person
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Getting started |
Registered: February 2005
Messages: 4
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I am not being abusive, I am merely stating that Eothain doesn't seem to realise that the year 7's are not as innocent as he'd like them to be.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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There are times when periphrasis is wise. This was not one of them. Action now, such as he is taking, will remove the danger from him. He is an honest young man and wears his heart on his sleeve. His parents are hugely supportive of him in his life, too.
There is a real danger in today's rather prurient society that peole will look into everyone's lives and find their own view of morality. It behoves us to be very clean in all we do, the more so when there is a risk of accusation
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Eothain
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Likes it here |
Location: Rohan!
Registered: April 2004
Messages: 108
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This whole incident is proof that society both sucks and blows at the same time. Because I befriend a bunch of kids, that automatically makes me supsicious, as if I was grooming them or something. For one thing, I'm not grooming them for anything. I've never talked about anything sexual with them or anything indecent and I don't encourage secrecy or anything. I just have a friendship with them which, though there's an age difference, I don't think there's anything wrong about. All those who judge are either paranoid, jealous and insecure about their own feelings. And I asked Alex what his mum think of me and he said that she thinks that I'm "A nice boy". See, she obviously has sense to not think that there's anything sexual about it. And those who might think that, which are few, I think, are fools if they genuienly believe it... And after all, with just accusations and no proof, how can I possibly be charged with ANYTHING?! Maybe I'm getting myself into deep here, or whatever. I don't care, there's nothing up my sleeve, no ulteria motive or anything. Why is it that a friendship can't just be that, a friendship? Why must people always seek to destroy any sense of beauty in anything? Doesn't anyone have any inclination of innocence? Does everything have to have some sort of ulteria motive? God, mankind sucks if this is the way it's headed. Destroying it's soul, it's humanity, it's innocence...
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I hear your pain, and I certainly share your anger that innocent friendships between older and younger are so difficult in our present society. But that's how it is. I agree it sucks. But Timmy is absolutely right to talk about the importance of avoiding any apparently possibly compromising situations. Suspicion, gossip and innuendo may go round without any cause at all, and it's pretty important to be able to show that it's baseless.
Can I give an example from my own experience?
A venue I used to run hosted under-sixteen disco's on a regular basis, through to 1 am: it was the only entertainment for twenty miles around so we got 500 kids most times. On one occason a twelve-yr-old got totally out of order - throwing water bombs in the Hall, fighting other kids, etc. One of my staff (a thoroughly decent, honest, 62-year-old grandfather) asked the kid to leave, or to call parent/friend to be collected. The immediate reaction was the kid calling the police to accuse my staff member of having "molested him while pretending to carry out the usual search-on-entrance". I spent a very difficult few hours with the police, supporting my staff member, until they had double-checked the CCTV footage - thankfully, I'd ensured that the entrance area was covered by additional cameras. Had it not been for this, which totally cleared my staff member, I would not have been able to let him to continue to work, but would have had to suspend him for a full investigation, in spite of my total faith in his innocence.
On this occasion, it turned out well (better, even: the kid apparently had also made an accusation against a staff member at school, and this incident was instrumental in getting that teacher back to work). But it could have been two lives totally fucked up by totally baseless allegations.
I'm afraid innocence isn't always enough - we have to be able to prove that we're above suspicion. I'm sure there may be situations where you can continue to see your younger friends in a large-group context: I know it isn't ideal, but real friendship can flourish and grow even like that. And that's the really important thing.
just my own point of view, of course, for what it's worth.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I have never said that society is correct, and I share your bewilderment with society.
Decent boys SHOULD be able to befriend younger kids in all innocence. The issue is that nowadays decent boys alos need to be aware that indecent boys can accuse them and destroy them. So more than usual commonsense is required
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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It matters not one squat what your true intentions are reguarding younger boys. What does matter is the perception you place into the minds of those involved as well as those that witness your involvment.
If you go back and read a great many postings by you and reread them with an open mind you might come to the realization that the warnings and cautions placed here on the board are in responce to your words as you wrote them.
Call the world a shit hole if you want, but it was your shovel that dug that hole in the first place.
Now it up to you to fill that hole and get on with your life or continue on as you were and fall into it.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Eothain
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Likes it here |
Location: Rohan!
Registered: April 2004
Messages: 108
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Well, for one thing pretty much everyone I know in reality doesn't know about this site or the content of my previous posts so that hole does not exsist for them. I've done nothing wrong so why should I decist doing what I'm doing? People can percieve whatever the hell they like, if they believe something wrong, then I can talk to them and explain very simply the truth, that it's just friendship. Anyone who knows me knows that I'm a trustworthy person and know I wouldn't be the type of person to do anything like that. If someone who doesn't know me (say a parent) talks to me, then they'd discover that for themselves. Plus, I doubt the kid who said I was a peadophile was being serious. Plus, he never actually said it himself.
