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You are here: Home > Forum > A Place of Safety > General Talk > Early warning signs of gayness
Early warning signs of gayness  [message #25818] Sun, 28 August 2005 02:25 Go to next message
kevy is currently offline  kevy

Getting started
Location: Sandusky
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 7



Dr. James Dobson and his loving organization Focus on the Family has graciously provided the world with this list of warning signs that boys ages 5 to 11 may be experiencing unnatural gender confusion. They recommend that if the child is exhibiting one or more of these "symptoms", he should be taken to a counselor or therapist who believes that it is possible to change the child's sexual orientation.

The page also includes a link to a page of contact info for therapists and retraining facilities such as Exodus, Intl.

I read through the list and can remember exhibiting at least five of these "warning signs" as far back as I can remember. See how you fair.


http://www.focusonyourchild.com/develop/art1/A0000684.html
Re: Early warning signs of gayness  [message #25822 is a reply to message #25818] Sun, 28 August 2005 10:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800



The awkward thing about his site is that much of it is the set of acts any rational and loving parent would take to seek to ensure that their son is happy.

The issue is with what happens "downstream" rather than the list of aparent "symptoms" of homosexuality.

The area that aggravates me as a masculine homosexual man is the insistence on effeminancy as being a symptom (ewww!) of homosexuality. I see many effeminate heterosexual men and many masculine homosexual men.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Early warning signs of gayness  [message #25826 is a reply to message #25822] Sun, 28 August 2005 15:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Guest is currently offline  Guest

On fire!

Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344



The one sure sign of "gayness" is overlooked.

and there is one sure sign that is exhibited in ALL gay persons.

Can you guess as to what that sign is?

I will give you all one week to come to the answer.
Re: Early warning signs of gayness  [message #25828 is a reply to message #25826] Sun, 28 August 2005 16:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deeej is currently offline  Deeej

Needs to get a life!
Location: Berkshire, UK
Registered: March 2005
Messages: 3281



Attraction to the same sex? Smile

Is this a trick question?
Re: Early warning signs of gayness  [message #25829 is a reply to message #25818] Sun, 28 August 2005 16:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deeej is currently offline  Deeej

Needs to get a life!
Location: Berkshire, UK
Registered: March 2005
Messages: 3281



It seems to me simply that an ignorant editor has put the wrong title on the article. The article refers to Gender Identity Disorder, and not homosexuality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_Identity_Disorder

Gender Identity Disorder is, I would guess, something that it might be useful to address at an early stage, as it seems to cause a lot of people to become deeply unhappy with themselves. Whereas homosexuality is more accepted by society these days.

Perhaps we should email the person who runs the site and ask them to change the (misleading) title?
Er  [message #25830 is a reply to message #25829] Sun, 28 August 2005 16:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deeej is currently offline  Deeej

Needs to get a life!
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Messages: 3281



Having just posted that response, and having persuaded myself that it wasn't something worth getting worked up about...

...I started looking at the other pages of the site.

I'll take my previous comment back. While there may be some true information there, it is mixed in with so much disinformation and bias that there is nothing there that is actually likely to be useful.

They say they have forums. If they are a genuinely useful family-oriented site, then they won't mind if we post a few times, pointing out that making judgements on someone's sexuality from their mannerisms is not very useful, especially before puberty.
Bad style  [message #25831 is a reply to message #25830] Sun, 28 August 2005 16:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deeej is currently offline  Deeej

Needs to get a life!
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Messages: 3281



I wrote "useful" three times in three sentences. Whoops.
Age of consent  [message #25832 is a reply to message #25830] Sun, 28 August 2005 16:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deeej is currently offline  Deeej

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Messages: 3281



http://www.focusonyourchild.com/develop/art1/A0000687.html

"There is a vigorous homosexual-led campaign now under way to end the taboo."

There is? I thought there was a vigorous everyone-led campaign to make the taboo so strong that, in America, an 18 year-old can be tried for rape for having sex with a 17 year-old, and in the UK you can be attacked for being a paediatrician...

In the UK, there was a campaign to lower the age of consent, but that was to equalise it with the heterosexual age of consent, at 16.

