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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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You have closed down Marc's thread about sexual undertones, later redefined by others as inappropriate behaviour.
I have spent a thoroughly miserable day worrying about this issue. You say in your final post -
"Like I said, it is time to be silent on this. We must have a victim, must we? Someone to poke and prod. It;s great to pillory a perosn and make them suffer, so let's do that.
Or better, let's not.
The question was rehtorical. The thread is closed."
But the terms in which the original post was couched very clearly implied that there had been 'sexual undertones' when 'a youth makes an entrance to the board'. It is abundantly clear that in the relatively recent past Brian is the only 'youth' to have 'made an entrance'; it is equally clear that (apart from a couple of innocuous remarks from one other poster) I am the only one who has logged posts directed to Brian which include anything which could be conceivably be described as 'sexual undertones' - though in my view they were clearly humorous to the extent that 'overtones' would be a more accurate description.
Anyone checking out posts over the last couple of months could not do other than conclude that I was the person who had posted 'sexual undertones' and, by association with what came later, that I am the one guilty of inappropriate behaviour.
You say 'We must have a victim, must we? Someone to poke and prod?' Well,
so long as the subject is brushed under the carpet, you DO have a victim, and I am he. If I am left under this cloud of innuendo then I cannot possibly continue as a member of this community - and I do not want to leave, because I have hugely enjoyed the interaction between this group of people I am proud to call friends.
Your penultimate post referred to 'something improper'. If the implication of impropriety had not been raised, then we could all get on with our lives - but once you DO raise the matter, the moving finger moves on. You can't unsay what was said, and the muck sticks, as they say in this part of the world.
Please, Timmy: whether intentionally or otherwise, you have left me covered in muck. To remove it, I need to be directly challenged by an accusation of wrongdoing, so that I can attempt to refute it, or I need to be specifically and unequivocally exonerated - and in view of what has gone before I cannot see how this can be done without being equally specific in identifying what you regard as improper behaviour. Who? is not a question which interests me, as long as it isn't me.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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Let's look at this as unemotionally as we can, then
I truly do not want victims. Neither you nor Brian nor anyone else. So, if I may, I will clear the air.
First I did not like the way that thread was going. So I killed it. Blame me for that.
Now you and Brian are good friends. You play, you flirt and you have fun. I applaud all of that. I see nothing improper in your behaviour at all. I see a pair of kids having fun. I do not care that you are of widely different ages, I just see kids.
I hope that is sufficient either to challenge you or to exonerate you, for yes, it is your posts with brian that are close to the mark.
All I ask is that you each pull back a little. I think it was the set of posts with jam and licking that caused a message to me by email. We are all still suffering somewhat from the harm that Bishop did at the fringes of our community. We may be oversensitive, but he was a bad 'un.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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When I do something wrong, I want direct talk, which leaves nothing to be said. If I were Cossie now I would have been just as upset as he is. This is an out-of-the-books example of how things can go wrong when what should have been said, if necessary, is covered behind clouds of fog.
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I agree. If you see something of which you disapprove, you have several options.
i. ignore it (and provided one is sure that the parties involved are aware of the boundaries and the law, this is often the best option)
ii. comment privately to Timmy, who as the administrator is best placed to offer guidance to members
iii. comment privately to Cossie or Brian
iv. post a direct allegation on the board, which can then be refuted and discussed openly (though this is very confrontational)
v. post a fuzzy, unhelpful message which serves only to muddy the waters and upset several people (on various levels)
The first three show respect for all parties involved. I can understand the fourth if you believe that there is a direct and immediate cause for concern. However, not only is the fifth likely to be less constructive than the fourth, it strikes me as something of a "dog in the manger" attitude: other people are enjoying themselves, so let's try and disrupt it as much as possible without, quite, bringing the matter to a head, so it'll go on as long as possible.
I know I'm guilty of prolonging the issue by posting. However, I would like to take this opportunity to
- agree that Cossie does have a valid point
- thank Timmy for his response, which I do think goes some way to healing the situation
Perhaps we can use this opportunity to learn; whereas in previous threads the impetus was "be careful", in this post, at least, it is "respect other people".
David
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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Cossie, if this does not clear the air, it is not that I wil be ignoring you. I am simply away until late monday after tonight.
I do not think we need a huge thread here, but the floor is yours. I can see that it can and should also be Brian's, and I see every reason why Marc should participate in it since it was his post of concern that started this train of thought.
What I do not want to happen in this thread is any of: Sniping, Flaming, any simialr and unpleasant actions.
