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I know this is an old topic but i've come across some old news reports about the Love in Action organization, they convert homosexual christian youth's against their will into "heterosexual" people through a strict list of rules and prayer. I believe it is all scare-tactics from homophobic religious men.
I want to know what peoples thoughts on this is. I personally think it is an outrage, how can parents put their already fragile child through something so horrifying, and all against will???
Time is lifes currency, spend it well.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Paents can do this for many reasons. The "best" reason is because they have been told that they will be bad parents if they do not do it.
As a parent I know precisely how easy it is to be blackmailed into doing something. It is exceptionally hard to resist something someone with an ulterior motive says is good for your child.
An example is surgery.
Millions of parents worldwide are told by surgeons "Your child has an ear infection called 'glue ear'. To cure this we need to operate and install grommets". Glue ear is a self limiting aiment and goes away by itself.
We were told "If you do not have this surgery for your son you are bad parents."
Millions of American boy babies are circumcised every year, usually in great pain. This is "for their own good" but it has no medical benefits. Same deal.
Now with this as a background it is easy to see that "A little bit of prayer and contemplation to allow your child to learn that he or she is not homosexual" is an easy thing to say "yes" to. This is especially the case where "homosexuality is a sin" and "you will burn in hell for producing a sinner" (yes, parents get told this).
After all, LIA argues that it is just a religious retreat. "What can possibly be wrong with that?"
The issue is not really LIA. The issue is wondering why other people have the right to want to change a part of their kids. It is very different if an adult says "I wish to undergo this proogramme". That is free choice. But to say "I wish my child to undergo it" is horrible. However it is infinitely preferable to the psychiatric techniques that used to be used to "cure" us.
We were once treated to a battery of "treatments" including:- Electro Convulsive Therapy
- Insulin Shcok Therapy
- Lobotomy
- Massive hormone treatments
- Aversion Therapy
- Execution
this was somewhat more terrible than the LIA crap.
It was done to us "for our own good", apart from execution, of course. It was done because we were "eviants", and it was done "that we might have better lives".
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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I abhor LIA and all that it stands for, but I sometimes think that in terms of logical argument we don't do ourselves any favours.
In general, gays proclaim confidently that homosexuality is something we are born with, but the academic jury is still out on that contention. OK, there has been some interesting research, but (and I know I'm repeating myself!) irregularities in the brains of sheep don't necessarily have any relevance to human sexual orientation. I could cite other examples, but you get my drift?
That doesn't mean that it's a choice. Many of our personal characteristics are influenced by early-life or even pre-birth experiences, and it is by no means impossible that homosexuality is one such characteristic. If that were so, then - in theory - the condition could be reversed by aversion therapy; not necessarily by electrodes, but by psychological pressures. The point is, we humans are a touch more complex than the animals used to validate aversion therapy; any attempt to move the needle on the orientation indicator from homo- to hetero- is likely to mess up other character traits and to cause untold damage to the 'whole person'. It's not unreasonable to view personality as a tower built with matchsticks - remove one near the base and the whole edifice may come crashing down.
So (he said with uncharacteristic brevity!) I think Skylor's second paragraph gets right to the heart of the matter. Whether we are gay by nature or by nurture, it seems beyond doubt that the fragility of the subjects makes LIA's approach positively dangerous. I don't know whether any specific research has been carried out, but it certainly could be, and the concept has much wider application than the gay/str8 interface.
In short, we should oppose LIA in every way possible, but the basis of our opposition should be the potential for psychological damage rather than the mantra that homosexuality is inborn and cannot be changed.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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OMG and people wonder why Im scared to death for my mom to find out.
Not sure where to find this, but some doctors did a study and found that the female brain is smalleer than the male (has no effect on intelligence). they looked at Homosexual men and guess what. the brians in homosexuals was the size and weight of female brains. since this is genetic in females,,then it goes that its genetic in homosexuals. They were looking for the gene that was the cause.
Dont shoot me I just read this in the paper. So if you wonder why im not much on the GOD thing and GOOD Christians. This LIA thingy is a good example.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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LIA does not claim to "cure" homosexuality, just to teach people to supress their "impulses" (their word not mine). In other words they teach their clients to lie to themselves and to others. How very Christian....
Love In Action ... Refuge
L.I.A.R.
(\\__/) And if you don't believe The sun will rise
(='.'=) Stand alone and greet The coming night
(")_(") In the last remaining light. (C. Cornell)
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I grew up lying to myself and others.
It lasted until I was 48. Or I managed to hold out until I was 48. so it "can work" to an extent.
I wa able to act on faloling in love with a girl, I was able to marry and to function sexually, though with some impaired enjoyment. I have a fine son.
But if anyone wants to understand the torture of all of this maybe they should read the stories I wrote while at last coming to terms with all of this. They look like chocolate box romances. So read again and see the undercurrent of sheer terror and anxiety.
Woudl I have had this terror as gay in the 1960s and 1970s? I have no idea. I know it would have been different. But that i all I can say.
A conclusion is that, with dtermination, every gay man can act wholly heteroexually. So "Love In Action" (yuck) "works" as a technique. But it expires. And it caues huge stresses inside you.
And that reason alone is enough to fight against it.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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The brain thing is research done on transgender male and females, I saw it on a documentry. The L.I.A.R. thing is funny.
Time is lifes currency, spend it well.
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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You're right Brian, there is some published research on the lines you suggest. However, like almost all research in this area, it isn't widely accepted because of the limitations of the sampling techniques. For example, how do you define 'gay'? As Timmy suggests in his post, some guys who are inherently gay can adopt a heterosexual lifestyle, and of course there is every shade of gayness from the 100% gay through the whole bisexual spectrum to the predominantly str8. Because of social pressures, there are those who subconsciously suppress their orientation and may never accept that they are gay. And of course many studies depend upon the honesty and integrity of the research sample in determining who is and who is not gay, but can this really be relied upon? In short, the best that can be said for the research to date is that it presents a persuasive case for the argument that sexual orientation MAY be influenced by genetic factors.
Apologies, E.J., for misleading use of English; I said that 'the condition could be reversed', but I should have said 'suppressed' rather than reversed. So far as I know, no-one has ever claimed that aversion therapy in any of its manifestations can do more than suppress a characteristic. Of course, Love in Action IS using aversion therapy - applying psychological pressure to induce a change of behaviour - and as I said above, this can result in severe damage to the whole personality of the subject.
Timmy's experience clearly shows the damage that can be done by the very existence of organisations like LIA - your life can be screwed up by the fear that parents would seek a 'cure' even if your 'guilty secret' never emerges from the closet.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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My dad's boyfriend suppressed and denied his sexual orientation for some 30+ years, when I met him he had just came out, and that was just on the internet. He was very shy about himself and eventually he became confortable about himself around family and friends. My dad and his brothers being gay made it really easy for me to come out and to be comfortable with myself, so I can't really comment on being scare to 'come out'.
Time is lifes currency, spend it well.
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Hey Skylor, You are so lucky. There is no way I can come out to my mom. I dont trust her. She would probably have one of her boyfriends suppress me, or at least scare it out of me. there probably is a God, but hes not a friend of Pat Robertson.
The fear that Timmy speaks of is still there, depends on where you live, my life would be absolute hell if the kids in school found out. Ive seen what happens to them. Its not fair and not right that I have to be afraid of who I am, but the "Good" christians are seening to that, and Bush is helping them.
Lets make Hetrosexuals illegal and send them to aversion therapy. See what happens then, see how they like it.
Ok IM thru rantting
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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