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Zach's father comes out
Steve Koval
Southern Voice
http://www.sovo.com/blog/index.cfm?type=blog&start=7/8/05&end=7/15/05#1589
After reading about how Zach, a Tennessee teen who claimed in a blog that he was forced into an "ex-gay" camp by his parents, I wondered what kind of parent would do that to his or her child.
Thanks to Pat Robetson's Christian Broadcasting Network, I needn't wonder any longer. In an interview posted yesterday, Joe Stark came out as Zach's father.
Stark discussed his decision to send his son to "Love In Actions" camp:
Quote:"We felt very good about Zach coming here because… to let him see for himself the destructive lifestyle, what he has to face in the future, and to give him some options that society doesn't give him today," Stark said. "Knowing that your son... statistics say that by the age of 30 he could either have AIDS or be dead." …
"A lot of things that Zach spent a lot of his time doing were taken away," Stark said. "And I can see why they do it now. It's because, if you're not doing those things, then what are you doing? Sometime or other, you have to communicate with your family. And that's a big thing that has happened in our family — Zach is communicating a lot more with us." …
"To me it's not what's right and what's left, it's what's right and what's wrong," Joe said. "My wife and I will stand by that 'till the day we die, as far as homosexuality is not in God's plan — it's wrong."
It's unlikely that any amount of scientific evidence that homosexuality is not a choice will alter the Starks' belief that homosexuality is "wrong" and "not in God's plan."
So far it's been primarily gay men and lesbians that have been protesting Zach's involuntary reprogramming.
But can you imagine the uproar that would result if a gay couple sent their straight child to a camp so that the child could be reprogrammed to be gay? If the parents claimed they were following their religious beliefs, would that make their actions seem any less outrageous?
Just as states no longer allow parents to beat their children, even if the parents claim the Bible commands it, states should not allow parents to psychologically abuse their children using the Bible as a shield.
There's already enough scientific evidence to demonstrate that homosexuality is not a choice. Gay adults need to draw attention to the continued psychological abuse of gay youth, and demand that the appropriate state agencies step in to offer protection. In fact, that's what is occurring right now in Tennessee.
Protecting gay youth is not a matter of "what's right and what's left, it's what's right and what's wrong."
For the full interview go here:
http://cbn.com/cbnnews/news/050713a.asp
(\\__/) And if you don't believe The sun will rise
(='.'=) Stand alone and greet The coming night
(")_(") In the last remaining light. (C. Cornell)
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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The whole interview is rather scary. Interestingly it leads to CBN, which has Pat Robertson as a commentator.
Why do gay people object so fiercely to this "reprogramming"? My own answer is terror of it. It is not that I wish to be gay. I wish passionately that I were not gay and that homosexuality did not exist. But I know I am not unwell, and I know this is not a "curable ailment"
Those here who are able to be homosexual teens and men are hugely lucky compared with those of us who chose for our own reasons to attempt heterosexual lives. I can tell you that it is imposisble for me to become heterosexual despite yesterday being the 26th anniversary of my marriage to a most wonderful woman.
If the love of a beautiful, good woman cannot cure me, what chance do any of the brainwashing and more horrible methods have? I lived my teenage years in terror of them. Teenagers today live in terror, even if they are lucky enough to be in even good and caring families, of the reaction of their parents the day they do what all kids are encouraged to do. "Talk to me if you have a problem, dear".
Thank God most parents love their children and listen to their hopes and fears, and help them understand and live with who they are. But the child is a possession, and appears to have no rights to reject any form of medical or pseudo medical treatment ordered by the parent.