What I hope wil be achieved is a return of balance with all those who were here before feeling welcome after.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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All right! I tried to make this question generic and to leave personalities out of it. Apparently this is not appropriate to many of you therefore I shall show you what truly is NOT APPROPRIATE.
((Leading Question)) Party 1, “Can you put jam on both sides of him and, if so, how do you remove it?????”
((Hooked)) Party 2, “Now xxxxxx, you know good and well you suck and lick ”
((Invitation)) Party 1, “NAH, I'M PRETTY IGNORANT, REALY ....... I think I need a demonstration!!”
((Acceptance)) Party 2, “Well just catch a plane and fly right over here. Warn you tho, the jelly is sticky, and there will be a third person. ”
((Confirmation)) Party1, “THE MORE, THE MERRIER ........ can we use raspberry jam?”
Shown to a third party this was the opinion…. To me it sounds like a meeting being arranged. Clearly a meeting of a sexual nature.
This interaction is clearly not appropriate.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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Thank you, Marc. I think that expresses it quietly and succinctly.
I can see how your other party could have formed the opinion you state. That opinion differed from mine at the time, but that simply shows that the line between one person's definition of fun and another's of assignation is not easy to position.
What I hope now does not happen from anyone is a raised voice.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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First...... I know full well the post was innocent..... and I know full well this is not the first time nor the last.
I also know that people not as savy as I see this board
Second..... The third party I allowed to view the interaction is from the child protection task force. A friend who is also professional in these matters.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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So we can see the scope for an incorrect interpretation. And we can also see that Marc was not singling it out with ill will, but was and is looking at the greater good.
What marc forgot to say is the the third party was shown this as a friend, not in any official capacity, and was simply asked for an opinion.
[Updated on: Thu, 16 February 2006 20:20]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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ah hummmm. May I have a say in this matter?
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Oh I am sorry, Thats true.... He is a friend and was just asked for his opinion as a friend not a professional.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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My origional intent was to make it known that there are invisible lines that must not be crossed. I made my origional post as a simplistic question which put forth generalities. My intent was to quietly curb this sort of interaction.
My intent also was to not name names nor point fingers. The only reason why I do so now is because my hand was forced.
What is most important is that we know lurking youth can make themselves public on the board with the piece of mind, knowing that we as a group keep this board safe.
Cossie, I never wanted this to reach this point. To make a withdrawal would be a loss for the community here.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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I second that.
We have seen the scope for misunderstanding. We need, all of us, to use care, more care, than we do. We use less care because we are among frineds, and that is what friends do. But we must be aware that the board is for those who lurk in so many ways more than it is for those who participate.
Cossie, Brian, may we close this chapter with honour, and have you remain here, happily?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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of course you may. This thread is really for you, for Cossie and Marc
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I have been having a talk With Timmy by email. In a way this whole thing is a bit my fault. I was caught up in just having fun and took things a bit far. Cossie im sorry, I sure didnt mean for all this to get started. Your my friend and I want you to stay and have fun along with me. I know there are those on line who want the board protected, and I can understand that. Im smart, but even then sometimes I cant see beyond being a kid. Timmy pointed out some things I should change and I did that. Thanks timmy, I know you are trying to protect me like you would your son. Most of all he is protecting the board, so it will be here for all of us to enjoy and just have fun. we just have to keep a closer eye on the line and not cross it. I guess what im saying is, Cossie your my friend and I still want you as a friend, and I want us to keep having some fun, so for me guys, cause I like all of you, lets let this be history, shake hands and be friends. Maybe how I feel dont mean nothing, but I would like this to be over and no more arguing, please??
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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This will sound a bit weird, so bear with me.
I am protecting 3 things here.
The board itself. It is a precious thing to many and it needs to be kept precious. That does not outlaw fun at all, it just means we need to use care, all of us.
I am protecting, so far as I am able, minors who come here seeking whatever each seeks. Each is different. I am not protecting them from anyone else. I am protecting them from themselves.
And I am protecting we older guys who may well remember our own youth and find we have fallen for that image of youth and embodied it in a younger person who comes here.
In neither of those latter two cases do I want to discourage good friendships well made.
I do think we do well to remember that we, online, are not always that which we represent ourselves as. In the autumn and for over a year before that we had some sort of predator representing himself as a moral guardian. He is now a few months in to a 3 year jail term (22 further years of which are suspended) for unlawful pictures. He was harmful. Some years ago we had a very strange individual who represented himself at 23 as a 14/15 year old cutiepie boy. He seemed harmless, and yet..... Others are simply trying out for size the persona they possibly wish they had.
We can make frinedships easily, but we should be careful not to give sufficient clues to who we are, especially if youthful. Google is amazing along with whitepages and a few other resources for finding people. Ask Andy how short a time it took me to find him and 2 alternate addresses for him, one of which was bang on.
