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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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This short poll is here for you to say. 
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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It strikes me that stories where the sole purpose of the story is to bring two characters together romantically is somewhat artificial. What is far more important to me is that the story paints two or more characters in detail. If a character is imagined well enough, then the author will almost find them making up their own mind about how to react to a situation. If it is within character for a person to find love and happiness, then that is what should happen; but if they are not yet prepared for it and that is justified by their character then I will be just as satisfied.
In that sense, I don't make a great distinction between "happy endings" and "sad endings". (So far, I am the only person to have ticked the "sad endings" box on the survey.) The best endings are those that make sense for the characters involved. Very few people in real life ever find a genuinely happy ending, and if an author eliminates all possible points of antagonism by the end of the story then he or she is at risk of making the story seem artificial and alienating the audience. Flawed characters echo real life. It's not coincidence that some of the greatest stories of all time are about redemption.
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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... althought I didn't tick 'sad endings'. I don't necessarily expect the principal characters to walk hand-in-hand into the sunset and I agree that the best stories are those which mirror real life as we envisage it. The trouble is that sad endings in gay genre stories on the internet tend to be more than slightly overdone. There are, of course, exceptions, but the proportion of young gay heros expiring in intensive care (whether from disease or violence) is unrealistically high!
Mind you, I do get upset by anachronisms, like people who refer to 0.4 of a shilling when they mean 0.167!! Those were the days, when a couple of shillingsworth of old pennies in your jeans pocket was enough to give you a decided list to starboard (or port, dependent upon your orientation!)
If I might be forgiven for a little sycophantic behaviour, I have to say that Timmy's 'Chris and Nigel' series, Books 1 and 2, were exceptional examples of their kind. Several writers have dedicated themselves to the 'magnum opus' approach, but in most cases the freshness fades as the story goes on, and on, and on .....
By and large, most internet authors do better with short or medium length stories; Mike Arram's 'novella' approach is an excellent illustration of the latter. It's great to come across the same characters in cameo roles or in separate stories, but a continuous narrative chronicling the day-to-day lives of the principal characters over 60 or 70 chapters needs a writer of exceptional talent to retain the reader's interest to the final instalment.
I seem to recollect that Timmy very sensibly has a policy of not allowing discussion of hosted stories on this forum, but whilst abiding by that restriction it would be interesting to continue this thread with other views about gay writing in general.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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>I do get upset by anachronisms, like people who refer to 0.4 of a shilling when they mean 0.167!!
If a shilling is 5 new pence, then 0.4 of a shilling is 2 new pence. And I work in new pence.
I disagree that it's an anacronism. I can remember the days when shilling pieces were used as 5p pieces (until 1990), and 2 shilling pieces were used as 10p pieces (until 1993). As far as I'm concerned, for my entire life a shilling has been a synonym for 5p.
So there!
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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cossie wrote:
> If I might be forgiven for a little sycophantic behaviour, I have to say that Timmy's 'Chris and Nigel' series, Books 1 and 2, were exceptional examples of their kind. Several writers have dedicated themselves to the 'magnum opus' approach, but in most cases the freshness fades as the story goes on, and on, and on .....
You are very kind. The main reason I have been unable to continue it is that every attempt leads to degraded rubbish. I love Chris and love Niogel. I respect them too much to write dross about them
> I seem to recollect that Timmy very sensibly has a policy of not allowing discussion of hosted stories on this forum, but whilst abiding by that restriction it would be interesting to continue this thread with other views about gay writing in general.
I tend not to want us to analyse individual stories because there is a danger of it either becoming sycophantish, or actually rather personal.
As a paradox I also feel that a simple "Well done" is very much in order. But I donl;t think we are here as a literary discussion group
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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One thing I find unpalatable is when every character suddenly happens to be gay. There are a few authors like that who create an alternatuve reality, a gay universe, where every last individual is suddenly coming out to his mother, father and school.
Reality says there are a 10% or so sample of us. So in any classroom of 20 kids there are two gay ones, on average. And those two will almost never be attracted to each other, of course.
I have read and tired of one magnum opus that gradually had no worthwhile heterosexual characters. The edge vanished. I don't mean that gay characters are always at odds with their enviornmant, but it is more stressful being gay that str8, and tghe stress is real and should show.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I do not want to close off "generic discussions" though, nor to prevent a "wow, that was amazing" post
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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You did not include all choices........
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I am sure I never could include all choices. There is an infinity of choices. So I settled for as many as I could fit in comfortably
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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well, I was particularly thinking about the option of going to the library.
Not all.... Literature.... is gay related....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I seem to be thinking in a different direction. Can you expand on that thought?
The poll is intended to be from a gay site and about its content, rather than a general survey.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Ahh..... I thought it was about choices.
In this case, what type of stories do each of us enjoy.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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well that is why it says "What type of stories do you prefer here? please tick all that apply"
Your more general case would have omitted the word "here".
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Short (self contained) story
Mystery, gay is just a side issue
Feels like real life
Teenagers as main cast
Happy ending
Does that sound like a recipe for success to you?
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Ahh........
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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'Putting in your twopennorth' (or tuppenceworth, if you prefer) was definitely a pre-decimal concept; how many of today's kids even think of the present coin as 'tuppence' - it's almost always referred to as 'two pee', a phrase which to those of us of a certain age can only refer to joint occupation of a urinal!
No, civilisation was seriously diluted in 1971 by the disappearance of the old penny, the shilling, the florin, the half-crown and the archaic guinea.
The coins which remained as legal tender at a value of five new pence were emaciated shadows of the genuine shilling - or 'bob' as it was usually known in conversation. Indeed, the only beneficial consequence of the decimalisation of our currency was the disappearance of the phrase 'queer as a nine-bob note'! We all understood the ancient system perfectly well, and it enabled us to laugh at visiting Americans who couldn't understand it at all.
So there, you young whippersnapper: pay attention to your elders and betters!
(Removes tongue from cheek and retires smartly!)
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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You old codger! Why be so disparaging of our young friend? Naaasty! ("Left hand down a bit.") It's not his fault that you and I can remember when you could buy the evening newspaper for threepence ("Star, Standard, paper!") and there was such a thing as the "News Chronicle". I can even remember the day when sweets went off rationing! Tempora mutantur... "Lest one good custom should corrupt the world" etc etc etc. Smile, old man: you're on Candid Camera!
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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No Message Body
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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John Bull, Illustrated, Everybodys', threepennorth of chips, beer at a shilling a pint - my grandad told me all about them.
Mind you, I CAN remember Film Fun, Radio Fun, the Lone Ranger and the Goon Show!
Just mind your languge, though, young JFR, or I'll wrap a Zimmer frame round your neck! Of course, I'll need to mug a pensioner to get one!
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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