Also, throughout the entire site they seem to refer to homosexuality as a "gender-identity disorder". Are they willfully confusing the issues, or are they just ignorant?
Re: Er  [message #25833 is a reply to message #25830] Sun, 28 August 2005 16:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800



IN general any popsts on such a site, unless very subtly worded, are deleted as being combative or are treated as canon fodder by the anti-gay institutions that run them.

I have never truly understood why the fact thjat a perosn is gay shoudl make them less of a person and "in need of curing".

The argument they put forward on the age of consent is spurious, for the argument used to lower ages has been one of equal rights. However I know people of 60 who have not the wit to consent to sexual activities and should not be allowed to try it!

If only people would try very hard to understand that peole are people, and that we have rights as people, how much simpler their lives would be

I do stand by my thoughts that any parent of a gay child who is a normal parent has concerns about how their child will cope with the world and its prejudices. I do see how tempting it is to seek to "cure" your normal child who happpens to be gay. Yet this is the same as the couple some years ago who were each blind and wanted a child genetically modified to be blind so they could have a blind baby. You get, or should get, what comes along.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Answer  [message #25834 is a reply to message #25818] Sun, 28 August 2005 16:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deeej is currently offline  Deeej

Needs to get a life!
Location: Berkshire, UK
Registered: March 2005
Messages: 3281



Anyway, I'll actually answer Kevy's question, now.

1. A strong feeling that they are “different” from other boys.

Well, I did from about 11, but as the "warning signs" apparently exist from ages 5-11, I would have to say no.

2. A tendency to cry easily, be less athletic, and dislike the roughhousing that other boys enjoy.

No, yes, no.

3. A persistent preference to play female roles in make-believe play.

Not at all.

4. A strong preference to spend time in the company of girls and participate in their games and other pastimes.

No. I knew very few girls.

5. A susceptibility to be bullied by other boys, who may tease them unmercifully and call them “queer,” “fag” and “gay.”

No.

6. A tendency to walk, talk, dress and even “think” effeminately.

No, no, no and no. I don't think I have ever "thought" effeminately. Unless "thinking" effeminately is noticing that a boy is good looking.

7. A repeatedly stated desire to be — or insistence that he is — a girl.

Nope.

I can say with certainty that, if somehow my parents had picked up that I was "going to be gay", that any "counseling" would have been infinitely damaging. Telling me I was going to be gay before I was even aware of it? I would have grown up either trying to prove that I was heterosexual, or being ashamed of being gay.

I'll shut up now.
Re: Er  [message #25835 is a reply to message #25833] Sun, 28 August 2005 17:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deeej is currently offline  Deeej

Needs to get a life!
Location: Berkshire, UK
Registered: March 2005
Messages: 3281



I've signed up to their site using my real name. Apparently a post takes up to 72 hours to appear in the forums, so undoubtedly they are screened.

If I ever manage to get in, I will post a very polite, non-combative message pointing the fallacies in
- their statement that there is a "vigorous homosexual-led campaign now under way to end the taboo"
- the implication that homosexuality necessarily has something to with being confused with one's gender identity

I don't suppose I'll be able to get an interesting discussion going, but I'll see what happens.
icon7.gif Re: Early warning signs of gayness  [message #25836 is a reply to message #25828] Sun, 28 August 2005 17:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deeej is currently offline  Deeej

Needs to get a life!
Location: Berkshire, UK
Registered: March 2005
Messages: 3281



My sarcasm detector must have been switched off today...
Re: Age of consent  [message #25837 is a reply to message #25832] Sun, 28 August 2005 22:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nigel is currently offline  Nigel

On fire!
Location: England
Registered: November 2003
Messages: 1756



For those interested the age of consent in various countries of the world can be found at

http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm

Interesting that it stands at 17 in Northern Ireland, but at 16 for the rest of the Kingdom.

Hugs
N



I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.

