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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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Hello Matthew~
My name is Deacon, and in way of explanation, first of all; No, no relation whatsoever to Jamie's, (Grasshopper) wonderful character in his brilliant tale; “Just Hit Send/Summerfire/In A Heartbeat” et al. I have been on the web and the Internet since the early days in the 1980's. I am, what my friend and web author Comicality once referred to as an “ancient one.” One of the most gratifying experiences of my life has been to watch the growth of a vibrant and active Gay online community, especially the genre of Gay Romantic fiction. Along the way, the authors forums and story sites, places like Timmy's here, have come into existence, which has made it possible for kids like you, to have a “window” in their personal closets in world that they live in.
Enough drivel about that and me, let's dive into the deep end of the pool young Matty, shall we? I have carefully considered your plea and was very interested in the tenor and nature of the responses to your post thus far. All carefully crafted, well intentioned, and on point. However, then too, it seemed to me that an answer pertinent to your personal environment was necessary and I took the liberty of contacting a dear old friend of mine who is a “bishop” in a Mormon stake just outside of Ogden, Utah. What follows is a recap of the discourse between us in that phone conversation. I can only pray that, possibly, some of what we discussed will assist you as you commence to explore your options, and take measure of your circumstances.
The official position of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is that homosexuality is a sin and as such, is incompatible with Church doctrine, values, and practices. The exception my friend noted was a two fold response.
First, that if a person was to acknowledge his/her gender bias and yet not “pro-actively engage” in that behavior and or repented, then that was acceptable. When pressed further, he stated that there are Gay folks within the various stakes and communities of the church world-wide who abstain from the physical expression of their “bias” that continue to be members. Hence the Church would condemn the practice but not the individual.
Secondly was if an openly Gay person who would desire to continue within the Church, that person lose membership and be stricken from the membership and limited to Church attendance only. Not exactly shunning per se, but a limited form of it. Of course for a younger Mormon that would exclude them from any Missionary work, or attendance at Brigham Young or other Church related functions or institutions.
I asked him whether or not the Mormon practice of shunning by removal was a possibility. His response was that he really felt it was highly dependent on the personal circumstances, character, and history of the individual and happenstances within that stake or community at large. He also noted that because of the very high values placed by the LDS Church as an institution on family, making allowances for age and parental rights, ie: the person is a minor, then the response most likely to occur first would be that of the Elders, Deacons, and Bishops attempting to counsel and reach an amiable halfway point. However, this was only if the individual were to abstain from ANY acknowledgment of Homosexual activity or beliefs. I translated that to mean that if the person remained closeted, then this was an acceptable behavior as far as the Church was concerned. He agreed.
He also noted that given a younger person's lack of natural maturity, there was undoubtedly going to be pressure brought to bear especially by family members to “change” or influence the young person and motivate them towards more acceptable behavior that falls within the “norm” as accepted by the church at large. He pointed out, that because the “practice” of homosexual behavior is deemed aberrant behavior and not part of God's plan, then the emphasis would be placed on counseling to “guide” that person towards “acceptable” and “normal” sexual behavior and thought.
I then pressed him on a more personal level Matthew, as I was curious to see his response. The question that I posed was; “IF a young man, teen, well liked and respected with no prior history of any kind of “abnormal” behavior, applicable to LDS convictions and beliefs, were to come out to you, how would YOU deal with it as a church Elder?”
His response was interesting. Partly stemming from the fact that he has lived and worked his entire life within the heart of Mormon country there in Utah. He stated that he felt he would first ascertain the reasons that the young man felt he “had” to be Gay and felt the “urges” to act upon those “impulses.” Then, he would steer that young man towards a counselor that could assist the youngster in “correcting” his thoughts and steering him towards more “acceptable” ones.