Now sometimes that all means I walk one heck of a difficult path, and I truly do not like "named names", nor any form of finger pointing. Does that help also to explain where I am coming from?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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... it wasn't deliberate, but I was working on a design project which I need to deliver tomorrow, and it wasn't running as smoothly as I hoped!
Right. There are things I need to say.
Firstly, I am deeply grateful to all those who have expressed understanding for my situation, both on the board and by direct messages. You will note that I say understanding, rather than support - I never wanted to create a 'Cossie faction' - that would be contrary to much that I have argued in the past.
That said, whilst I sympathise with Timmy's continuing stresses as webmaster, I am afraid I cannot accept the wisdom of attempting to keep personalities out of disagreements of this sort. I have no objection to being identified as the offender in the issue under discussion; at least I can now defend myself. What I could not accept was the innuendo which quite clearly pointed towards me whilst hiding behind a posture of generality. Even though the signposts towards me were pretty clear, they were not explicit - and that means that others were under suspicion, too. That is simply not acceptable.
Deeej laid out a number of options in his first post under this thread; it looks as though they are in order of preference. I would however suggest that the second option, an off-board discussion with Timmy - whilst a good starting point for anyone with concerns - can only ever be that: a starting point. Timmy can't effectively act upon those concerns without either naming the offender (which he is very understandably reluctant to do) or spreading suspicion over a wider - and innocent - field. This is, after all, a forum - a market-place for ideas - and I would suggest that in most circumstances an expression of concern should be publicly posted. It can then be refuted, discussed, accepted or rejected; most people who come here would happily express a view without marshalling battle-lines; I know that I would certainly try to do so.
Timmy referred to two off-board communicants who expressed concern; I would be very appreciative if they would approach me personally - either on the board or by e-mail - so that all parties know how they stand. I promise not to react in anything but a civilised manner!
Now to move on to the refutation. I said in the previous thread that Brian had struck a chord with me. Despite his family difficulties he clearly had a tremendous sense of humour; I believed that he could benefit very much from the camaraderie here, and I very much wanted him to feel liked and welcome in our community. Now whilst I recognise that the internet affords an opportunity to masquerade as something other than our real selves, I have been perfectly frank in my numerous serious postings. If I wished to take advantage of anyone, it's hardly likely that I would have chosen to adopt the persona of a married man with adult children - I mean, get real, guys! However, throughout my life my profession and my business (two separate things!) have brought me into contact with people of all ages. Perhaps as a device for self-preservation, I have developed a sense of humour with a strong affinity for the ridiculous. I sensed in Brian a like mind.
We exchanged several entirely ridiculous conversations, and the funniest contributions came as much from Brian as from me. We discussed the colour of non-existent T-shirts, the part played by cricket in the American War of Independence, the consequences of the need to pump sunshine into Rednecksville, and finally the logically inevitable result of describing someone as the best thing since sliced bread (that was the one in which Brian referred to licking and sucking, and I expressed a preference for raspberry jam, of which I am inordinately fond). The point is - and I am sure that Brian, if asked, would bear it out - we both knew that we were indulging in surreal humour. Our exchanges needed to be viewed in the context of the many other posts we had made to the forum.
As in so many aspects of life, if something is taken out of context it can be so distorted that it imparts an entirely false message. I accept that the exchange between Brian and I in relation to raspberry jam was capable of a different interpretation if taken out of context - but the exchange itself was NOT out of context - we both knew we were only having fun.
For the future, I accept every conciliatory comment made in this thread - I don't want to fall out with anyone, and I certainly don't want to fall out with Marc, for whom I am begginning to have a much better understanding. What I cannot do is give an undertaking that I will not in future cross the bounds of what others consider proper. I would simply, but emphatically, state that I have never intentionally sought to hurt any other fellow-human, that I do not in any circumstances seek to form a relationship with anyone outside my marriage, and that I will continue to find humour in every situation which presents itself.
I accept that this is Timmy's board, and I will abide by whatever he decides on his return. In the meantime, I will resume posting - though probably not much tonight, 'cos I'm knackered!
Brian, I don't - ever - want to contact you off the board, but I'd love to know whether you are in agreement with the comments I have made.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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Yes cossie, I do agree with what you have said. Our posting was just in fun and could be interprited in two or more ways. Im old enough to know when im being hit on and when its just harmless fun. You are right the ones who wrote Timmy behind out backs, should have voiced their concern to us. by not coming to you or me they stired up more trouble than it should have. All I know is if I step too far accross the line, tell me.
