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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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NO spoilers in here.
The underlying story is sad. it coiuld be an awesomely weepy movie. I am sure the story was weepy in the extreme.
I managed one minor emotional moment, and that was because I was determined to.
The scenery was good. The best character for me was sheep number 17,691. An Elk has a sad scene, too.
The makeup was not wonderful. The characters never made more than 2 dimensions. I so wanted to like one, or the other. Neither was likeable.
What a shame.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Timmy??? Are Americans more emotional than the British? I havent seen the movie, wish I could, said somethig to mom about going. I got the faggot and queer lecture. When Im at the mall i see the customers coming out of the movie and they are all crying and stuff. Must be somethig to it, even the girls cry.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I see "Emperor's new clothes" and a bandwagon to jump onto. Ok the final scene was just capable of making you weep. But that was really "only just". I am as emotional as anyone. This movie did not cause anything worth a candle. It was more compelling than "Dude, where's my car?", but I got more out of "Sister Act".
It is a milestone, yes. It is a gay themed story, kind of. But it was bad cinema. I hope it will have some posiitve effect for gay men and women, but it was so poorly done.
"Wilde" was more of a gay milestone than this movie, you know.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Wow, "more compelling than "Dude, where's my car?", but I got more out of "Sister Act"" Thats harsh, I haven't seen it yet but I guess if neither of the main characters are likeable then that makes sense. Thats a shame. I had high hopes. I think you are right about people jumping on the bandwagon and whatnot. I see that as hopeful. I'm in Oklahoma right now in the heart of the bible belt so I think it would be interesting to see it here and look at the demographic that is also watching the movie. I wish I would have been here when it first came out and people didn't realise the movie had a gay theme. That would have been interesting I think to see peoples reactions.
It's always the old to lead us to the war
It's always the young to fall
Now look at all we've won with the sabre and the gun
Tell me is it worth it all
~Phil Ochs "I Aint Marching Anymore"
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Understand that it is not the story I found so tedious. The story is angst ridden, deeply emotional and sad.
But what a waste of a good story this cinematographic treatment is.
To make this fly you have to make your audience have a hero. Neither of these men were heroic, though their internal struggle was heroic. But an internal struggle is not a movie hero.
I did not care if Jack or Ennis lived or died. I did not care about their families, their lives nor any part about them. Better direction, and maybe a better screenplay, could have made me like them, or like one of them.
I feel cheated. I was so looking forward to it. I took my wife to it. She said "That could have been such a great film. But the director wasted all the emotional bits and I was bored stiff." If I'd rented the dvd we'd have stopped watching.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I always feel that the story is better than the movie (exception: LofRs) I haven't seen the movie, prolly won't, but I have read Annie Proulx's short story and the screenplay. Her story made me cry as I imaged the lonely road Jack and Ennis were trying to walk. How impossible it was for that time and impossible in that place. I liked Jack and wanted to help Ennis finally cry.
Annie Proulx said that this wasn't a gay cowboy movie but a story of destructive rural homophobia. I agree. Her words painted a spare picture.
I guess when you hand a story to a director, you see what he sees. A movie forces its position on you while the words of a story let you fly free. I think I'll stick with my books.
But, ya gotta love Jake Gyllenhaal. Now, please share about the elk 
((hugs))
GH
"You have your way. I have my way. As far as the right way, the correct way, and the only way - it doesn't exist."
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Ah the elk.
Well he had magnificent antlers and a great death scene. I guess that gives none of the plot away.
I am just so disappointed in the way the movie turned out. It could have been so much better. It means I don't want to read the story
And I saw nothing much about homophobia. There were two shock items and one generic 1960/70/80 undertone.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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David,, If Oklahoma is in the bible belt then Im in the buckle. This is the seat of more faiths than any other state. The opening here was awsome, even good christians went to see it. Wish I could see it just to get an better idea of who Is right, but I bet 9 out of 10 Timmy probably is. Only gay movies I ever saw was Too Wong Foo and torchsong trilogy. so i dont know about sister act and the others. All I know is if it got the people here ranting about it it had to be something.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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Hummmmmmmmmm, If the highlight of this movie is a dead Elk, then maybe I dont want to see it so bad.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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Rigel
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Getting started |
Registered: May 2005
Messages: 9
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De gustibus non disputandum est.
I read the short story, and then saw the movie. I'm not sure Timmy saw the same movie I did, because I loved the movie. It was an accurate to include almost all the details of Annie Proulx's short story, but expanded it to make the wives and famliies into real, full-blown characters, who suffer from having men who are not faithful to them.