Zach and boys and girls like Zach deserve better from those who brought them into the world. And they certainly deserve better than people who make a good living out of corrective "therapies"
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Gay Teenager Stirs a Storm
By ALEX WILLIAMS
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/17/fashion/sundaystyles/17ZACH.html?oref=login&pagewanted=print (this site requires registration, go to http://bugmenot.com/ if you want to cheat)
MEMPHIS
IT was the sort of confession that a decade ago might have been scribbled in a teenager's diary, then quietly tucked away in a drawer: "Somewhat recently," wrote a boy who identified himself only as Zach, 16, from Tennessee, on his personal Web page, "I told my parents I was gay." He noted, "This didn't go over very well," and "They tell me that there is something psychologically wrong with me, and they 'raised me wrong.' "
But what grabbed the attention of Zach's friends and subsequently of both gay activists and fundamentalist Christians around the world who came across the entry, made on May 29, was not the intimacy of the confession. Teenagers have been outing themselves online for years, and many of Zach's friends already knew he was gay. It was another sentence in the Web log: "Today, my mother, father and I had a very long 'talk' in my room, where they let me know I am to apply for a fundamentalist Christian program for gays."
"It's like boot camp," Zach added in a dispatch the next day. "If I do come out straight, I'll be so mentally unstable and depressed it won't matter."
The camp in question, Refuge, is a youth program of Love in Action International, a group in Memphis that runs a religion-based program intended to change the sexual orientation of gay men and women. Often called reparative or conversion therapy, such programs took hold in fundamentalist Christian circles in the 1970's, when mainstream psychiatric organizations overturned previous designations of homosexuality as a mental disorder, and gained ground rapidly from the late 90's. Programs like Love in Action have always been controversial, but Zach's blog entries have brought wide attention to a less-known aspect of them, their application to teenagers.
Although Zach wrote only a handful of entries about the Refuge program, all posted before he arrived there in the Memphis suburbs on June 6, his words have been forwarded on the Internet over and over, inspiring online debates, news articles, sidewalk protests and an investigation into Love in Action by the Tennessee Department of Children's Services in response to a child abuse allegation. The investigation was dropped when the allegation proved unfounded, a spokeswoman for the agency said.
To some, Zach, whose family name is not disclosed on his blog and has not appeared in news accounts, is the embodiment of gay adolescent vulnerability, pulled away from friends who accepted him by adults who do not. To others he is a boy whose confused and formative sexual identity is being exploited by gay political activists.
In his last blog entry before beginning the program, at 2:33 a.m. on June 4, Zach wrote, "I pray this blows over," adding that if his parents caught him online he'd be in trouble. He described arguments he had been having with his parents, his mother in particular. "I can't take this," his post reads. "No one can. I'm not a suicidal person. I think it's stupid, really. But I can't help it - no I'm not going to commit suicide - all I can think about is killing my mother and myself. It's so horrible."
The Rev. John J. Smid, the executive director of Love in Action, declined to discuss the details of Zach's experience, citing the program's confidentiality rules. In an interview early this month at his headquarters, a weathered 1960's A-frame building, which was until recently a vacant Episcopal Church, Mr. Smid explained that teenage participants in Refuge are forbidden to speak with anyone the program does not approve of. Requests made through Mr. Smid to interview Zach's parents were declined.
Founded in California in 1973, Love in Action moved to Memphis 11 years ago. It is one of 120 programs nationwide listed by Exodus International, which bills itself as the largest information and referral network for what is known among fundamentalist Christians as the "ex-gay" movement. In 2003 Love in Action introduced the first structured program specifically for teenagers, 24 of whom have participated, Mr. Smid said. The initial two weeks costs $2,000, and many participants stay six weeks more, as Zach has.
The goal of the program, said Mr. Smid, who said he was once gay but now renounces homosexual behavior, is not necessarily to turn gays into practicing heterosexuals, but to "put guardrails" on their sexual impulses.
"In my life I've been out of homosexuality for over 20 years, and for me it's really a nonissue," Mr. Smid said.
"I may see a man and say, he's handsome, he's attractive, and it might touch a part of me that is different from someone else," he said. "But it's really not an issue. Gosh, I've been married for 16 years and faithful in my marriage in every respect. I mean I don't think I could white-knuckle this ride for that long."
Mr. Smid first learned that one of his teenage participants was a cause célèbre when protesters appeared outside his headquarters for several days in early June, carrying signs saying, "This is child abuse" and "Jesus is no excuse for hate."