Im glad you will still post, your my friend
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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[This is long, so skip it if you don't have the patience for long posts. I won't mind, 'cos I won't know  ]
I know that this forum is called "A Place of Safety" because Timmy wants young people to feel safe here; but for me is is also a place of safety, and at a guess I am four times older than Brian, maybe even more. I am one of those people who in real life cannot act naturally. (The reasons are unimportant for the purposes of this post.) In real life I have to be constantly on my guard lest a careless word, a careless glance, betray me and ruin my life and my career. I know it shouldn't be that way; I would rather that it wasn't that way - but that's the way it is and that's the life I have to lead.
When I come here to APOS I can be me. Here I can act naturally. Here I don't have to be afraid lest I say something that will betray me. Here I can enjoy a good joke or make a contribution to a serious discussion. I can be deadly serious or as frivolous as can be: I can be me.
I don't post here as often as some, but I visit regularly. I love the interplay of people, people just being natural about an aspect of their life and their personality which is pervasive and important. If we lived in a perfect world this Place of Safety would not have to exist. But the world is not perfect, by any means. I feel reasonably sure that if all the people on this Message Board could miraculously get together in real life almost all of them could be my friends (and I intend no sexual insinuations there).
So, when I come here and find people squabbling, accusing, feeling that they must defend themselves, I feel that my Place of Safety has been somehow sullied. I hope you know what I mean.
When Marc first posted his question I was the first to respond because I really and truly had no reason to think that anything improper had been going on. I felt that two "friends" were just enjoying a mutual repartee in a manner that they could not possibly do anywhere else. I have since learned that other people - people whom I love and respect - felt otherwise, felt uncomfortable.
I just think that when someone thinks that something is amiss they should take it up privately with the person or persons concerned: those people probably did not think that they had done anything amiss. If that fails, take it up with Timmy. But please, whatever you do, leave me my Place of Safety.
Thanks for reading.
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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I think the couple have each made themselves known to one or the other of you.
With regard to "not ever wanting to contact Brian off the board", why not alter that to "Brian I would love to meet you when and only when it is age appropriate, and under circmstances of your choosing"
Just to be very clear, and for the avoidance of doubt:
ALL are welcome here. And fun is welcome.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I hate E-Mail...... I despise writing them...... I abhore reading them.....
When I do write one it is short, to the point, and ended. Period.
When I have something to say I do not do it behind closed doors. I stand up and say it for all to hear.
When I post I say what I need to say..... Without fluffing it up.
Why was it that my origional post was met with such contempt? Only when you (and others) were made aware that some others were expressing some degree of concern (behind the scenes) did the vilification slow..... Note I did not say stop.
Do you (any of you) think I bring up a subject like this lightly? Do you (any of you) think I enjoy having to place myself into a position like this???
I, just in the last week made 2 friends that I more than likely have now lost because of this.
I was accused by Deej.... of saying that people comes here because they need help, that some come here just got the commradic banter.
To this I disagree..... Everyone comes here because that have something bothering them, a question, a problem, a desire to explore a thing about themself that frightens the life out of them.
No one COMES HERE just for the fun of it......
But they do return because it is fun.... It is informative.... It shows answers or if not we scurry off and find answers.... BECAUSE IT IS SAFE....
And it is only safe because we keep it that way....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Guys, I keep hopping that this will drop, but guess not. I think that what happened is that, after the original post, no one could figure out what was said that caused the post to be placed in the first place. I looked back over the post and saw in my mind nothing but fun and bantering. when Timmy pointed out to me what the post was and how some people felt, then I understood. I could see how someone could interpret that to be more than banter. For that I appologise, and Im so sorry all this got stired up. the ones who went behind the board to complain to Timmy, should have come to me or Cossie first or had the nerve to post like Marc did. I got a b/f most everybody knows that here, so I wasnt inviting anyone to come over or trying to find a b/f. Just a friend. Cossie and Marc are both friends, and they still are. IM not a sometimes friend like some people are, I dont fade away.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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There has been something of a frenzy of off-board activity since my last post, roughly 24 hours ago. My ego has been well and truly massaged, but unhappily no other parts of my person or personality have received similar treatment!
I have heard from one of the members of this community who had previously contacted Timmy directly, and I fully understand his concerns. He did not appreciate that I was on the civilised side of the Atlantic, and he drew my attention to the zeal with which US enforcement agencies are apt to leap upon any perceived suggestion of grooming.