It was about a forbidden love, and the tragic events set up by that situation. In olden days, forbidden love might have been about crossing social or economic classes, or religious or ethnic divides, but the frontier of love in today's society is same-gendered love, so that's the territory this modern version of the classical tragic affair inhabits.
I thought it was very emotional. The publicity about "gay cowboys" comes from a line used in the South Park tv show, where Cartman asks if independent films are all about "gay cowboys eating pudding." the charcters in Brokeback Mountain meet while herding sheep, not cows, and whether or not they are gay is a subject opne to discussion. They probably are, but they are so deeply repressive of their homosexuality (especially Ennis! as was required by anyone who lived in the rural intermountain West in the 1960s). And there's no pudding either.
I think it's one of the best films I've seen in the last couple of years. Heath Ledger's performance is amazing. The film deals with repression-of love, of gayness, of emotions and passion, and Ledger's ability to show this repression could well win him an Academy Award.
Yes, the geographic stickler in me WAS bothered, because the film was shot in Alberta, where the moutains are too closed-in for Wyoming. The transition zone from Great Plains to the Rocky Mountains covers most of the state of Wyoming, and many of the mountains there have a sense that they overlook a valley which belongs in the Great Plains. In Alberta, the transition zone is jsut a few miles wide (okay--a few kilometers wide, since Canada has gone metric  ), and the mountains west of Calgary have the wrong feel. That's the worst I could say about the movie, except perhaps to criticize Jake Gyllenhaal's mustache, which looked like an amateurish paste-on in some high school production (or maybe he's just got the type of upper lip that just doesn't grow a convincing mustache).
Go see it!
--Rigel
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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For me the entire movie was just bleak and empty.
In order for the forbidden love to mean anything at least one of the lovers, and ideally both, had to be likeable. With likeable heros (and this is hard without giving the ploy away) any tragedy involving one or both of them becomes worthy of the director.
Knowledge of the book first allows you to bring to the cinema all the intimate knowledge of the characters that the author of the book gave you, but the screenplay and direction were not such that they allowed any emotional commitment to the characters.
I think the director could have done so much better. And that is what has annoyed me so much.
He is credited with making "the definitive gay cowboy love story", or some other such exaggerated thing, but what he has made is a poor rendition of a heart-rending short story. The movie is "Emperor's new clothes".
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I found it a disappointing movie and too long. I even got a bit bored in parts of it.
Neither character is particularly likeable.
I also found the dialogue difficult to follow (not that Heath Ledger says much), but maybe that's us Brits having trouble with the accent!
Yes, there were undertones about homophobia, but it was as much about two characters trapped in the lives they led through choices they made after they had first met each other.
I thought this movie might make me cry, but it didn't because the characters were not sympathetic enough. The ending was sad, but could have been done better. And by then I didn't particularly care.
I'd still like to read Annie Proulx's story. I think I rather wish I'd read it first.
Jake Gyllenhaal fans can read an interview (no spoilers) here: http://www.metro.co.uk/metro/interviews/interview.html?in_page_id=8&in_interview_id=1252
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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The reviews on IMDB start with effusive praise. I wonder if any of them had actually seen the movie! After a few pages praise and brickbats come with pretty much equal measure.
Part od this movie's appeal in the US market is the fact that it appears to have been rated "O" for "Obscene" and given a very narrow circulation in art theatres. This gives it scarecity value and people have to believe it is more than it is when they come to view it. It reminds me of the Buzz Lightyear toy a few years ago at Christmas. Make a poor thing scarce and people will flock to it.
A good director will take even a poor screenplay (do note that a screenplay is not the book, it is an adaptation of the book), and make it live in our heads. Ang Lee seems to believe hsi own publicity that he is a good director. In his genre he may be. This is not his genre.
Even a taciturn sheep herding cowboy can be made likeable. Heck, we liked Clint in A Fistful of Dollars. He never spoke much!
Each of the actors is capable of a good performance. Ledger seems to have been directed to be wooden. Gyllenhaal was just pointless, slightly fey, and just about sad. There is one good meal scene where he brings power to the screen, but it's lost in the dross.
