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The group is called Groundswell and is touring the country pushing their own version of bigotry.
From their web site http://groundswell2005.org
"Groundswell is a conference that will train and equip concerned parents, educators, youth workers and students to transform the public schools with a powerful response to homosexuality. The conference is hosted by Exodus International, the leading Christian ministry for those affected by homosexuality, in partnership with Focus on the Family. Drawing on 30 years of experience responding to homosexuality, we will provide you with the answers your community needs.....
....Groundswell is an initiative that will train and equip concerned youth pastors, campus ministers and students to respond to homosexuality among our youth. Groundswell training conferences provide a half-day conference that equips youth workers with the practical training they need to help struggling youth and reach out to gay-identified students.....
....Do you know students who struggle with unwanted same-sex attractions? Do students in your youth group talk about friends at school they think might be gay? We will train you to reach out to gay students with Christ's love in powerful authentic ways and to discuss homosexuality intelligently."
They were just in Seattle yesterday and their next scheduled "Conference" is in Boston (actually in Quincy) on December 3, 2005 at Eastern Nazarene College.
Just in case you are interested in "visiting" the conference, directions are here:
http://enc.edu/main/aboutenc/directions.html
Contact info for the school:
Eastern Nazarene College
Main Campus
23 East Elm Avenue
Quincy, Massachusetts 02170
(617) 745-3000
800) 88-ENC-88
info@enc.edu
(\\__/) And if you don't believe The sun will rise
(='.'=) Stand alone and greet The coming night
(")_(") In the last remaining light. (C. Cornell)
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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People love to tout their dogma around the vulnerable and to bully and coerce and victimise.
The message that you have posted needs to be spread widely. PLease woudl all of us do this spreading?
If you want to understand religious bigotry may I suggest http://iomfats.org/storyshelf/hosted/grasshopper/ to you and that you read Beyond the Rain.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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There are already programs in place to deflect the effects of groups like this..... (and they have been around for a great long while)
There are also laws in place to force school administrators to allow these programs to be in schools.
And I think it is important to remember that dogma comes from all sides of any issue.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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And yet Martin Luther King was dogmatic, right, and effective, though dead whne his effect became reality. Miss Rosa, who refused to give up her bus seat was amazing.
It is right to oppose by all lawful means the things that we do not agree with. Each of us is one drop of water. Together we are a raging and unstoppable torrent.
They have the right to be heard, I am sure of that. And so do those who oppose them.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I hope you will not object to me having posted the contents of this message and thus spreading your concern at JeffsFort.us
We take such "information conferences" as seriously as you yourselves, and know that this is just another cover for an attempt at "straightening" gay teens.
I have reproduced the information from Timmy's email so that anyone who wishes can follow the links. (including Grasshopper's story.)
Unfortunately I get the impression that there will be more and more of these groups trying to confuse our youth who may only be passing through the undenied "semi-homosexual phases" that quite a lot of youngsters experience around the time of puberty. The realisation of what damage these people may have on these youngsters is horrific, and yet they relentlessly persue these unfortunate youngsters without thought of the consequences.
Give honest, helpful guidance, YES! But to bludgeon them with religious claptrap is obscene.
I caught up on Graeme's story 'New Brother' the other day, and found he had cleverly written into it a bit about the religious angle. Now I haven't read the Bible from cover to cover and have no immediate intention of doing so. If anyone can show me where is says that JESUS condemned homosexuality, then I'll be pleased to read it! Oh there were plenty of others in there who condemn it, yes, but not the man himself. He did mind you, think to mention 'covetting thy neighbour's wife' though. A fact seemingly conveniently forgotten by quite a few who profess to damn homosexuality.
It seems to me that this approach is one of the strongest arguments in response who would condemn anyone who is gay. It's no good getting into slanging matches taking quotes from the bible to suit the moment. There are enough religious nuts who do that. It's MUCH easier to stick to the facts.