He was bombarded by phone calls from reporters, he said, as well as by 100 e-mail messages a day from as far as Norway. Zach's writings, which appeared on his page on http://www.MySpace.com, were publicized by one of his online acquaintances, E. J. Friedman, a Memphis musician and writer, who read Zach's May 29 blog entry, "The World Coming to an Abrupt - Stop."
Mr. Friedman, 35, was disturbed by what he read and fired off an instant message. "I said: 'You should run away from home. There are people who will help you,' " Mr. Friedman recalled. "He said: 'I can't do that. I want to have my childhood. If this is what I have to go through to have it, then I will.' "
Mr. Friedman posted an angry message about Zach's impending stay at Refuge on his own blog. Mr. Friedman's friends picked up on the story and started spreading it on blogs of their own. Soon a local filmmaker, Morgan Jon Fox, who had met Zach through mutual acquaintances, joined with others to start a group called Queer Action Coalition, which organized the protests at Love in Action.
"We wanted to show support," said Mr. Fox, 26, who directed a fictional film about gay teenagers in 2003, shot at White Station High School in Memphis, where Zach is a student. "Then it kind of blew up."
Links to Zach's site bounced around the country. Mr. Friedman's Web page had so much traffic, "it blew my bandwidth," he said. Mr. Smid, too, was inundated with Internet traffic, much of it outraged at the attempts to change Zach's sexual orientation.
"All of a sudden, 80,000 Internet hits later on our Web site, the world has decided that he should be freed," Mr. Smid said. "Maybe he didn't ask for this. Maybe he doesn't really have the personality that really is going to be able to deal with this. And they talk about our 'abuse' of him."
The program at Love in Action has parallels to 12-step recovery programs. Participants, referred to as clients, study the Bible, meet with counselors and keep a "moral inventory," a journal in which they detail their struggle with same-sex temptation over the years, which they read at emotionally raw group meetings, former clients say.
Excessive jewelry or stylish clothing from labels like Calvin Klein and Tommy Hilfiger are forbidden, and so is watching television, listening to secular music (even Bach) and reading unapproved books or magazines.
"It's like checking into prison," said Brandon Tidwell, 29, who completed the adult program in 2002 but eventually rejected its teachings, reconciling his Christian beliefs with being gay.
Physical contact among clients other than a handshake is forbidden, and so is "campy" talk or behavior, according to program rules that Zach posted on his blog before he began at Refuge. Occasionally, recalled Jeff Harwood, 41, a Love in Action graduate who still considers himself gay, some participants would mock the mandatory football games.
"You could get away with maybe one limp-wristed pass before another client would catch you," he said, seated on a tattered sofa in a funky cafe called Java Cabana in the trendy midtown district of Memphis.
Because teenagers, unlike adult clients, return home at night, parents are asked to help keep them away from television and, more important, a computer. Zach has not updated his blog since entering the program.
For Mr. Smid and his supporters, offering Love in Action to teenagers is vital to combat what they see as a growing tolerance of homosexuality among young people. "We just really believe that the resounding message for teenagers in our culture is, practice whatever you want, have sex however, whenever and with whoever you want," he said. "I very deeply believe that is harmful. I think exploring sexuality can lay a teenager up for numerous lifelong issues."
Critics of programs that seek to change sexual orientation say the programs themselves can open a person to lifelong problems, including guilt, shame and even suicidal impulses. The stakes are higher for adolescents, who are already wrestling with deep questions of identity and sexuality, mental-health experts say.
"Their identities are still in flux," said Dr. Jack Drescher, the chairman of the committee on gay, lesbian and bisexual issues of the American Psychiatric Association, which in 2000 formally rejected regimens like reparative or conversion therapy as scientifically unproven. "One serious risk for the parent to consider is that most of the people who undergo these treatments don't change. That means that most people who go through these experiences often come out feeling worse than when they went in."
Two weeks ago the Tennessee Department of Health sent a letter to Love in Action, saying it was suspected of offering therapeutic services for which it was not licensed, a department spokeswoman said. Mr. Smid insisted in the interview that his program is a spiritual, not a counseling, center, and he is removing references to therapy from its Web site.