I am not sure that the movie does not do "Manly gay men" which is, I suppose, what this is about, a disservice.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I was in Florida during the time it opened but I can imagine it was about the same in Oklahoma as from where you are. I imagine you are correct in saying Timmy is right which is dissappointing. I've seen my fair share of gay themed movies thanks to torrent sites. It seems they are either pretty darned good or just pretty darned bad. There doesn't seem to be much middle ground. I wish I would have been here when it came out to here all the ranting. I have a large number of homophobic friends that I imagine would have something to say about it which would have been amusing.
Take Care man and good luck living in the bible buckle,
David
It's always the old to lead us to the war
It's always the young to fall
Now look at all we've won with the sabre and the gun
Tell me is it worth it all
~Phil Ochs "I Aint Marching Anymore"
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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I haven't yet to see this movie but planned to do so.
Long before Ang Lee went to Hollywood, he directed a movie called "The Wedding Banquet", which also has a gay theme. It is about a Taiwanese Chinese man living in US with his American lover. The couple tried to pull the wool over his conservative parents when they came over from Taiwan to vist him.
It's interesting and gathered some movie awards.
Ang Lee's work are pretty diverse, "including the clash-of-cultures comedy The Wedding Banquet (1993), the Jane Austen period romance Sense and Sensibility (1995), the 1970s suburban drama The Ice Storm (1997),Ride with the Devil (1999,) the martial arts epic Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (2000), and "The Hulk" (2003).
It is amazing how his work (for most of the times) manage to win over the critics. More so than the public.
link: http://who2.com/jeeves/anglee.html
cheers
Ena
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Hi Ena ~ You mentioning The Ice Storm made me remember when I watched that a couple of years ago. It's a very weird picture of US lifestyles in the 70s. The parents are so self-involved trying to find themselves 'sexually' that their kids are wandering around in a huge vaccuum. There was only one character in the film that I cared about. Lots of characters, but all very into themselves. Mikey (Elijah Wood) just couldn't deal.
We won't even think about why anyone would make a movie about The Hulk :-/
I reread Brokeback last night and I see again the difference the words make. Ennis and Jack, in the short story, are not Hollywood handsome. They are just rough, 'only went to school cause they had to', worn down boots, rather homely guys. Ennis has never expressed himself in words, never will. His world consists of finding a ranch hand job of some sort to make enough money to last until he can find another. The terms self-esteem and positive thinking have never troubled him. Jack enters his world, but its not enough to make him reach for something bigger. It's like the seasons; they change.
I think people who are disappointed in the film were expecting more depth than Ennis is capable of expressing. Perhaps that's what Heath Ledger saw and tried to convey.
But then, what do I know
GH
"You have your way. I have my way. As far as the right way, the correct way, and the only way - it doesn't exist."
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Rigel
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Getting started |
Registered: May 2005
Messages: 9
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Grasshopper writes:
"I think people who are disappointed in the film were expecting more depth than Ennis is capable of expressing. Perhaps that's what Heath Ledger saw and tried to convey. "
In fact, Ann Hornaday, reviewing Brokeback Mountain for the Washington Post, had exactly that problem:
"A sweeping, solemn, self-serious chronicle of the men's relationship over several decades, "Brokeback Mountain" possesses handsome and sympathetic lead players, magnificent scenery, heartbreaking melodrama, righteousness and cultural import. But as a testament to the importance of following one's passion, it's devoid of one crucial thing: passion."
(To be fair, Ms. Hornaday takes note of more than this, (see
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/15/AR2005121502059.html for the whole of it.) Yet that brief excerpt was used as the capsule review of the movie in subsequent weekend sections.
Repression of passion is one of the major themes of the movie (and the short story).
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Rigel wrote:
> "A sweeping, solemn, self-serious chronicle of the men's relationship over several decades, "Brokeback Mountain" possesses handsome and sympathetic lead players, magnificent scenery, heartbreaking melodrama, righteousness and cultural import. But as a testament to the importance of following one's passion, it's devoid of one crucial thing: passion."
>
> Repression of passion is one of the major themes of the movie (and the short story).
Well, yes. But one should not mistake the repression of passion as a topic for being without passion when expressing that topic as a movie director.
It was obvious that Ennis and Jack were passionate about each other (though not from the words they spoke [or in Ennis's case mumbled], nor from their actions), but there was no fire in their eyes. The story is passionate. In your head, but not on the screen the characters are passionate.
A relationship does not last that long as a "quick fumble". There has to be passion or one simply does not bother.
But that is interpreting the story, even when it was brought to the screen in such a wooden manner.
