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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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How do I help someone who has said to his parents "I am gay" and received twin reactions. Paternal declaration of love and support coupled with paternal religious homily about "never act on this or you will be condemned to fiery torment"
Please note: Leaving home is not a current possiblity. Nor is arguing with the father, nor, probabaky, having a rational discussion with him (Newly converted Roman Candle). I appreciate that many will wish to offer this as advice, but please accept that, for the next few years, this is not a possibility. Instaed I would like practical thoughts on managing to stay sane and to thrive within the home environment.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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That is simple.....
He won't thrive until he resolves the homelife issue.
It will be a mindless onslaught of "better than thou" sermons without end.
The best this person could hope for is to avert physical confrontation.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Oh dear, recent converts are often SO difficult: most of the 'cradle' catholics I know take a much more relaxed and sympathetic view.
Just a couple of ideas:
Firstly - as I'm sure you're doing - lots & lots of reassurance, probably needed over a long timescale, to counteract the inevitable (and quite possibly unspoken) drip, drip of propaganda that being gay is somehow 'wrong' or 'not normal'.
Secondly - how does the local priest feel on the subject? Many of the religious professionals I know take a very human approach; and if the local Father was sympathetic words from this source might be taken seriously. If only the sober figures on mental health and suicide rates among rejected gay teens.
Thirdly - I do think a further discussion with the father is going to be needed, although probably not right now. It seems pretty clear that specific genital 'sex' acts would cause the father to go batshit, but what is the line? Kissing? Holding hands? Simply meeting one-on-one? Actually falling in love (which can be extremely difficult to hide!)? All of these are in some sense 'acting on it'. If moving out is really not a possibility, then there's going to need to be clarity about what constitutes "acceptable" behaviour.
Fourthly - and I've said it before - plan B / escape route. Hopefully never to be needed. But it's almost impossible to make any sensible decisions after having been thrown out of home late at night, with no credit on the mobile, no money, no access to the net.
Fifthly - I'd guess that the father is going to keep a close eye on what friendships develop over the next while: this may make it difficult for the young person to rely on in-the-flesh friends for support. On-line stuff may be monitored or otherwise difficult. So contact may be irregular, need-driven, and prompt replies will make a BIG difference (but you pretty much always do reply promptly, anyway).
Finally - more of a warning note. The organisation for gay catholics in the UK is QUEST (http://www.questgaycatholic.org.uk). If the father suggests working with them, I've heard from a couple of people that they are pretty close to the hard-line official RC doctrines, so I wouldn't necessarily see this as a good move. Other people may have heard differently, or have different experiences, though.
just my thoughts on it all, for what they're worth. Some may not apply, and your mileage may vary.
NW
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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How should he act at home? How best does one handle this in order to survuve well?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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My first scan of the Quest site does not show a hard line attitude. I would love to hear more from one who has first hand experience.
Why can one not have FAITH without a RELIGION?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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He makes himself the invisible boy....
No conflict produces no adverse reaction....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy wrote:
>
> Why can one not have FAITH without a RELIGION?
One can. But, much like sex, faith is incomparably better when shared ! And, also like sex, trying to persuade others to share with you if they aren't interested is an insulting waste of time.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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How old is the guy ? The best way to stay sane is ignore the homosexual propaganda. I came from a situation that would have been similar had I chose to come out to my parents and I think that I'm still sane. Really though, that is all you can do especially if rational discussion is out of the question. Maybe over time their opinions will change but what else can you do ? It seems to me that it is not a huge deal at the moment just because the parents don't agree with the fact that he's gay, but still love him regardless. Not the most optimal situation but livable. As long as they don't try to "turn him straight". I say the situation doesn't seem like a big deal right now because it appears as though the person in question feels secure and has accepted that they are gay. If that is not the case then the situation becomes a little harder.
Also, this is my first post here although I've read the site for atleast 3 years I think. Possibly longer.
David
It's always the old to lead us to the war
It's always the young to fall
Now look at all we've won with the sabre and the gun
Tell me is it worth it all
~Phil Ochs "I Aint Marching Anymore"
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Faith and religion do not necessarily walk hand in hand.
While religion requires faith (after all the belief in the concept of a Godhead goes totally unsubstanciated)...... Faith is a condition that can rightfully stand alone.
Faith in essence is a conviction that indeterminate conditions produce predictable results.
Belief in a friends abilities without proof requires a degree of faith.
To send a boy to war requires faith by both parties. The comander that the boy will act with bravery and diligence. The boy that the comander issues sensible and rational orders to be followed.
One purchaces foods based on the faith that the food was properly prepared.