All he said effectively was "Love thy neighbour as thyself" to use the old fashioned terminology. He didn't make any exceptions to that apparently.
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To add to what Mike.G said---
The one thing that I recall Jesus speaking out against--and he did it again and again and again--was the religious elite of his day.
The religious leaders of his church.
The priests and rulers of the temple.
If you want some interesting reading, read Matthew Chapter 23 where he is scathing in his refutation of the religious rulers.
Jesus spent his time with those who were considered below contempt by the religious elite. Now fast forward to today... What groups are considered below contempt by today's religious elite? Is there a lesson to be learned from that? I truly think there is.
John
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Mike.g wrote:
>All he [Jesus] said effectively was "Love thy neighbour as thyself" to use the old fashioned terminology.<
The command "love thy neighbour as thyself" predates Jesus by many centuries. It is to be found in Leviticus 19:18 (sandwiched between chapters 18 and 20, both of which contain the perennially misunderstood command concerning men lying with men).
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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Ah yes, quite correct. Lev ch19 v18.
""Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I [am] the LORD.""
I do not wish in any way to argue over Leviticus. I am merely pointing out that Jesus was not a gay basher insofar as we are told and can perceive. It does not appear that it holds good for all who wrote books that were collected together to form the Bible.
It's more a wonder that no one has started a war over the bit that refers to man "being made in God's image" - oopps! I seem to remember something like that; correct me if I'm wrong. The main question would then be exactly whose image? Hehehe. I bet I know what certain fanatical groups would claim.
The simple fact remains, however: at no stage did Jesus diss the homosexual community. Don't tell me there wasn't one. It's not something that was invented in recent times.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Jesus traveled with a group of followers. This much is documented fact...
But what is not generally mentioned is that these "followers" were in their early to mid teens..... Not by any means the aged figures depicted in the art used to represent them......
Now..... I ask you seriously..... What sort of man goes about through the countryside, recruits boys to "follow" him....
I think there is good and valid reason as to why Jesus never mentioned homosexuality.....
It doesn't make sense to throw stones at ones own glass house....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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Whether your thoughst are right or wrong here, the truth wil have been so massaged by the scribes of time that we will never know.
Do we have any true idea of the "morality of the age" with regard to same gender, and especially male/male relationships? Was it like the Greek model of ancient times?
Do we also have documentation that refers to the age of the followers? And imporantly what was the average lifespan then and "adulthood" in order to put this into context?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Marc wrote:
>But what is not generally mentioned is that these "followers" were in their early to mid teens.....<
Hi Marc. I would very much like to know your source for this.
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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since you may not have seen it the first time and because I am genuinely interested. Please, what is your source (or sources) for the claim that all or most of the disciples of Jesus were youngsters?
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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This was based on a time line compiled from the Bible as well as the variants of gospels not included. Also refer to the writings of Flavius Josephus.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Thanks, Marc. Can you be a little more specific? I do have access to the works of Flavius Josephus, so if you could just give me a reference that would help. Sorry to be a nuisance. 
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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No problem...... I have notes somewhere.... I will let u know asap...
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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No Message Body
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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I am going to write them a "friendly" non-insulting but very clear idea of my view..."misleaded youth and youth-workers"...
Let me finish this message without any deregatory remarks about groundswell and site, but i am clearly apposed to their "reforming" strategies. Hope they get some kind of message. Donderse Bliksems.
A truth told with bad intent
Beats all the lies you can invent
-William Blake
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I am going to write them a "friendly" non-insulting but very clear idea of my view..."misleaded youth and youth-workers"...
Let me finish this message without any deregatory remarks about groundswell and site, but i am clearly apposed to their "reforming" strategies. Hope they get some kind of message. Donderse Bliksems.
A truth told with bad intent
Beats all the lies you can invent
-William Blake
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Marc wrote:
> No problem...... I have notes somewhere.... I will let u know asap...<
Anything to report yet?
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Well the thing is...... there are about 30 boxes of documents in my basement and it will take some time to run through them.....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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