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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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I went round for a drink a while back to my son's old violin tutor. We take him a cake for his brithday, he opens a bottle. And we yarn.
He told me of a pupil of his that was not with him currently. The boy is gay. and about 15, maybe 16. And his parents object to his being gay.
A month ago he was shipped with no warning to the USA to be cured of homosexuality. Or that is what we suppose. His parents either live in east berkshire or north west surrey
If he can survive the programme he will return to the UK in August.
If only I knew more I could work to subvert the parents' wishes
It is not love that caused them to despatch him overseas. He is an embarrassment to them
The tutor is horrified. We three, my wife, son and I, were horrified. I can't actually express my horror in words.
I have asked that the boy be given my details if he makes it home. I will help him, if he can be helped
[Updated on: Tue, 28 June 2005 15:25]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I am horrified to hear that.
Do you know who the boy is? Are you able to contact his parents?
Can we sign a petition and send it to them? 
David
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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Contacting his parents is a waste of time. I do not know who he is. Justthat he is 15 or so.
If I knew his name I would be starting to research the US end somehow.
There is no petition in the world that will show these people that they are wrong. What we have to hope is that the kid has the wit to play the game and be "cured". BUT the environment militates against that and towards them enjoying curing him
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Funnily enough, all this only serves to make me happier to be gay.
If being straight means being so ignorant and closed-minded then I'm glad I'm not.
Being gay really serves to let you see the world with a different perspective... the "question everything, because what society thinks isn't necessarily right" perspective.
Though one has to be careful not to go too far, and start despising others for not subscribing to the same point of view. After all, that's what religion does.
Um. Are there closed-minded and irrational and unintelligent gay people? I suppose there must be, but I haven't met any. Maybe they all pretend to be straight and persecute the rest of us, because they can't stand it.
What was I talking about, again?
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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we have met closed minded gay people, bigotted gay people, homophobic gay people even.
Being gay and unpleasant is the same as being str8 and unpleasant.
Perhaps being gay thrusts a certain need for open mindedness upon us. But a closed minded soul will never be truly open minded, gay or str8
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Is it possible for someone to be intelligent and a philosopher and yet still be closed-minded?
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yes....
he is closed to all but his own philosophies, believes himself to be right, incapable of being proved wrong. the sort of person oyu cvannot debate with, because no other point of view has any merit worth considering other than his own...
geez... i hope my dad doesn't catch news of this... much as i want to see america (and certain people there) this is NOT the way i want to go...
Odi et amo: quare id faciam, fortasse requiris.
Nescio, set fieri sentio et excrucior
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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And then there are those proven by default to be right as a direct result of the errant actions of others.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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I know these people exist, but I always assumed that they were simply stupid and did not question what they had been told by other people.
I mean, I believed in God, until I thought about it - before my confirmation - and realised that there is practically nothing to support his existence. So I was open-minded to the possibility that he did not exist, but chose to believe that he did because it seemed morally right to me.
When afterwards I lost my faith, that was also fine; after all, it was more logical. But I still don't have any objection to people who accept that God exists, and live their lives as if he does exist; I do not find the idea of an all-loving God a poor one.
(Though I have grave problems with the Church and the Bible and religious zealotry, which muddy the isssue. But assume that the basic Christian God is infinitely forgiving and you can see through most of them. Pity so many people can't.)
Surely any intelligent person would have to go through a process like that, and consequently become open-minded to the alternative view?
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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You are not under 18. You are not "the property of your parents". While I am sure your father is content on his new found religious sect, and would love to have this deveil's seed removed from your brain, he cannot touch you
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I don't think TBP would be allowed into the USA.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Marc, I was reading the board and for the life of me can't figure out what TBP is. I reread the posts and still didn't get a clue. Would you set my mind at ease....seeing as how I live in the US. Thanks Marc, Jim  ??
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I am guessing he means The Black Prince.
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Though I have no idea what Marc means by that either...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Yup I mean "the black prince"
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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I look at the working parts of a human ear and how precise it has to be to make it work. A MM off here or a MM off there and the vibrations in the air produce no sound...just luck I guess. But then there's the eye, again, what a piece of luck that certain nerves would respond to light in just certain way, to open or close the iris so we can see well in bright light or dim, and focus automatically without twisting a ear or squeezing our noses.
The amazing workings of our stomach; how did the cells that make up our stomach lining learn how not to be effected by the acid that can etch metal and eat away other tissue.
How lucky we have been through the eons, and we did it all on our own, with the help of some very smart cells, that come to think of it, have no brain. I may have to ponder this a little longer. My hands, my feet, my skin...that's a wonder all by itself. My heart that has been pumping day and night for almost 77 years, and my lungs that those smart ass cells designed to take oxygen out of the air and make it ready to mix with blood to be pumped through miles upon miles of tubes of varying sizes to supply just the right ammount of everything to keep all our amazing parts alive.
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I don't believe in this many lucky accidents in our creation, or in the development of other animals and plants. I believe in a creative intelligence that I choose to call God. I don't believe we were created in seven earth days, and in fact I don't believe creation has ended, and that we are still in the process of being created in God's image. At some future time we may reach a perfection of sorts in body, mind and sprite. I think we are better than we have ever been before, and with a few steps forward and a few stumbles back we will slowly progress.
The small minority of good, careing and accepting people are growing year my year and even lacking a majority, but not by much, laws are being changed or new ones written to better the lives of more and more people.
I don't blame the religions of man, created by their free will for gain or power, on my creative God of love. He made me the way I am, and I have never done anything to cause hurt to anyone and help whenever it's in my power, so I have no fear of not having his love in return. I didn't mean to preach, but since others expressed their views on the subject I wanted to let everyone know where I stand.
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I believe in a series of lucky mutations among countless trillions of unlucky ones. But the unlucky ones died out, so the only ones left are the lucky ones. I.e. evolution. Evolution is so wonderfully simple that it almost has to be the reason we are the way we are. It's the simplest explanation that fits the facts. And (if you want it to) it circumvents all the problems with God (why doesn't he talk to us? why does he allow bad things to happen? those old chestnuts). Because he ain't there to hear us.
The eye, for example. It wouldn't have started as a fully formed eye. Perhaps it evolved from cells that were light sensitive in some way (bacterial DNA, perhaps, that was assimilated by the host, or originally fulfilled an entirely different purpose). Think of worms, for example; they can't see, but they can detect light. Over a very, very long time it evolved into something that first could make out indistinct shapes, so it could avoid predators, perhaps, and the better it got the better the animal's chances of survival. Eventually you have the human eye.
(And even the eye is not perfectly designed - look up the optic nerve. It connects to the eyeball in the middle of the retina - a really odd place, as it causes a "blind spot". If you were designing an eye, you would place it somewhere else so that you wouldn't have this problem. Luckily, because you can scan the area around the spot quickly, the brain can cover up the defect so you don't notice it.)
Similarly, the ear. It's not true that you cannot appreciate sound without an ear: you can feel vibrations with your skin. So the ear almost certainly started as a piece of skin, then a membrane, that could detect vibrations in the air or on the ground, first very crudely, then better, and eventually, over millions of generations, evolved a bone structure that could pick up a pin drop.
You can tell I am a scientist - I have an explanation for everyone. Or if I don't, I look for one. (Though unlike most theists, I am willing to change my opinions if I am presented with convincing evidence the other way.) But I agree with almost everyone, theist or atheist alike: the world is an amazing place, nature is formidable and overwhelming, and man is one of its finest (and most terrible) creations.
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