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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13801
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The floor is yours.
We have had serious posts hijacked. We have had all sorts of fun in trivial posts. So what do you actually want?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Before I voice my opinions on the subject, can I confirm that the hijacking refers specifically to my two posts:
- firstly, a roundabout (and admittedly phrased in a slightly flippant manner) hope that the subject might be over soon
- a response to a direct question on whether I had ever studied logic, to which I replied yes
Because you've removed all the irrelevant posts I can't remember who else posted, or whether there were other posts that I didn't see that may have been rather more irrelevant than mine.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13801
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I will stick to a general definition rather than single anyone out
Thread hijacking is using language to divert all attention from the original topic in the thread and to divert it at once to a new topic. This is not the same as a thread which evolves.
An example might be "Enough about fish. I now wish to talk about chickens"
That is not the same as a thread which migrates from fish through foodstuffs to chickens
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I wrote most of this before you replied, Timmy, so sorry if it doesn't take into account your latest post. Hijacking itself -- posting something that is entirely unrelated -- is impolite, and should go in a new thread. However, sometimes people don't do it out of impoliteness but because they hope that it will help to break up a flame war or ongoing argument that shouldn't involve anyone else -- but does, because it keeps popping back up to the top of the index and announcing its existence to everyone else.
Frankly speaking, it makes things far too complicated if some threads become sancrosanct -- and certainly if they are supposed to be restricted to only two or three parties. Discussion forums are intended for public discussion, and unless there is a specific technical restriction there is an implicit agreement that if you are allowed to read then you are also allowed to post. If there is an ongoing serious discussion between just two or three parties then I would suggest that it should be pursued through email, not publicly.
It's also difficult to judge someone's mood or the tone of their posts on a board such as this one. If a person is quite happily posting light-hearted and amusing comments on other threads (and is quite happy to allow other people to joke along with them) then there is a temptation to respond to them along the same lines in other threads, even if it takes the conversation off on a tangent. On reflection, it may not be appropriate; but boards make it so easy to post that people may end up posting on the spur of the moment without realising quite how deep the feelings run.
I've enjoyed being on the board because I have felt that there is very little that cannot be discussed. I appreciate the fact that one can speak one's mind without fear of being taken too seriously. If I were to feel that everything that I say would be carefully measured for appropriateness then that is, frankly, intimidating, and it would put me off posting.
Have you considered the possibility of having a "serious debate" or "private" section to the board? It strikes me as odd that we can have threads containing allegations such as those made towards Cossie neck-and-neck with much more light-hearted posts (started by the same person who started the whole Cossie-Brian issue, no less!) about biscuits. The threads start interfering with each other.
David
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13801
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SO, the netiquette that is wanted is.... well, what?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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1. If there is a dispute between members, it should be confined to email or another private medium
2. Where it affects other members, by all means let them know, but don't expect them not to want to impart their viewpoint: after all, that is the point of a forum
As for hijacking, it may be rude and we shouldn't do it (and I have apologised already), but it does, as you have said yourself, often stem from embarrassment. And that is why solution 1. is also important.
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Timmy, when do people ever know what they want? IMHO, you seem quite capable of enforcing any netiquette here, and your judgement seems sufficient.
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I think perhaps what Timmy is trying to say is that he wants us to think before we type about the effect of our words on, not just the person we're replying to, but anyone who reads them. We all love it here and just want to be able to say what's on our minds to friendly people who understand.
Think for a minute....in real life, you don't talk as freely as you do on the MB. You watch your words and guard yourself. We come here to relax and see what's going on and maybe add a word or two to the conversation. We get so comfy that we kinda forget that we can't see the reaction our words can ignite or the hurt feelings just a word or two can bring on. My Mama always said that you never discuss politics or religion without knowing you're lighting a fire...I think that includes race and ethnicity.
I betcha Timmy doesn't like the role of "enforcer" anymore than you or I would and I think he's trying to tell us that we all need to look out for each other here.
If the Topic that's posted is of a serious nature, discuss it and move on to another thread. Don't forget to put yourself in the place of the person asking. I don't think we need separate places for topics...just respect for the topic and what it asks. If someone posts "I was hurt by what happened", then help them work it out. If the topic says "Dr. Pepper is not made out of prunes" then have at it.
Just be good to each other....and move on. This is a great place and no one is at fault. I know how it feels to sit staring at the monitor screen wondering WTF just happened, getting mad and blaming people. It doesn't help and just gives you ulcers.
Remember the Rules of All I Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten:
*Share
*Play fair
*Don't hit anyone
*Put things back where you found them
*Clean up your own mess
*Don't take things that aren't yours
*Say you're sorry when you hurt somebody
*When you go out in the world, watch out for traffic, hold hands and stick together
{{{{hugs}}}}
Jamie
"You have your way. I have my way. As far as the right way, the correct way, and the only way - it doesn't exist."
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As usual, Jamie, you speak words of wisdom. 
I used to have a habit, when I was upset or annoyed or upset, of sitting down and writing an essay bemoaning my point of view. It was a bit like a diary, except that more often than not I would discard it afterwards. It didn't matter if I was rude or brash or controversial because I was the only person to read it.