Religion has no basis in fact. It is the combined faith of the followers that perpetuate the sect. Once faith is removed from the mixture, the religion is doomed to fall into obscurity.
Therefore, religion can not exist without faith.... but faith was present before religion.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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I think there are really only two choices.
You've ruled out the first: any kind of confrontation, or leaving home. This probably also means that even the usual teenage tussles with parental authority (like curfew times) should be avoided, as the father may see these as having a subtext relating to gay issues. From what you said, I don't think that "don't ask, don't tell" is going to work here.
The only other route is to meet and exceed all the father's other hopes and expectations - academic, sporting, conduct, chores, timekeeping, ... whatever they are - for the remainder of the time he's living at home. This would be really tough for anyone to deliver consistently! But, I think that's the only way to build enough freedom to make a space to continue to feel happy about being gay in. I'm really sorry that this sounds like advocating a return to the closet - at least, in respect of the family. And I'm only too aware that it's likely to undermine the love and affection that seems to exist within the family at present, and to store up trouble for the future.
I guess this is pretty much like Marc's "invisible boy" routine.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I think you have a good set of points. That is "you plural", for I am not going to answer each individual. 
The boy was not ready to be out at all. It has been a less than amusing experience for him because there are circumstances where he has been forcibly outed.
I think I might add http://www.truluck.com as a little bit of useful reading, and also commend Dusty Pruit as a decent and faith based advisor (http://iomfats.org/spirit/)
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Well it is good to get a bit of background... even if it is in drips and drabs....
Being outed is about the worse case scienerio for any kid... I know... I was outed in my freshman year of highschool...
It's rough... It will be for some time to come...
Now for real advice... Keep your head. Don't let others get under your skin. Try to be as neutral about the gay issue as you can possibly be. That way you will not bring unnecessary wrath down uon you.
The religous issue is a bit harder to deal with because they will try and grill you about the evils of being gay. If your home/school life doesnt emphasize the gay lifestyle then it will be alot easier to side step any religous onslaught that sector could rain down upon you.
Admit to nothing and deny nothing. It is the best way to be true to yourself and placate the powers that be.
Trust in the fact that when you are able to strike out on your own you will be able to decide for yourself how you wish to live your life. In time parents have a way of coming around as well. Some sooner, some later, the thing is to leave the door open for dialogue.
When I was young my mother caused me no end of problems about the gay issue, ask Tim and he can elaborate about the circumstances. No though, my mom actually sends my life mate (Kevin) birthday and X-mas pressies, they exchange recipes and are very good friends. My dad, well he just great.... now that is... we all get on just swimmingly....
So the moral of the story is........
Hope for the best but plan for the worse......
Keep cool.....
Count to 23098742038754 before blowing your top when confronted...... Avoid confrontation by bringing risky actoins into the equasion.......
Be the best person you can be.....
And have a back up plan..... A friend or relative willing to intercede in case of dire emergency..... Gather a private stash of emergency funds as well.....
Just trust in the knowledge that in tims this will pass.....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Marc wrote:
> Well it is good to get a bit of background... even if it is in drips and drabs....
>
> Being outed is about the worse case scienerio for any kid... I know... I was outed in my freshman year of highschool...
>
> It's rough... It will be for some time to come...
>
> Now for real advice... Keep your head. Don't let others get under your skin. Try to be as neutral about the gay issue as you can possibly be. That way you will not bring unnecessary wrath down upon you.
>
> The religous issue is a bit harder to deal with because they will try and grill you about the evils of being gay. If your home/school life doesnt emphasize the gay lifestyle then it will be alot easier to side step any religous onslaught that sector could rain down upon you.
>
> Admit to nothing and deny nothing. It is the best way to be true to yourself and placate the powers that be.
>
> Trust in the fact that when you are able to strike out on your own you will be able to decide for yourself how you wish to live your life. In time parents have a way of coming around as well. Some sooner, some later, the thing is to leave the door open for dialogue.
>
> When I was young my mother caused me no end of problems about the gay issue, ask Tim and he can elaborate about the circumstances. Now though, my mom actually sends my life mate (Kevin) birthday and X-mas pressies, they exchange recipes and are very good friends. My dad, well he just great.... now that is... we all get on just swimmingly....
>
> So the moral of the story is........
>
> Hope for the best but plan for the worse......
>
> Keep cool.....
> Count to 23098742038754 before blowing your top when confronted...... Avoid confrontation by not bringing risky actoins into the equasion.......
> Be the best person you can be.....
>
> And have a back up plan..... A friend or relative willing to intercede in case of dire emergency..... Gather a private stash of emergency funds as well.....
>
> Just trust in the knowledge that in tims this will pass.....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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