I then pressed the Bishop further. I told him I saw his response as a “given” yet I was more interested in his PERSONAL reactions. He told me that he genuinely “felt” for Homosexuals and was saddened by their “circumstances.” Continuing, he also noted that as long as the individual was remaining the same in character, save for the “urge” to “practice” homosexuality, he would not view that person in a wholly negative light and would not feel obliged to “shun” or exclude that person from his life, on a personal level.
We then discussed the conflicts that stem between the Church as a Theoretical Institution with it's applied convictions and doctrine and the personal relationships on a spiritual basis between a person and a deity as such. Does one's relationship with “God” not overshadow one's relationship with the institution if the conflict is a matter of interpretation of spiritual belief and practice?
His viewpoint was interesting as he pondered that question Matthew. He paused for a moment and then said to me that he, personally, really took no affront nor exception to gays and Lesbians, in fact, he went so far as to state that his best friend that he went on his mission with as a young man ended up being Gay and that they were still close friends to this day. The conflict that he has is that he still feels with the whole of his being that homosexual relations are abnormal and contrary to God's teachings and the beliefs of the church. He then said that he would counsel the person to make peace with God first, and then family second, and then possibly just remove themselves from any controversy by excluding themselves from the Church. He said that above all, there must be a way, method, or other means to retain familial relations.
I then thanked him for sharing his thoughts and then hung up.
Matt, I guess I need to follow that up with a couple of thoughts here kiddo. And I am going to quote a section of young Jamie's work, in fact, this is from his latest piece, “In A Heartbeat.”
"Are you ashamed that you're gay?"
The question hung in the air. Marcus finally replied, "I always was. My parents made me feel dirty and I never reached out to anyone. Suddenly, with Quin, it feels right. Like this is what I was made to feel. Is that how you feel about Josh?"
"Oh lordy, what I feel for Josh can't even be put in words. He's my world. You know, he told me something that my father used to say and I think it works for you: "You love who you love, you want who you want". Your heart doesn't see the walls."
"Did you really know you loved Josh from the very start?"
"It's like he always tells me....I loved him in a heartbeat."”
Above in that paragraph Matty, I placed in bold for emphasis a critical point that Jamie made via his character I need you to reflect on and at length. It is a “truism” of life that will forever be there, regardless of society, church, or other's beliefs. I'll repeat it; “ You love who you love, you want who you want.” Jamie really nailed the essence of it all with that simple statement.
Matt, your spirituality, your relationship with God, those are your own, deeply personal matters and quite frankly no one else's business but your own. Being Gay Matt, does NOT mean that you have to take the politics of the bedroom and throw it out in the open for all to see and comment on. Being Gay Matthew, is no more than your gender bias for an intimate relationship with another human being, it really is that simple. Re-read Jamie's statement, it truly is that simple.
I don't know if any of this helps Matt, but if nothing else, here's another spin on your plea.
Be Well Youngling, and Take Care of Yourself....
~Deacon
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Worship the God....
Not the church....
God knows what he is doing....
Men of the "cloth" usually just stumble along....
and rarely get it right...
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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Sounds pretty similar to the response I got from my Bishop, he was a doctor, though, specialising in anusology so I guess he'd be inclined to be at least a little gay tolerant. Matty may not be so lucky- I have met some very closed minded Mormons in my time who do not follow the teachings of the Church at all. But I hope he is lucky enough to have a tolerant bishop. In some ways having a loving Christ-like bishop makes it even harder to leave the Church, though, you can't just brush them off as a bunch of bigots.
The church stance to being gay is actually quite well summed up by a verse in the Book of Mormon; Mosiah Mosiah 3:19 "For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father."
To Mormons being gay and having "same sex attraction" is not a sin, it is on par to being cursed with a temper to some degree. Just because you naturally have temper control issues that doesn't mean it is right to act on them and beat people up whenever you get angry. The natural man, the base man is an enemy to God. A repressive view, but one that was pummelled into me from birth so I can still see its merits. Being gay is a trial, a temptation and an affliction, no reasonable Mormon doubts the challenges it entails, yet it is seen as something that can be overcome with and through Christ. A view I wholly disagree with.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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