I think in recent weeks I've started treating this board a bit like that. Posting in an almost stream-of-consciousness way, to get things off my chest. Except that, of course, this board is not (to use an American term) a sandbox. There are real people at the other end, and they are not aware, necessarily, of the intended tone, my intentions, my outlook on life, and so on. People with their own perceptions and agendas. It's so awfully difficult to judge those things when all you have is a few words on a computer screen.
Looking back over my posts of the last few days, I can see that I may have trodden on a few people's toes. It might be a Place of Safety, but even in the most comforting of situations one has to be wary of what one says, in case one causes frictions that escalate into it not being a very safe place any more. Safety means safety for others, too, and that means respecting their views.
I apologise to anyone whose toes I may have stepped upon in the last few days. Timmy, for being difficult: it's your board, so if you ask us to do something you have every reason to expect us to do it. Cossie, Marc and Brian, for posting in your thread. Everyone else, for anything I may have done inadvertently that irritates you.
David
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If you have a MB which is all embracing with regards to people and ideas, you are going to have difficulty in imposing discipline or netiquette without destroying its all embracing character. Therefore you have to live with the possibility of a topic being 'hijacked'.
All you can ask for is that people observe the niceties of polite society.
Another point worth remembering is that not all correspondents are au fait with the mechanics of a MB. I suppose I have been visiting and writing here for two years, maybe longer, and it is only this year (2006) that I have started to get to grips with the mechanics - even learn what in computer language a thread is. That may be due to thickness, intellectual indolence or the lack of a teacher. Apart from an initial half day course on a 'Baker day' I am entirely self-taught on a need-to-know basis. I acknowledge the deep chasms in my knowledge of computers.
I trust this observation is useful.
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13801
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My only requests are at the top of the board. They are the same as they have alwasy been.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13801
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I think that is what I'd have liked to say. But I missed out on kindergarten.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I had a longish post prepared but decided to delete it....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Deeeej, you have never done anyting to irritate me or upset me. Just the opposit, you have made me laugh and you have been a friend.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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Timmy: Well, yes. The point I was trying to make is simple: Do we want to artifice up extra rules? IMHO (have been reading this board a while now, altho posting rarely), it seems to work quite fine as it is.
As for quarrels and whatnot of negative things, they happen. Trying to avoid them completely (with rigid rules and the like) would IMHO make this a most unpleasant place indeed.
Grasshopper, I do agree with your point. However, I am not sure if the recent (if any) troubles here have been caused by people not thinking before acting. Problem is, we are most human indeed, and do err.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13801
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This is really the purpose of this thread. It lets us consider our own actions and whether we have behaved as we woudl have wished.
"Rules" are really a matter of common sense, aren't they? Behaving well, and playing nicely?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I agree... But at the same time, look at the recent hijacking, of which I was a part of - I misjudged the situation quite completely.
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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Over the past five years or so, I suppose I've lurked around every gay message-board which I could find, and I've posted at quite a few.
My honest opinion is that this is the best there is - and by a huge margin - and I hold this view precisely BECAUSE the style of contol is so relaxed.
Some moderators are paranoid about what they see as flames, but we're all human and we're all prone to over-react from time to time. As an example of what I regard as stupidity, the message board attached to the site for Driver's stories was closed down completely after what - so far as I could see - was simply a disagreement between two posters. I'll not attempt to list the other offending sites, but I think that the principal reason that this site has survived and flourished is the gentleness of the guiding hand you have applied.
I know that I have been at the centre of the most recent 'issue', but I don't think that it has damaged the community - if anything, it has simply encouraged us all to try to be a little more understanding of each other.
In the nature of things, Marc and I are destined to fall out again - but it won't be fatal! We've communicated off the board, and hopefully we understand each other a little better - but being the guys we are, the potential for disagreement will always loom large! It doesn't mean that I hate Marc, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't hate me!
From a personal point of view, I think of the board as the cyber-equivalent of a group of guys chatting in a pub. In that context, the hijacking of threads - even the Cossie-Brian-Marc thread - doesn't bother me at all; that's the sort of thing that happens when good mates meet.
So, in a nutshell, my view is that you've already got it right, and if it ain't broke, don't even TRY to fix it!
You give a great deal of pleasure to a huge number of people, and I would hate that to change in any way.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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I just knew you were a lurker ;-D Ive been in a couple but not many, and to be honest most of them wound up scaring me. Then someone gave me this addy. Well IM still here, made some friends, and got one Scottish hero 
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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You really are making me wish I hadn't promised not to misbehave! Smooooch!
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13801
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We seem to be concluding that we are "good enough as we are".
That is how I designed the place. Probably "slower" than other boards in terms of topc proliferation and probably friendlier, too.
Self policing, in the main. And a guding hand rather than moderation unless things get out of hand.
Application of the normal rules of the living room, not the schoolyard, that's what we've always employed, and that looks like what we shoudl continue to employ.
I never want to restrain people, just ask them to think for just a moment or two more before trampling on someone else's corns. They might be your corns trampled on next.
Does anyone have a different view?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I don't surf the web. This is the only place I visit. Actually, I was only aware of 2 other message boards but I never go there not even to read.
I come here because Tim is my friend, or at least he was when this board was started years ago.
Without this place I seriously doubt I would be here now. It's just that simple.
As for off board communication, well yes Cossie and I exchanged 2 or so E-Mail. I guess we know each other about as well as anyone could with 1000 or so words passed back and forth between them.
I hold no person any ill will here... I never have...
But if I have something to say... I will say it...
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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