And sure, there could be some people that could make wild accusations that put me in difficult situations, but I sincerely doubt anyone would do that. For one thing, there's no substance for anyone to even believe anything and secondly, they would have no reason to. They like me too much to do anything like that. Sure, if I actaully did anything, then they could do whatever they like and whatever I get, I'd deserve. The kids themselves don't have any prejudice, neither do the teachers. Anyone else who wants to judge me on this... Well, they can leave me alone. Believe what you bloody well like, but chances are it isn't deep. I shall not bloody well let society destroy the friendship that I've wanted for so many years! Just because it's paranoia, it's ability to see the worst in people and things and it's prejudice. I've gone too far to destroy it all now.
Plus, I like holes. They're nice.
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I agree, it may not seem fair at all.
But, please, Eothan, for your own good, listen to Timmy and the other good people here. Do what is necessary to avoid being drawn into that hole. It is not a nice hole, believe me.
I was once at the receiving end of accusations similar to those described by NW. There was, of course, a police investigation, but in the end I was neither suspended from my job nor prosecuted, even if some persons wanted it otherwise. Instead, I received a lot of support from friends, colleagues and family, even from the police, as it turned out, and on the surface the whole matter is over and done with.
Still, it nearly killed me.
The hole, Eothan, is Hell.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I read and re-read that and thought "That does not agree with what he said to me yesterday", and felt quite let down.
Then I realised that perhaps I should just not care. The problem is I do care.
Did care.
I think I will now care about other people. Eventually even I realise when I am never going to get through, Eothain. I realised it a moment or two ago.
Ask me when you are ready. Or ask anyone when you are ready.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Eothain
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Likes it here |
Location: Rohan!
Registered: April 2004
Messages: 108
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Well, in that case then I'll just go then. After all, I'm a lost bloody cause and you no longer give a damn so it's all pointless anyway. Goodbye.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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To be 17 and have all the answers, to walk about the world knowing there is nothing more to learn.
Yes, it truely would be a wonderous thing if it were possible...
But it is not...
You ask questions and when the local masses don't fall in line like good little ducks you just up and run away.
We are only trying to help you... If you don't need the help, well fine, but if you do at least have the grace to accept it within the spirit by which it is offered....
You think you are somehow insulated from any accusations, just because you are well kiked... OK... good,,,, But just for one moment imagine the possibilities of what could happen if one of your little friends decide you wronged him in some way.... You could be in for a bumpy ride through the court system... A ride that could possible last for the rest of your life.
Now right off you are going to expound "what me... little well liked me, NO WAY that could possibly happen to me"
BALLOCKS.... It happens far more often than you might imagine.
But like I said previously, the choice is up to you... You can move on and play in the real world, or you can just spar with the bull until you end up getting gored.
Your choice...
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Eothain
you know damn well you're not a lost cause.
you also know damn well that we'll be here *when you're ready* (well I certainly will be, even if I haven't been here long,)
and I know you're hurting. I take that - and you - seriously. But posts like your last one don't exactly help, you know.
Oh, I'll get over it. And I hope you'll get over it. Like I said, I'll be here when you're ready to to both talk and listen.
( and my apologies to timmy - the bad language at the start is not gratuitous and so I hope it does not offend against Nettiqette for the forum )
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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in my experiance, society on the whole and people in general are just waiting to screw you over anyway, so why wait to give them a perfect opportunity? get out now, while you have the chance to leave in the wya you want, not the way people want you to go.
its not like todays current society can actually offer anyone anything worthwhile...
Odi et amo: quare id faciam, fortasse requiris.
Nescio, set fieri sentio et excrucior
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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As I said: Ask me when you are ready. Or ask someone else.
I have given up trying to push string. Your response shows me simply that you are not ready. You could be ready later today, or tomorrow, or in 10 years. So ask when you are ready.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Sophos
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Getting started |
Location: Canada
Registered: February 2005
Messages: 1
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Eothain you can not prosper or enjoy life if you live and act so arrogantly as to discount the opinions, and power of opinion of others. It's not an option.
If you were a hermit you could have license as you choose, but growing up, living where you do, you have to factor other people into your decisions. Like it or not, they may even be right sometimes. In any case, I think these people [here] are right about this one.
Cogito ergo doleo
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It is time to smell the manure, Eothain 
Re: It is time to smell the manure, Eothain 