Ang Lee totally failed to show the huge angst that repressing passion creates. And that angst is a passion in itself. This movie should have seethed with controlled and repressed passion and been black with hidden desire. Instead we got "Crouching kitten, hidden gecko"
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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Talking about The Ice Storm reminded me of the time where I highly recommended it to a friend as it received very good reviews from the (newsapaper)critics. And oh boy... I sure got a blasting from my friend cos she absolutely hated it and had wanted to walk out of the movie half way through. All the more so, when she realised I haven't watch the movie either ;-D
Maybe it's a good thing that my high expectation of Brokeback is dampen as it may actually help me to enjoy it more.
I found that watching a movie after having read the novel is mostly a letdown (e.g Silent of the Lamb). But sometimes I get inspired by the movies and went to read the books (e.g. English Patient and Lord of the Rings). BTW, King Kong was unexpectedly good and not over hype as I anticipated (or maybe I enjoyed it cos I didn'y have much expection of it.)
cheers
Ena
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To believe that movies must have a clear-cut hero/villain dynamic is simplistic. The beauty of this film is that it does not create "iconic" gay characters; they are conceived as real people living out a very real tragedy that 70s-80s America has forced on them.
Both Protagonists have positive and negative character traits, which are expounded upon as the film progresses, the cinematography is breath-taking without calling attention to itself (recalling classic American painters such as Hopper), and - above all - the story doesn't feed you the sugar-coated relationship garbage it could have; instead it forces one to ponder the circumstances that lead to the ultimate conclusion of the film.
The "likeability" of the main characters should not be an issue. It CAN help an audience if the main character is an ideal human being, but the main criterion is not that they must LIKE him or her but that they must EMPATHIZE - a criterion in which the movie succeeds admirably through superb character development.
I will expect "Brokeback Mountain" to collect close to if not all seven of the awards for which it was nominated.
viðrar vel til loftárása
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Ok, I should empathise with either of these guys. My own life has been one of unrequited obsessive love. But no. I can identify with neither. Instead I wondered half way through why I'd paid good money to watch it.
It was more like watching mould grow on a loaf of bread than a movie.
If it was meant to be a painting then it almost succeeded. It was more like a cigarette advert though, except they had a punch to them.
A different director was needed. This should not have been a bland movie, but it was.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Technically, this film is probably one of the best this year. I believe Ang Lee did a great job of matching his directorial style with the subject matter, creating a very slow, purposeful mood. Remember, this is a filmmaker who is very versatile, going from "Crouching Tiger," to "The Hulk," to "Brokeback."
Also, I did not say that the film was meant to BE a painting, but merely that it evoked classic American works. Good Art will always reference previous works in other mediums as well as its own.
I can tell you a hundred reasons why, cinematically, this is a good film, but the truth of the matter is that ultimately, one's opinion will override such talk. If you thought it was terrible, then you thought it was terrible; I've seen many films that are technically fantastic, which I did not find personally engaging. It happens all the time. In this case, my gut happens to agree with what my mind is telling me, and apparently for some, that is not the case, which is fine.
viðrar vel til loftárása
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Machelli wrote:
> Technically, this film is probably one of the best this year. I believe Ang Lee did a great job of matching his directorial style with the subject matter, creating a very slow, purposeful mood. Remember, this is a filmmaker who is very versatile, going from "Crouching Tiger," to "The Hulk," to "Brokeback."
Seems he was better with animations and special effects. "Jack of all trades" springs to mind
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I have not yet read the story. I have the same high expectations of it that I had of the movie.
I want to be very clear. I am criticising the movie and the huge wasted opportunity. This story is likely never to be filmed again, which is a huge shame.
So I am angry at the director. Golden globes or not I feel badly let down.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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I've been reading comments from other forums and some really love the movies while there are others that share Timmy sentiments towards it.
Hence, I'm looking forward to see this movie, simply because I want to see why it generates such an extreme range of feelings.
Here's the link to an interview the author has with Advocate on BBM for those interested.
http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid23486.asp
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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I guess we all have different perceptions of what we see and hear, and nowhere is this more evident that in our perception of feature films.
In another current post, Deeej refers to the Lindsay Anderson cult classic 'If ...'. That was loved or hated with a vengeance - I loved it, and not just because of a certain cute cast member who (I seem to remember) also caught Timmy's eye! Another example was 'My Beautiful Laundrette', which most of my friends hated but I absolutely loved. Both films were (at least in my eyes) wholly allegorical, but no less enjoyable on that account.
