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Fred Phelps Confronted
Special to 365Gay.com by Jeff Golimowski, KAKE TV
http://365gay.com/Newscon06/02/020406Phelps.htm
(Topeka, Kansas) When we went to talk with Rev. Fred Phelps we thought we were prepared for anything, but even we were shocked about what we saw and heard. Not all words and images in this story are suitable for all audiences.
"God hates America," said Phelps.
He offers no apologies.
"This country is hellbound, it's hopeless," said Phelps.
We went with Phelps and his flock to protest in front of a catholic church and to his sermon because we wanted to find out what it is that makes him spread his message that so many call hate.
Phelps' church isn't a big place. About 60 people were there the Sunday we visited, 30 of them children.
His sermon often rambles, he repeats himself, jumps from one topic to the next and is often tough to follow. He includes conspiracy theories and a lot of fire and brimstone.
Phelps believes in the doctrine of predestination. He says God has selected a small number of humans to go to heaven, the rest are out of luck.
"The doctrine of absolute predestination is the bible from one end to the other," said Phelps.
He says he protests to help people repent and America is doomed if it doesn't heed his message. A first step for the national repentance? He says it is criminalizing sodomy.
"And you have to attach the penalty of death to it," said Phelps.
"So then kill all homosexuals?," we asked.
"You can't make that leap," said Phelps. "When you pass a law that doesn't mean that everybody is going to break it, but those that do break it ought to be executed."
We forced the issue, does he believe homosexuals should die?
"You insist on putting it that way but I'm telling you just because you pass a law you don't assume everyone is going to break it, but that prohibition must be there if this county expects to get any favors from God," said Phelps.
Phelps views himself as an instrument of God's will, but what drives him to be so outlandish, so hateful?
"Those old Baptist preachers delivered me a charge from Isaiah 58:1," said Phelps. "Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet and show thy people their transgressions."
He and his followers certainly lift up their voices attacking those who go to churches Phelps disagrees with, which include almost all of them. Even those considered very conservative, such as the Wichita church ran by anti-gay marriage activist Terry Fox.
"That jackass down there, Fox in Wichita, his church is just chock full of divorced and remarried people," said Phelps. "He has no moral authority to preach about homosexuals."
Phelps says America's acceptance of homosexuality is responsible for the nation's problems.
"Homosexuality is not an innocent alternate lifestyle, it's not a civil right," said Phelps. "It's a monstrous sin against God almighty."
He protests soldiers' funerals because he says their deaths are evidence of God's vengeance.
"Dying time is truth time," said Phelps. "That would seem to us to be God's forum of choice."
We asked Phelps, "Do you preach hate?"
"Not in the pejorative sense I don't," said Phelps. "The truth of the matter is I'm the only one who loves these fags."
Phelps believes by pointing out what he calls the sin of homosexuality, he's fulfilling the Bible's commandment to love thy neighbor, but not letting his sin go unrebuked.
"These kissypoo preachers that are telling them they are all right like they are, they don't love them, they hate them," said Phelps.
He lives in a world familiar to 18th century preachers where hell is real and close by. Where God is often angry and vengeful. He's not sure if he will be going to heaven, but he's pretty sure about members of the media. He often sends us press releases full of slurs and bible verses and calls us on his website fag enablers.
And he says the more hatred he generates toward himself, the happier he will be.
" I seek out ways to speak the truth of god," said Phelps.
By the way, Fred Phelps says on his website he doesn't pray for those he believes damned. But he told us as we left we were on his list of people he was fond of because he has had the opportunity to preach to us.
Jeff Golimowski is the chief investigative reporter for KAKE-TV in Wichita, Kansas
©365Gay.com 2006
(\\__/) And if you don't believe The sun will rise
(='.'=) Stand alone and greet The coming night
(")_(") In the last remaining light. (C. Cornell)
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> Phelps believes in the doctrine of predestination. He says God has selected a small number of humans to go to heaven, the rest are out of luck.
Did the New Testament completely pass him by? Whatever happened to the concept of repentance and forgiveness?
He's obviously just attention-seeking. It pains me to see these articles as all they are doing is giving a sociopath a voice. There is no point in responding.
Personally, if his God is as bigoted and vengeful as he says it is, I would rather go to hell.
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Deeej, you are absolutely right. My great grandfather was a missionary Baptist minister. Were talking true hellstone and brimfire. He was one mean S.. o. b....
I had a friend point something out to me once (cant remember exactly what book and verse it is, maybe someone knows) there is a passage in one of the old testament books. If Im correct it says "Woe unto those shephards who have lead my sheep astray" Its not the followers that are gonna pay, but the ministers who are teaching something false. Phelps is making sure of his place in hell.