To be frank, I believe that this is something we must resist. Political correctness is anathema to me. I suppose that in the nature of things I an in a minority here insofar as I have brought up (very successfully, I would contend!) two children who have now reached well-adjusted - and, incidentally, heterosexual - adulthood. Over the years my kids were at school the prophets of doom held increasing sway. I found it incredibly sad that teachers - both male and female - became afraid to hug their charges because of the risk of accusations of inappropriate behaviour. It has now reached the point where one local authority in my area is censoring school plays to remove what they describe as 'love scenes'. Pretty damn difficult if you're doing 'Romeo and Juliet', I'd have thought!
Now I know that there are predators out there, and I am not in any sense seeking to justify their perversion, but it does seem to me that we are taking away far to much of the frisson of adventure and independance which, at least in my day, was an integral part of growing up. Education is what is needed; most children are capable of learning from a very early age the wisdom of refusing sweets from a stranger. The dead hand of political correctness damages our children; it does not protect them.
It's a bit like resistance to disease. If we protect our kids from any possibility of exposure to danger, they have no antidotes to bring into play if the worst should happen.
So let's look at the relationship between myself and Brian. Our exchanges, at times, became indescribably silly - but that is the result of the sense of humour we happily share. OK, there were some sexual references, but I - and I am sure that the same is true of Brian - understood the sense of humour and accepted it for what it was: indescribable silliness. Now I would be perfectly happy if anyone had chosen to e-mail Brian to encourage him to think about what he was doing - but I was also perfectly happy (and I still am) that Brian knew perfectly well what he was doing.
I was very concerned when Brian left the board shortly after his first appearance. I don't normally react directly to new posters until they have a chance to settle down. When Brian returned, I was determined that he should know that he was important to us, and the relationship went on from there. But it was ALWAYS a relationship between a (relatively, but not irredeemably) elderly Brit and a young resident of Rednecksville - wherever that may be! OK, I like Brian - in some ways I might even love him, but it's the kind of love a grandparent might express for a grandchild who has displayed resilience under considerable adversity. I tried to make him feel loved, wanted and part of this community.
I have to repeat that I will be directed by Timmy's wishes, upon his return, but if he is willing to allow me to remain I give no undertakings as to future behaviour - except that I will ALWAYS act in the interests of those who are vulnerable.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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Cossie, I dont know what to say except thank you, wish I could give you a hug.
Brian
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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I thought had made it clear, above. But if you need black and white, you are welcome here
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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... has reached or exceeded its 'Best Before' date, but the reason I awaited your approval was because I cannot give an undertaking that I will not, in future, go beyond a subjective and invisible line in someone else's mind. I believe that judgement, though subjective, is something which requires integrity and, in turn, integrity requires that whatever I (or any other poster) may say must be considered in the context of the personality and moral fibre projected by their overall postings.
I cannot pretend that I am other than deeply upset by what I regard as superficial criticism made without regard to the purpose I was fairly obviously trying to achieve - and, hopefully, did achieve. I AM however readily able to guarantee that I will NEVER improperly solicit anyone (in fact, I would never properly solicit anyone, if I could work out how to do that!) and I will ALWAYS spring to the defence of those whom I see as vulnerable.
If you are happy to accept me on those terms, then I am much more than happy to remain as a member of this community.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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I was happy before, I am happy now.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Judging what someone says is attributed to what that write in black and white. It is not for the reader to do an indepth analysis to determine the degree of appropriatness of the words as they appear.
Especialy when the reader may be an occasional lurker.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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I suspect you mean "Without being able to see the writer's eyes and hear the writer's tone of voice, it is highly posisble for the message as written to be vastly different from the message as read."
Of course you may not mean that at all, when you will correct me 
I find the written word to be both wholly precise and capable of such imprecision as to make language a medium that can be useless for communication. We need to be aware of that imprecision.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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What I am saying is that what a person writes is exactly what another person reads.....
In no way should the writer expect a reader to interpret the comment.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Well, I guess the point I was trying to make reguarding this entire incident has been for the most part gone the way of all my previous postings...
It's good to see where the teams and cheerleaders line up around here...
At least it lets a person know where he stands...
In the future I shall try my level best to ignore things such as this...
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Please, please, please guys. Lets stop beatting this horse, it's dead. ;-D
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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.... the purpose of this post has been satisfied. If you really wish to take exception, please start a new thread.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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This is a serious thread. It has been hijacked by those of you who failed to see that it was important despite the serious nature of it.
In a new thread, because thsi has been locked, why not tell me why it is worth my while bothering with a messageboard at all.
Three participants. That is what it required. cossie, brian and marc.
So others of you jumped in and had your say. Good for you.
Note my anger.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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I have been through this and deleted the rubbish. Those who posted it owe you and brian and marc an apology.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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