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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Beloved madcap Brit, regrettably dead.
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Attachment: guess.jpg
(Size: 8.89KB, Downloaded 339 times)
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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Are you sure that your selection is in the best possible taste?
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Everything he ever did was, I feel!
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Someone's got to say it, but the credit goes to Cossie.
K Everitt
Give me a little time to find a new one – time's at a premium this week.
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Our Kenny it is.
Started in showbiz as a pirate radio DJ and migrated to Radio 1. He seemed such an unhappy man, and it came over in his wild comedy. I think he did his best to deny his orientation. It's such a shame it matters so much to other people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenny_Everett has so much about him
One fact is that my cousin adored him untiklthe day Ken said he was gay. At which point the stupid man dropped him like a hot brick. One day I will tell my sweet cousin I am gay and watch what happens.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Cossie, how do you feel about coming up with another famous person who is commonly believed to have felt an attraction towards the same sex at some point in his or her life?
I think it's your turn.
David
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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... I cunningly avoided responsibility by indicating that I knew the last famous [insert your own choice of words here!] without actually naming him; Nigel very kindly supplied the name and accepted follow-up duty, but he asked for a little time as he was having a busy week.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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You wrote:
> another famous person who is commonly believed to have felt an attraction towards the same sex at some point in his or her life? <
I would imagine that many people throughout history have had a fleeting attraction for someone of the same sex. Does that qualify them as being gay? I can see where your thoughts are, but to me it seems that it would have to be a consistent and oft-repeated sexual attraction towards members of the same sex and a complementary reticence towards heterosexual encounters that defines one as being gay. (I think that gay and bisexual are considered to be different; I'm not sure.)
And from the practical POV: Timmy, is someone who is known to have had "an attraction towards the same sex at some point in his or her life" a suitable candidate for inclusion in the "Famous Gays" series?
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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Ah, 'tis a quagmire.
Maybe if I inserted "consistently"?
> another famous person who is commonly believed to have consistently felt an attraction towards the same sex at some point in his or her life?
I think we have to include people who are bisexual, as who is to say (or to presume to say) whether they were people who through force of circumstance (or in the modern day) would not have been free to live an exclusively homosexual lifestyle?
Of course, "the same sex" is also a bit loose.
- Is someone gay (or bisexual) if they only ever feel attracted to one person of the same sex?
- What if they go on to have a long-term relationship with that one person?
- Could someone live a gay lifestyle with a person, yet not "actually" (by any definition) be gay? (Much as a straight person can life a straight lifestyle, but not "actually" be straight.)
These are all questions that spring to mind, now I come to think of it.
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Oh, okay. Sorry, Nigel.
One waits with bated breath.
Er, that sounds sarcastic. Which it's not meant to be.
One waits.
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Deeej wrote:
I think we have to include people who are bisexual
I agree, of course. My comment was only meant to imply that (as I have been told) bisexuality has an etiology which is different from homosexuality. I can't argue the point one way or the other: this is just something that I have been told. As far as our own "Famous Gays" are concerned of course we must include all GLBT.
Is someone gay (or bisexual) if they only ever feel attracted to one person of the same sex?
If we understand homosexuality as being a sexual orientation then it is almost impossible that at some time or other in their lives gay people do not feel a general preference for people of the same sex. However, you are right that it is also possible that at some other stage in their lives they could be uniquely attracted to one person.
What if they go on to have a long-term relationship with that one person?
Wonderful! To my mind, one of the greatest 'problems' with the gay scene is its promiscuity (which in the era of AIDS is not just an ethical question). I'm all for monogamic relationships where at all possible.
Could someone live a gay lifestyle with a person, yet not "actually" (by any definition) be gay? (Much as a straight person can life a straight lifestyle, but not "actually" be straight.
I can only respond subjectively. Since I think that gayness is something that derives from an inner impulse over which we have no control I think that my answer to your question should be 'no'. (I do not mean to imply that we can't control our behaviour: I mean that we cannot control our orientation. It's just there: either hetero or gay etc. What we do with that orientation is a different matter.)
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Feeling an attraction towards someone does not mean they are gay.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Marc, you said:
> Feeling an attraction towards someone does not mean they are gay.
Do you mean "Feeling an attraction towards someone does not mean you are gay"?
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Said JFR,
> bisexuality has an etiology which is different from homosexuality. I can't argue the point one way or the other: this is just something that I have been told.
You are possibly quite right here. I don't know either. In my case, though, I don't really see a difference. I simply know that mostly I am attracted to boys but on very rare occasion am attracted to girls. Does that mean I am not "properly" gay and am only bisexual? (which is why, for example, er, I'm pretty much entirely straight-acting?) (argh, maybe I should take that one back before someone challenges me, as we all know campness doesn't necessarily have any bearing on sexuality). And society certainly lumps together "gay" and "bisexual", though I am aware that that completely fails to strengthen my point. 
As always, one can only really argue a point in a scholarly fashion if one has defined all one's terms beforehand. Perhaps we should be required to give references at the end of each post. (Harvard system, please.)
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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One thing I am sure of is the fact that I am indeed Gay.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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JFR wrote:
"My comment was only meant to imply that (as I have been told) bisexuality has an etiology which is different from homosexuality. I can't argue the point one way or the other: this is just something that I have been told."
The 'different etiology' (shouldn't that be 'aetiology', or am I being too paedantic?) argument is really part of the great 'nature or nurture' debate. Those who contend that gay orientation is wholly genetic in origin have difficulty with the 'gradation' of gayness; hence it is necessary to seek a different origin for bisexuality. I'm not trying to open the larger can of worms here - I think that we are several years away from a definitive conclusion - but the two issues are certainly related.
I was going to express a view on Deeej's definition of a possibly famous possible gay, but after reading the argument so far, my head hurts. I'll just have a whisky instead.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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