Then there is 'Beautiful Thing'. I know Timmy didn't enjoy the film but, again, I did, though I thought the ending was a bit of a cop-out.
As regards Brokeback Mountain, I confess that I haven't seen it yet, but my wife and daughter have, and they both loved it. I would describe both of them as 'gay tolerant' rather than 'gay friendly' (well, they tolerate me, at any rate!) but they found depth in the characters which Timmy, as a gay man, found lacking. Go figure, as our rebellious colonial cousins would say!
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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i know this is an old discussion and i apologize if i shouldn't be replying to it at this late date, but i've been on tour and only had a chance to see the film tonight for the first time, and after reading all the comments on here, i thought i would share my own experience since it is so opposite from some that are posted here, especially timmy's. this is only my personal opinion and reaction to the film and i dont expect anyone else to agree with it. we all come from different perspectives, backgrounds, lives, locations, cultures, etc.
i came to the movie without reading the story. i had only seen a few tv commercials. i am not a fan of either star and know next to nothing about either of them. so i would say it was a pretty "clean slate" all things considered.
when i walked out of the theater 2 hours and 15 minutes later, i was experiencing so many emotions... to me, the film, the entirety of it - the characters, the story, the emotions, all of it to me, was haunting, beautiful on so many levels, and bittersweet. i couldn't stop thinking about it. i couldn't stop thinking about them. it was like i knew them.
all the way home, i was silent and lost in thought. i plan to see it again soon if i can.
i actually know guys who are so much like ennis. to me, he was a strong, vulnerable, wounded, beautiful man. i can totally identify with why jack loved him so fiercely. he was such a good man, but so tortured and afraid of who he was. but when he was alone with jack he could be so free and happy.
and i know guys who are just like jack. shy and playful, dashing, sweet, and caring.
and also to me, both of them had all the standard cowboy attributes...from the "aw shucks, its weren't nothing" modesty to the "watch this" overgrown boy bravado. the honesty, the introspection, the polite, respectful way they spoke to others, and the explosive violence they used as a way to deal with their emotions. it rang very true to me. every cowboy from clint eastwood to john wayne has always exhibited these characteristics. as someone who has a large extended family that lives in rural areas, i have known/know many men who were just like this.
cowboys have always been portrayed as very uncomfortable with love, uncomfortable with feeling or showing any tender emotions which are seen by their peers and themselves as weakness. they have been taught their whole lives to be strong. a man doesn't cry. a man doesn't make a big show of his love for someone whether it be his child or his sweetheart or his favorite horse or dog. they just aren't comfortable with their feelings so they express it in weird ways....usually by being very gruff. lots of fathers FEEL love for their children, but they don't ever come right out and SAY it nor are they able to show it very well, but somehow their kids KNOW it.
i found the whole thing totally believable. i found the characters to be exactly like people that i have known/know in real life.
another thing that i was surprised about - surprised myself - was my reaction when they casually mentioned laramie. i think this story was written what...25 years ago or something? maybe the reference to laramie was added to the script, i don't know. but as soon as the words left their lips in a casual conversation it triggered a very strong gut reaction in me and i immediately thought of matthew shepard. i highly doubt that i am the only one with this reaction.
if matthew shepard could be so brutally murdered in wyoming in 1996, i can only imagine what it was like in the early '60's. and another thing i thought of - in the laramie project, while they were interviewing the limo driver, he actually he drove matt to colorado because, "there are no gay bars in wyoming." think about it for a second. THERE ARE NO GAY BARS IN WYOMING. The ENTIRE state...and this was the late 90's.
anyway, for what it's worth, those are my honest reactions to this film. to me it was totally honest, haunting, beautiful, and bittersweet. i loved it and the characters soooo much that i'd see it again tomorrow.
and i love the fact that the religious right made a point to "ignore it to death" and right now on network tv, the ad's for brokeback say something like "the most talked about film of the year, the most acclaimed film of the year, a sweeping love story...etc. etc." pretty much a great big "IN YOUR FACE RELIGIOUS HOMOPHOBES" from the studio! hahaha ya gotta love it!
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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It's a bit sad to see a posting in that site's forum complaining that it's a typical straight male ploy to trivialise gays by reducing them to cartoon characters. Some guys really need to get a life!
Btw, Timmy - this IS the same Brokeback Mountain which won four BAFTA awards a couple of weeks ago - including those for best film and best director? I guess you're expressing a minority view here!