Ok, my rant for a Sat. morning. Now I feel better ;-D
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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Jeremiah 23:1: Shame on the shepherds who let the sheep of my flock scatter and be lost! says the Lord.
Isn't it strange how these preachers always include themselves in the little flock to be saved, and that the thought never seems to strike them, that their own acts and words may lead people astray - and themselves to the fire?
In Norway there is now a fight going on between two "evangelic" preachers. One of them has sued the other for stealing his flock. It is absolutely ridiculous, of course, were it not for the poor people looking for somewhere safe to worship and belong.
No doubt, Deej, many of these leaders are sociopaths or psychopaths, hence potentially dangerous. What they always want - always - is personal power and influence, and they cannot be trusted for a second. The pity is that so many people gather around them exactly because of their image of strength and determination.
Dear Brian, I once knew a lady who had been a missionary i Congo and Rwanda for almost a generation. She was one of the sweetest and kindest persons I have ever met. Not any brimfire, but lots of love, tolerance and compassion.
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Sailorman, that news about two preachers has passed me by completely - who are you referring to?
Personally, I read idag.no (norwegian christian (Phelps-like) newspaper) with great amusement.
Phelps is indeed the one who is leading his flock astray.
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Sailorman
Sorry i didnt mean to include all missonary Baptist, just my Great Grandfather. He was a professor of english at Cambridge, quit to become a minister, and traveled from one end of this state to the other breathing fire and damenation. Course this was the early 1900s.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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Please, no apologies needed! I know you didn't and don't include them all! It was just the image of this fine, elderly lady which suddenly popped up before me. Where I grew up there was no preacher like the ones you know all too well, except those who used to visit our town for a few days at a time, and they didn't attract that many people.
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nobu
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Getting started |
Location: somewhere between north a...
Registered: June 2005
Messages: 16
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I'm trying to remember if i've ever witnessed a fire and brimstone preacher......i think the closest i've ever gotten to hearing such teachings is everytime i go down to Oxford St and that part of London.....two individuals, who i think work alone, both speaking out of a megaphone......one of them has a catchphrase...
"don't be a sinner, be a winner"......funny guy to watch
...eight priests!!! It looked impressive!
We Wrote Letters Every Day by The Fiery Furnaces
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Sailorman: Read the link. Reaction, quoted: "Bwahahaha!"  Oh well, at leats they are busy in court, less time to breathe fire and conjure brimstone.
Under europride in Oslo last summer, I was soo disappointed that the anti-europride demonstration by christian idiots didn't happen. Oh, how much fun we could have created if they were there... 
Brian: Laugh at the idiots. Even if you do it in secret, it will lighten your heart and prolong your life.
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Anti-gay church to picket King’s funeral
Black gay activist notes 'irony' of funeral location
By DYANA BAGBY, Southern Voice
http://www.sovo.com/thelatest/thelatest.cfm?blog_id=4974
The virulently anti-gay Westboro Baptist Church from Topeka, Kansas, announced Feb. 3 that it would picket the funeral of civil rights icon Coretta Scott King, widow of Martin Luther King Jr.
Mrs. King’s funeral is set for Feb. 7 from noon to 3 p.m. at New Birth Missionary Baptist Church in Lithonia, a suburb of Atlanta, officials with the King Center have confirmed. It is expected to attract thousands of mourners.
Westboro Baptist Church, headed by Fred Phelps and known for its “God Hates Fags” signs carried at protests, said it is picketing the funeral because Mrs. King believed in equality for gay people.
Mrs. King's longstanding support for gay issues included speaking out publicly against a proposed federal constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage. She was also a vocal supporter of HIV/AIDS awareness.
“WBC has warned Mrs. King for more than 10 year [sic] that by endorsing the homosexual agenda she was bringing down the wrath of God upon herself, her family and the black civil rights movement. She is an ingrate — unthankful and holy,” the church said in a press release.
Officials with New Birth Missionary Baptist Church, where one of Mrs. King’s daughters, Rev. Bernice King, is an elder, could not be immediately reached for comment.
Officials at the King Center said they were unaware of any protest at the funeral.
The DeKalb County Police Department of Homeland Security did speak with officials at Westboro Baptist Church about the planned protest, a police administrator confirmed today. A police department spokesperson did not immediately return calls seeking comment.
Shirley Phelps-Roper, the daughter of Fred Phelps, said the church has been in contact with local authorities and she expects a police presence at the funeral. Church members will protest in the public right-of-way near New Birth Missionary Church, she added.
Mrs, King’s body will lie in state at New Birth Missionary Church the day of the funeral from 6:30 a.m. until 9:30 a.m.