He said he does not track his success rate. Mr. Harwood, who graduated from the adult program in 1999, said that of 11 fellow former clients he has kept track of, eight once again consider themselves gay.
Although critics say such programs threaten the adolescent psyche, at least one teenager who considers himself a successful graduate does not agree. "In my experience people who struggle with their sexuality are more mature in general," Ben Marshall, 18, said. He recounted being in turmoil, growing up gay in a conservative Christian household in Mobile, Ala.
In 2004 his parents sent him to Refuge. "I went to Memphis kicking and screaming," he said. "I had grown to hate the church for the militant message it gave off toward homosexuality."
While enrolled he spent days listening to stories of the pain that homosexuality had caused clients and their families. Slowly, he said, his attitude changed. He ended up choosing to continue in Love in Action's adult program for nine months. While the program has a "high rate of failure," he said "there are enough successes to know I'm not alone."
But even success comes only through continuing struggle. Although he plans to date women in the future, Mr. Marshall said, he is avoiding any romantic relationships for the time being. "In all honesty, I'm just trying to figure out how to deal normally with men before I start to deal with women," he said.
Zach's parents did not reply to a request for comment for this article left on their answering machine. Last week his father, speaking to the Christian Broadcasting Network, said: "We felt good about Zach coming here. To let him see for himself the destructive lifestyle, what he has to face in the future."
In Zach's case there is no indication he was particularly upset about his sexual identity. Although his high school is in a Bible belt city, the student body is fairly tolerant of homosexual classmates, some students said, particularly those who, like Zach, are not conspicuous about their orientation.
"Stereotype me, if you dare," was the motto Zach chose for his blog, where he listed "Edward Scissorhands" and "Girl, Interrupted" as his favorite movies and Brandon Flowers, the lead singer of the alternative rock band the Killers, as the person he would most like to meet.
While Zach, as his blog recounted, only recently came out to his parents, many of his friends had known he was gay for more than a year, one classmate said. Zach openly identified himself as gay on his blog, which links to 213 friends' blogs listed in a Friend Space box on the site.
Zach is due to leave the program next week. His June 4 message expressed thanks for the more than 1,700 messages on his page, many voicing support. "Don't worry," he wrote. "I'll get through this. They've promised me things will get better, whether this program does anything or not. Let's hope they're not lying."
Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company
(\\__/) And if you don't believe The sun will rise
(='.'=) Stand alone and greet The coming night
(")_(") In the last remaining light. (C. Cornell)
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TygerBoiSammy
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Toe is in the water |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 57
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This whole concept so disturbs me.
God made us as we are. He formed us to be as he wanted before we were even conceived. That is what the dogma and teachings of the church i was brought up in tell me. God made me as I am, and I AM GAY!
For some person to believe that they can be God's instrument to change God's own creation from the plan God put forth is not only ludicrous and inciteful, but it borders on the profane and blasphemous.
Dont these ppl realize that by using guilt and acrimony in God's name it's the same as killing the spirit? And according to a certain 4 millennium old document called the Ten Commandments, Killing is wrong.
At what point do we stop usin God as a convenient crutch to hate, hold power over others and generally try to force our own opinons on each other? Surely any deity whose motto is "love thy neighbor" would also understand to respect that neighbors sense of self.
Can anyone help me understand this? All I keep thinkin is, "Poor Zach."
If you ever read this Zach, know that I love u, and I pray for u, and I wish u strength in the days to come. Be true to yourself, brother of mine. All of us here want only for u to b happy & safe.
a friend u don't know yet,
Sammy "Tyger" Frost
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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The issue is that people always want to meddle. I think many gay men will agree that being gay is not optimal.- We are restricted to 5% of the population from which to have a chnace of finding a mate. Str8 people have 45%.
- Sex, for us, has things about it that the body is not well technically designed for
That gives us our own challenges before society wants to impose its will on us. But society was formed along with controls on the members of society. We allow those controls because we consent to be governed.
So Zach's parents consent to be governed by their church. The problem is that Zach neither ocnsented to be governed by his parents, nor by his church. He is treated as property by his parents.