…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
icon8.gif Re: Early warning signs of gayness  [message #25892 is a reply to message #25822] Thu, 01 September 2005 09:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TygerBoiSammy is currently offline  TygerBoiSammy

Toe is in the water

Registered: January 1970
Messages: 57



bein a young masculine homosexual male who is mostly attracted to other masculine homosexual males, i kinda dont see that supposition. maybe it's different for different people. but i have to admit, those that i am attracted to, other masculine homosexuals, they tend to be attracted to the same. Oh, we're as sappy and lovey dovey with each other as any other couples, but we're also attracted to each other's strengths.

so for those that think homosexuality is about weakness, boy r u fools in for a surprise, LOL

I am Tyger, hear me ROAR!
Re: Answer  [message #25896 is a reply to message #25834] Thu, 01 September 2005 10:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NW is currently offline  NW

On fire!
Location: Worcester, England
Registered: January 2005
Messages: 1561



> 1. A strong feeling that they are “different” from other boys.
From certainly aged 5, and an awareness that I was emotionally & physically attracted to males.

> 2. A tendency to cry easily, be less athletic, and dislike the roughhousing that other boys enjoy.
Probably - mainly from around 7-15 / I never liked team games, but my enjoyment of my own body in physical excercise was pretty much beaten out of me by my fathers insistence on being competitive (I used to love running, but NOT competitively) / roughhousing is good: lot of physcial contact with other boys!

> 3. A persistent preference to play female roles in make-believe play.
Never.

> 4. A strong preference to spend time in the company of girls and participate in their games and other pastimes.
No: didn't really know any (single-sex schools from aged 6).

> 5. A susceptibility to be bullied by other boys, who may tease them unmercifully and call them “queer,” “fag” and “gay.”
Teased badly about all kinds of things, and probably did some it myself too - but sexual orientation was not a major topic.

> 6. A tendency to walk, talk, dress and even “think” effeminately.
No to the first three. I'm not sure what thinking effeminately is - the women in my family tend to be stronger, cleverer, more assertive, more competent and more successful than the men - so in this sense only I probably did think more like female role models than male ones!

> 7. A repeatedly stated desire to be — or insistence that he is — a girl.
God no!


However, I clearly was rather bookish, quiet, fond of my own company and possibly a bit over-intellectual as a child (in many ways I still am!). All things that my father regarded as being 'unmanly'. Until my parents separated when I was 15 I had to endure a great deal of abuse (emotional, verbal, occasionally physical) from my father over this.

As a settled adult - say from my mid-20's onwards - I think I have been generally seen as prety "masculine". I do a lot of conventionally male things (do-it-yourself including electrics, plumbing and bricklaying, car maintenance, I used to shoot {US=hunt} a fair bit, have always been seen as strong and competent at work, etc) and have been told on a couple of occcasions that people don't believe I'm "really" gay because my general demeanour is so conventionally male. But I'm absolutely out to everyone, and also enjoy cooking, decorating, gardening, ... things that are more conventionally thought of as female. In short, I can fix a leaking heating system, or sew on a button or replace a damaged zipper with equal facility.

So, I don't think homosexuality has anything al all to do with the gender identity issues. I know a number of gay men who have become hyper-masculine (possibly as a reacion to the risk of being thought effeminate? ...). I also know a couple of rather camp guys, one of whom is straight.

In fact, I think it could well be argued that biological males who gender-identify as women, and are sexually attracted to men, are NOT gay, but are in fact trying as best their physical body allows to be "straight". And everything that I've read about gender identity issues suggests that the identification is made VERY young - well before the aged of three - so attempts to dissuade kids from identifying in the way they need to are as misguided, harmful, and ultimately doomed to failure as attempts to change sexual orientation.



"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
Re: Answer  [message #25898 is a reply to message #25896] Thu, 01 September 2005 13:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
davethegnome is currently offline  davethegnome

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Location: United States
Registered: January 2005
Messages: 204




Since the topic of Gender Identity Issues has come up I was wondering if anyone had seen the movie "Ma vie en rose". It's a french film that was put out in '97. It is really good.



It's always the old to lead us to the war
It's always the young to fall
Now look at all we've won with the sabre and the gun
Tell me is it worth it all
~Phil Ochs "I Aint Marching Anymore"
Re: Answer  [message #25899 is a reply to message #25898] Thu, 01 September 2005 13:45 Go to previous message
Guest is currently offline  Guest

On fire!

Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344



Title.......................Ma Vie En Rose
Genre...............Comedy / Drama
Country of Origin...Belgium/France/U.K.
Language............French
Date................1997
Director............Alain Berliner
Writer/s............Alain Berliner, Chris Vander Stappen
Also Known As.......My Life in Pink (1997) (USA)

Yup... Good film...
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