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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Ena
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Getting started |
Registered: January 2004
Messages: 23
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I finally saw the film. I wasn't disappointed although I wasn't emotionally overwhelmed by it (maybe cos I didn't go there with a "clean slate" ). Overall it is a well put together film and I thought it brought across the point that love is love regardless whether it was between the same sexes or between a man and woman.
SPOILER:
For me the bittersweetness of the story is what would be the outcome of the relationship if Jake didn't die. Would he still be lost to Ennis eventually?
Emotionally, I was much more affected by the movie "The Age of Innocence" (A 1993 movie directed by Martin Scorsese and starred Winona Ryder, Michelle Pfeiffer, Daniel Day-Lewis, etc.) that dealt also with the theme of lost opportunity / love. It was especially poignant towards the end of the whole show, when Danie Day Lewis character realised his wife is aware of his "sacrifice".
Last but not least, I think it is still worth to spend the money to watch this movie. At least at the end of it, you'll know why you like or don't like about it.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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It is the self same movie. But There's nowt Dafta than BAFTA.
Awards are politically inspired. The movie itself is dreadfully dreary, and it, as a movie, was not worthy of the awards. But the nomination system and the lobbying for the awards causes awards to arrive where none are justified.
Look, for example, at LoTR, where they waited for part 3 (will there be a part 4, one wonders?) before making any serious awards, despite each individual movie deserving awards. I also can't recall if any Harry Potter (truly dreadful acting, even from the adults) won any awards or not.
I have a strong belief in Hans Christian Andersen and The Emperor's New Clothes. Brokeback was rather banal. The only thing that made it in any way memorable is the "institution of the cowboy" that it attacked. This gavce it contriversy value, and hence it was gloriously over-hyped.
Inn the US the marketing was excellent. Released to small theatres to create "scarcity demand" all the way to the Oscars, and then general release. Great publicity about it being groundbreaking (it really wasn't).
And thus it arrived at a Luvvies Award or two. Glasses were raised. Gyllengaal (sp, and who really cares?) and Ledger reaffirmed their manliness (such relief to us all). Lucky Ledger mumbled since he;s an Aussie, but there ya go!
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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OK,
I saw the movie a couple of weeks ago. I could really identify with the inner turmoil and struggle these two men experienced. Been there, done that. So in that regard I think it was excellent. The photography, especially the mountains scenes, was beautiful. The overall story? So so.
JC
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It why I didn't bother seeing it.
Time is lifes currency, spend it well.
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A half pound of bacon has more sizzle than this movie. I know exactly what Timmy means by 'The Emperor's New Clothes'. I heard it often enough sung by Danny Kaye on 'Children's Favourites' Ok, I'm showing my age.
The book may be good, but if you're going to make a film of it, then you need to be extremely careful to make sure you convey all that the written word does. If you don't, then you're left with what we got presented in the cinema.
I'll stick to the bacon thanks. After all I can enjoy a bit of pork. And the elk wasn't that cute either.
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I'll have the bacon too.
If you cook it. 
Time is lifes currency, spend it well.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I see it won some fancy gold-look vibrators. Now where do you put the batteries?
They werent; the best oscars to win, really, now were they? Consolation prize
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I hope you don't mind me resurrecting this thread -- I have finally got round to watching Brokeback Mountain.
The problem with it, I think, is that it is perceived as having far greater scope than it should. This is a film about the relationship between two men over the years. It makes no earth-shattering statement, comes to no major conclusion. I think as a low budget film (yes, $14 million is low budget, and it could probably have been made for a third of that) it succeeds pretty well.
I thought the acting was very good. I was pleased by the cinematography. I was not overawed by the story, but then I do not like Westerns and had no particular affinity for the characters.
I disagree that this was supposed to be a weepy movie. You could weep to it if you wished, but I personally didn't have a great deal of sympathy for the characters as it was evident that to a large extent they brought it upon themselves. I do not think this makes them two-dimensional, by any means, however.
I disapprove of the huge amount of media attention, especially for the Academy Awards. If it had been about a man and a woman it would not have received a tenth of it and probably not have won any Oscars (though it might still have been nominated). Just because a film covers a previously taboo subject does not make it, per se, excellent.
David
[Updated on: Thu, 05 October 2006 15:06] |
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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You film buffs do take a while to get round to watching stuff!
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Don't laugh. I finally got to see the movie. I agree with Timmy's critique. The film was a great disappointment - especially since I had already read the original short story (thanks to Grasshopper) - which was good. I really cannot see what all the fuss was about.
J F R
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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