I am a father. I want the best for my son. How should I act is I perceive he is doing something that is not the best for him and if I perceive a way of changing him? Do I not act? Do I act? What do I do?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy wrote:
>I am a father. I want the best for my son. How should I act if I perceive he is doing something that is not the best for him and if I perceive a way of changing him? Do I not act? Do I act? What do I do?<
You have omitted one very important word: love. That means not only your love for him but also his love for you. Mutual love should find a way our of the dilemma of both of you.
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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The word was not absent except by omission.
We love each other. He and I trust each other. I perceive according to all I have ever believed that he is doing wrong but can be brought back to the right road.
He hates the idea. But "kids always do"
What do I do?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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it really depends on the scenierio.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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I agree. I am simply showing how the father is probabaly doing his best despite ot not actually being best for his son.
However I abhor any form of brainwashing, and know as a parent I could never have committed my child for it.
But what if my son had joined a cuolt? Would I then be justified in grabbing him and "deprogramming" him?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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OK......
Is the boy's father wrong for sending him to be "righted"
No..... he is not wrong.
That being said....... answer this......
Is the church wrong in its teachings? Is it wrong in it's policies? Is it wrong in it's practices?
The answer to all three is YES THE CHURCH IS WRONG.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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And there I agree totally.
The parents have hitched their wagon to the wrong horse. In trying to do their best for their son they have accepted and implemented incorrect advice. They have harmed their child and harmed their relationship with their child.
We must this be careful that we criticise the correct parties in this, whcih I think we are doing.
"Love in Action" sucks bigtime.
The wider this message goes the greater will be the number of those who hear. And of those perhaps some will listen.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Mostly correct.... In as much as we can tell.....
But as far as wagon hitching.... Religous fidelity tends to go back generations.....
The parents are also victoms here.....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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TygerBoiSammy
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Toe is in the water |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 57
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I would argue that religion bein wrong here is only part of the bigger problem. We had an experiment in social studies class in 7th grade. We formed a line and the instructor told the person at the front of the line a simple verse of prose. I think the originl line was something like "the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog."
The person that got the end message said it was something about "a fast green truck delivers hot dogs."
The original goal of religion in most places is still the same, but the message has been distorted from the ancient texts by ppl. Some ppl distort it out of translation troubles, others out of ignorance, others by simply a different point of view. Its the ones that distort it for gain and authority that piss me off.
I think perhaps if we foret about organizing fr religion and just go back to communin direct with god we'd be better off. Its tough changng a belief, but u can always appreciate changes in a good idea.
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The father made his decision based on information published on love in action's web site. These "statistics" and "scientific studies" would be laughable except for the damage that their appearance on the site seams to be causing.
One site:
http://www.inoohr.org/homosexualstatistics.htm
http://www.loveinaction.org/
they seam to have deleted there links page.....
exodus international (umbrella group over love in action:
http://www.exodus-international.org/
(I understand that the original founders of exodus are now happily married... to each other) ::-)
(\\__/) And if you don't believe The sun will rise
(='.'=) Stand alone and greet The coming night
(")_(") In the last remaining light. (C. Cornell)
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Forgot one.
This is for "Refuge" which is the name of the camp Zach is staying at. the full name is "Love In Action Refuge", or L.I.A.R. 
http://www.asafeplace.org/default.aspx?pid=4
(\\__/) And if you don't believe The sun will rise
(='.'=) Stand alone and greet The coming night
(")_(") In the last remaining light. (C. Cornell)
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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The challenge you face is that any "god" is an industry with employment for priests, secretaries, managers, stonemasons, clerks, roofers, chafrity workers and so much more besides.
Then here are the people in the traders who supply the church with food, drink, paper, cqandles, floor wax.....
All of these people have a vested interest in the religion. Some of them may also share the faith
I am not saying they are bad people. I am just saying their livelihood is there because of the "god industry"
Faith requires none of this. Communing with your god requires none of this.
The god of the book of genesis did not require this paraphenalia.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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it comes again to the point about livelihood.