The location of the funeral is also causing a stir among some black gay activists, including author Keith Boykin, who serves as board president of the National Black Justice Coalition. Boykin described the choice of location as a “final twist of irony” on his blog, noting that while Mrs. King “was an outspoken advocate for LGBT rights,” her youngest daughter and New Birth’s leader are not.
The King family’s youngest child, Bernice King, helped organize a march in December 2004 with Bishop Eddie Long of New Birth Missionary Church, to call for black churches to become more vocal on issues including banning same-sex marriage, reforming the education and health care systems, and creating economic opportunities for minorities.
The march, which began at Martin Luther King Jr.’s gravesite at the King Center, drew between 20,000 and 25,000 people, according to Atlanta Police Department estimates.
It is unclear at this time if Bishop Long will preach at the funeral.
© 2006 | A Window Media Publication
(\\__/) And if you don't believe The sun will rise
(='.'=) Stand alone and greet The coming night
(")_(") In the last remaining light. (C. Cornell)
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About a fortnight ago a Church of Norway doctrinal commission presented a report on the issue of homosexuality, whether gay women and men living with partners should be allowed to hold positions as ordained priests or deacons. The commission is hung on the matter but at the same time its members agree that questions related to gay partnerships should are not serious enough to cause a split within the church.
Officially, gay partnership among priests has not been tolerated. Some bishops, however, have deviated from official doctrine and have ordained gay priests living with partners, and in all but a few cases these priests have been warmly welcomed by the majority of their parish members.
When the commission's report was presented to the public it was also revealed that a majority of the church's bishops are now ready to accept gay ordained priests and deacons living with partners.
There are, of course, voices of concern from within conservative quarters, very similar to the opposition to woman priesthood, but it has been a lot more balanced and muted than one might have expected. The Church of Norway will, of course, have to bring the matter to a formal conclusion, but there is no doubt that being gay within the church has reached a level of acceptance that would have been inconceivable only a few years ago.
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I had occasion to watch a TV programme last week which was examining the validation of the various religions and the likely truth of each. It crucified our well beloved Bible as a version which the Vatican was prepared to let us read, so we'd be mugs to take that as Gospel (pun intended.) It then proceeded to rip apart all the other writings supposedly of the truth and nothing but the truth. I'm not going to start riots and draw any cartoons here.
But the message came over loud and clear: "My God is better than your God" and I'm going to fight you until you agree. How sad. And strange really.
All these religions purport to give the message of love, peace and forgiveness. How peculiar. I don't see much of that happening.
I hear a lot of MEN spouting their own beliefs and trying to coax others into believing that they've heard their God talking to them. Yea right.
I think I'm sick to death of religion for the moment thanks, until someone comes along with the truth, not what men wrote as supposedly the truth.
Kill, kill, kill. Is that all we're good for? Damn, we're too good at it unfortunately. I don't think I want to believe that it's really all for nothing, and that there's nothing to look forward to after we die, but it's looking more probable the more lies we discover. So how can these experts say homosexuality is wrong? By whose standards or words? Theirs? Oh it's getting so difficult to know who is telling the truth and who isn't.
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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No Message Body
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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... and a pretty cynical agnostic at that. But if you have faith in a god, remember that all of the religious taboos have been set down by men.
Unfortunately - but inevitably - religion has always provided a pathway to power for those who were unlikely to achieve it by any other means. That is not to belittle the faith of those who have entered the priesthood from genuine conviction, but over the years religious leadership has been guided more by political advantage than by faith, and since power-seekers are, in a sense, necessarily corrupt, the distortion of moral guidance was pretty well unavoidable.
You're absolutely right about the contents of the Christian Bible; what is in and what is omitted is very definitely the work of man - specifically Athanasius of Alexandria. That's not to say that he was self-seeking, but he made choices which HE believed to be right, and if he had chosen differently the Christian religion would have been significantly changed. Or would it, since the extremists only read the bits that serve their purpose?
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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..whatever books they read. Psychopaths and sociopaths are what they are, wherever they are.
Conspiracy theories are very useful for tv show makers and book writers and their wallets, and they make great entertainment. It is an open question, though, how enlightening they are. The selection of biblical texts, and their translations, were, of course, made by people, men, who didn't live in a vacuum, neither theoretically, politically nor emotionally. We have to take that into account, and that is what the theologians do, who dare to challenge old and well established theses about homosexuality.
What I wanted to convey was simply that their work is being accepted by an increasing number of people. For gay people, who want to stick to their Christian faith and to stay within their church, this should be good news, as it should for those of us who also regard it as a matter of human rights.
That was why I appended my post to the "Fred Phelps" thread.
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