If one is unscrupulous one can make an excellent living from conning decent folk out of their money for quack remedies. No snake oil salesman will readily admit that his potion is useless, or harmful
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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While religious fidelity does run in theblood, I charge the parents with stupidity. They are the adults here. They have a duty of care. They failed.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy wrote:
> The god of the book of genesis did not require this paraphenalia.<
But the God of the book of Exodus did!
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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Well, by that time people had started to get organised! And careers were now available in the God Industry.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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TygerBoiSammy
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Toe is in the water |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 57
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does anyone know zach's blog addy.... i'd really like to read it.
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Actually, I find it significant that Zach's latest post refers to "homosexuality", where the previous (now deleted) posts as far as I remember talk about "being gay".
It seems highly likely to me that this post (the pre-updated version made only a couple of days after Zach came out of L.I.A.R.) would have been discussed with his parents and others, and, while it may represent a genuine initial reaction to his experiences, his views may evolve as he re-enters normal life (as much as he is allowed to). The updated version suggests that he continues to struggle with his experiences.
I think that Zach is to be commended for not wanting to be a "poster-boy" for gay activists - that's a very healthy attitude. Those of us (including myself) who reacted to the oppression of our developing years by becoming vocal advocates of equality need to recognise that our success will be achieved when "being gay is just part of who I am" is a viable option for everyone, that the world has moved on in many ways from the days of our own youth (thankfully!), and that our obligation is to support others in the way they ask for support, not they way we think they "ought to be" be supported. After all, the latter is what Zach's parents did!
I will continue to actively fight so-called Fundamentalists, because my own stuggle is partly about reclaiming Christianity from the the bigots trying to claim it as their own. I wil continue to fight the ex-gay movement, and any other intolerance that makes gay people have to focus on this aspect of their lives disproportionately. But to try to manipulate others - Zach or anyone else - to be icons in this against their will would definitely be wrong. ( It was different when Zach was not able to communicate with the outside world: he had not given up the right of communication voluntarily ).
At the same time, I hope that Zach's submission to the parental restrictions is temporary and tactical ... he is clearly hurting, and my prayers are that he is able to survive the next couple of years, and will feel able to go away to a college of his choice where he can explore all aspects of who he is in the context of a fresh start. But in the meantime, I repect his desire to be allowed space to re-establish himself.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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I don't think anyone likes gay political activists much, in the same way that no activists are really "liked". Howver human rights activists are necessary.
Zach is at an age where he rightly wishes to be an independent being. Look at all our younger people here and in the past and you see that. He probably never expected his blog to be picke dup in the way that it was and is not unreasinably embarrassed because the activity around it has exposed him very personally. It must be hard to be him right now.
He is totally right. He is not "the homosexual teenager, Zach". He is Zach who happens to be homosexual and who may or who may not live his life according to his nature rather than his nurture.
Equally the activists are right to continue to pursue organisations who do abuse. If LIA abuses in any way then it should be stopped. If it brainwashes then it should be stopped. if it genuinely shows alternatives then it shoudl carry on, under supervision.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I should really have started a new thread, rather than resurrecting this old one. (Timmy - can you move the posts around?)
Anyway...
Yes, while I would imagine that his "new blog" is highly censored, I should think (through personal experience):
i. he felt enormous relief on getting out
ii. it has not substantially changed his attitude
iii. he does not want to "rock the boat" any further
When one comes out of a place like that, the last thing one wants is endless references to it -- as an "ordeal" that has changed your life forever. It must be a hundred times worse to think of thousands of other people discussing your life behind your back.
If he wants to maintain a decent relationship with his parents, he must be prepared to move on and (hopefully) forget about it. If he wishes to bring the subject up again when he comes of age, that is his choice. But at the moment, the more anger he shows the greater the chance of upsetting the rest of his childhood.
The reason I am annoyed at the campaigners is that they don't seem to take this into account. It would be a victory for them if they got the place shut down and Zach's parents' prosecuted, or something, but in fact the best thing for Zach is to let his life go on as normal.
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Deeej wrote:
> The reason I am annoyed at the campaigners is that they don't seem to take this into account. It would be a victory for them if they got the place shut down and Zach's parents' prosecuted, or something, but in fact the best thing for Zach is to let his life go on as normal.
I absolutely agree that "the best thing for Zach is to let his life go on as normal". And that any future campaigners against L.I.A.R. must keep Zach out of it. But I think (from discussions I've had in other places) that many - perhaps even most - of those of us who are seen as "activists" feel similarly: unfortunately, a decision NOT to take part in any future campaigns on this doesn't really show up!
I'm sure that Timmy's right when he points out that "no activists are really "liked"." Apart from anything else, if one feels strongly enough about anything (access/disability issues, Routine Infant Circumcison, whatever ...) to be an activist, one risks becoming a bore on the subject! But there's as much diversity among those who are seen as activists as there is among any other group of people - my own activism is centred around allowing people to be who they choose to be, and appreciating the diversity that gives rise to. Now that Zach is able to express his own views again (even if possibly under some pressure while doing so), it's entirely right to give him the space he has asked for.
as usual, just my own point of view - "your mileage may differ".
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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Most of the local (Memphis) activists have backed down and seem to be giving Zach the space he needs to process all he has been through. But some seem to take his new blog entry VERY personally.
Zach wrote:
"....The emails sent before this date are going to be deleted-- when I get around to it. I'm sorry, it's just overwhelming. I ask that if you aren't a close friend, or good acquaintance, to please keep it short and to the point. I don't need things to be sugar-coated, nor do I need them to be thoroughly explained. I just want to do what I can for the wrongs to be corrected. The media, in my opinion, has made a bit of a mess of things. But, I suppose they did what they could with what they had.
I understand the concern, and I sooo appreciate everyone caring as much as they seemed to have. I REALLY do. But, I'm still alive. I don't believe I've been brainwashed. It's almost insulting, thinking about it, to be brainwashed. I think that I'm going to be ok. I could write forever on how content I felt when I signed on, because of all of the messages, comments, etc.
I'm not going to allow myself to be pressured into a response of any kind - im trying my best....."
Someone who identified herself as Zach's friend wrote that he has started a new blog under a different name that only his close friends know about.
(\\__/) And if you don't believe The sun will rise
(='.'=) Stand alone and greet The coming night
(")_(") In the last remaining light. (C. Cornell)
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The following is from the blog of one of the memphis activists who organized the demonstrations at love in action:
"With Zach's return, it all started to seem like a wash for many people on the internet, all of whom have been bandying about secret double meanings to his blog entries, trying to figure out what he's about, get inside his head, or whatever people on the internet do when they read stuff. Message boards and forums about the issue, as well as blogs, have been picking apart the minutiae of his writing for weeks, and they treated his first words as if it was a call to arms by their fearless leader.
Several of those people have really lost their fucking minds. They forgot that he is a 16 year old boy, that all he really wanted was for someone to speak out about the program and what they would inevitably be doing inside based on the rules. The ex-gay watch movement existed long before Zach ever appeared on the internet, it's just that people in the massive of world culture were not as aware of its existence -- so he asked some of the people on his friends list to bring it to light. We did. We spoke out, coalitions were formed, media was contacted, people were furious and aggravated as to what was happening.
But even at the beginning, we were all worried that when the media attention to Zach's blog and his story expired, what would become of the movement? Would people abandon it? Hey, what if Zach came out and he was actually ex-gay? What were people going to do?
The movement that exists right now should do so based on the issues, not on the person, as it always has. People have tried repeatedly to make Zach the poster boy for gay civil rights, for the ex-ex-gay movement, for youth rights -- pick something here, everyone glommed onto Zach because he represents the good in all of us being oppressed by something out of his own control.
Because of Zach's few words, in the last two months this story has gone from a small number of blogs to major gay publications, all the way up the journalism chain. To date, a number of major news media have become directly involved in this story. The New YorkTimes, Good Morning America, CNN, Oprah Winfrey requested an interview, TV Globo in Brazil --- we are talking about worldwide coverage. Activism has been awakened in thousands of people who had long since given up the fight. Margaret Cho blogs about it. People around the world are patently aware of what goes on in places like Love In Action now, and it scares, concerns, and outrages them.
But Zach did not sign up to be the poster boy of the movement.
He's not an activist. He's not a martyr or a rebel. He may seem like a symbol to some people, but there's one other thing he is that everyone seems to conveniently forget: he's a 16 year old kid who went through this program so that he could have his childhood.
Instead, without meaning to, everyone involved in pushing his story has outed him to the whole fucking world in the same amount of time it took him to go through this program.
In two days time, people reading his words have gone from supportive and understanding to lividity that their comment was deleted from his blog because, probably, he was VERY overwhelmed by all of this and, at the end of it all, he does not want this to be his life.
Now that we all understand that Zach is not the focus of this any longer, are people all planning to abandon ship on the real issues at hand? I sure hope not -- that's exactly what Love In Action and programs like it want you to do. If you jump ship on it, then they don't have to deal with all the fussing and fighting as they field requests for information from thousands of potential new applicants. They want this to die down so that they can keep operating outside the law, unlicensed, performing reparative therapy which is known to be dangerous, and receiving untold thousands of dollars for it every year. You're totally naive if you don't think people will step up and ask these used car salesmen to help them fix their gay -- they do it all the time, and nobody is doing anything about it.
If you're still thinking about why you're mad at Zach for coming out and not wanting to jump right in and play ball with you, then any attempt at forcing these places to be in compliance with medical standard disappears.
If you're still angry at Zach for deleting the comments that you left on his blog, then your machinations are transparent.
If you're going to sit around and mope because Zach has asked for his privacy, then it's true, after all.
You never cared about what happened to him at all, did you?"
for the full article go here:
http://www.cherrybloss.org/2005/08/if-youre-still-dribbling-it-might-be.html
(\\__/) And if you don't believe The sun will rise
(='.'=) Stand alone and greet The coming night
(")_(") In the last remaining light. (C. Cornell)
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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I think, hope, we have not made this lad the focus of anythimg except our hostility to thise who seek to cure the incurable.
We all have a picture of Zach. But what he will be is a normal, healthy, opinionated 16 year old lad who happens also to be gay. It is time for his hopes and his ambitions to become his own again.
I know he will never see this. Even so I wish him well. May he be the best Zach he can be and put this well behind him. And may his life become private again, for thsi worldwide outing has surely not helped his future unless he can put it all behind him.
If we have a role here at all it is to seek to condemn those who force their ideas on others. That includes parents who do not or will not hear when their child says "I am gay". But our condenmation must not be dogma either. To condemn without leading the way is as bad as the bigots.
People here looked on in horror at LIA. More than one feared he might be sent to such a place were he to cone out to his parents. I spoke to several boys and advised simple caution. None out of 10 comings out go well enough. It is the tenth that is the challenge.
The message is "Pick your time". Most parents are awesome. Most try very hard to understand. Some have a facade of understanding. Others truly understand. A few are bigots.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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From what I have read on Zach's blog he seems to me to be a survivor and I aplaud him regardless. The worst thing we do as humans is the pain we inflict on our children. Some don't survive it and I weep for them. Zach will survive.
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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Has anybody noticed recent changes on Zach’s blog ? He’s now Zach trapped in retrospect and sexual orientation gay dissappeared .
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He has been told by his father not to post to his blog anymore. You will also notice that comments have been disabled.
I think he his doing what he has to, to get through the next two years of his life. In Tennessee, where he lives, until he is 18 he is basically the property of his parents. They can pretty much do what they want with him ( so long as no physical injury results) and I think he is trying to appease them.
(\\__/) And if you don't believe The sun will rise
(='.'=) Stand alone and greet The coming night
(")_(") In the last remaining light. (C. Cornell)
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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It actually does not matter who is controlling this blog. What matters is that this young man has a sense of security about his home and living arrangements so he can reach adulthood intact.
"Zach" is not the poster child of the Anti "anti-gay" movement. He is a kid. And he needs to be left in peace to be a kid. Otherwise we are as much at fault as the more strident of the "gays can be cured" lobby.
He has to get through this and find college and employment unsullied by this horrible incident.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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The myth and lies of the garden of eden 
Re: Zach's father "comes out" 
