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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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did bird flu just evolve or was it the creation of something we developed but lost control of due to our own greed to control. ?? i.e. super power::-)
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the Avian Flu (or bird flu) is spacific to birds, especially chickens because they are rasised in tight quarters. The flu virus that affects the birds does not affect humans. What happens is the virus being around humans can mutate and become a strain of the virus that can infect humans. Its not the bird virus that attacks humans but a mutated virus.
durn, I watch to much learning channel. ;-D
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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you sure soumds too easy.
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If you watch the Learning channel and discovery channels, you can learn all kinds of stuff you will never have to use.;-D
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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Like in school, sort of? ;-D
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Exactly
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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As far as I know there have never been any widespread diseases that have been "developed" by humans. Occasionally there have been diseases that have become prevalent due to working practices that have turned out to be dangerous and unethical (mad cow disease comes to mind), but these have -- as far as I know -- always come about through natural mutation. Bacteria and viruses are very hardy and are constantly mutating into different forms. There's very little we can do in the case of bird 'flu except sit it out and hope that it doesn't spread to humans.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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As a major cynic, apart from noticing "bird flew", I would say that much of this has been created as media coverage by drugs companies in order first to sell anti viral drugs when the news "broke" first, and now to keep the media pot boiling to sell anti viral drugs every time an infected bird dies.
We have had bird flu before, and wild birds have died before. So have people who tend chickens. It just hasn't hit the news before because vested interests hadn't marshalled their forces before.
Now we see the film of the 1918, or was it 1919 flu epidemic. And we are now about to be scared into getting flu shots (useless because they need to be virus specific and we have no flu virus yet) and into queuing up to spend more money with enormous drug companies.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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I agree that media hype is no help at all, but influenza pandemics are cyclic. Incidentally, why do they always seem to start on the Western Pacific seaboard?
There are 'generic' vaccines which, whilst not suppressing an infection, can dramatically lessen the likelihood that it will be fatal if contracted.
The trouble is, Joe Public is caught between two opposing sides - the drug industry, focussed upon making money, and government, focussed upon not spending money. In that situation, no-one is going to tell the truth - or at least not the whole truth - but the 1918/19 pandemic, which killed more people than the extremely bloody First World War, lurks in the background like some horrific Angel of Death.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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The problem is not so much birds and humans cohabitating in tight quarters, it's that birds are kept near pigs. After a while and some random derivations from the normal flu, by chance, one of those strains jumps to pigs. Once it crosses to pigs, some more random genetic derivations happen and then it jumps to humans. Birds have systems that are closer to that of pigs than humans and so the chance of it jumping to pigs is higher than it jumping to humans from birds. And then pigs have more similar systems to humans and thus there is a greater probability of it making the jump to humans. There was a guy that came and talked to one of my classes about all of this last year. I would have a much more logical explanation but I left my notes in florida.
It's always the old to lead us to the war
It's always the young to fall
Now look at all we've won with the sabre and the gun
Tell me is it worth it all
~Phil Ochs "I Aint Marching Anymore"
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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The real message, surely, is that Influenza is a serious ailment, and always has been. Some people are immune enough not to suffer unduly and other succumb.
The post Great War flu was dreadful, certainly. It was a serious disease. We have the myth and illusion that we can treat all serious diseases today, but we are helpless to cure the common cold.
Newspapers and advertising space are to be sold, so are drugs. Profits are high when people panic buy.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Ebola has a number of rumours associated with its origin
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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intersting my thought is you cannot mess with nature.
i.e. chickens should roam, pigs should roam in fields, cattel should be in fields, could it be that if you try to alter the natural way, it will come back and bite you, i.e. viruses,and all sorts of bugs will survive and mutate eventually, it could be that they are superior to humans, you should not beleive all you are told, i could say that man never landed on the moon and that it was all staged because of the cold war ?.
The t.v. pictures wnet out round the world were of quality that we would expect today.
Please keep cool when answering. ??
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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A reality of immunology (sp) and the development of vaccines is that the influenza virus mutates at a rate faster than the technology to prevent it.
Factor into the equacion the vast amounts needed adequately protect the population is near imposible to produce.
One has to recognise that the health services do a good job.
Breakouts of disease are innevetable in a society which is no longer limited by long sea voyages which gave in the past enough time for illness to run it's course before reaching a destination.
It seems to be one of the costs of living in a global community.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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But the Center for Disease Control Laboritories in Atlanta have a program which developes new strains and accelerates mutations of presently known virus' in order to get a jump on the development of vaccines.
We have no way of knowing if there have ever been any accidents because well.... the government can not be trusted to tell us the truth.
Is is indeed a harsh reality but it invariably is one we have to live with.
Like it or not......
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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There is no such thing as a "natural state" for livestock. Humans have cultivated animals for so many thousands of years, and so many generations, that there is no way they could survive on their own. And there is no way to keep them except in close proximity to other animals, not in the scale that we need them. It is the only way we can produce enough food for everyone (not quite everyone, unfortunately).
I admit that the current mass-production system for food is not perfect. But the alternative is for us all to give up our civilisation and go back to a hunter-gatherer-type society. Unfortunately there are so many people now in the world that it would mean mass famine and the complete destruction of society as we know it.
>it could be that they are superior to humans
What do you mean by superior? Reproductive capability? Hardiness? Longevity of the species? In that case micro-organisms such as bacteria and viruses win hands down. On the other hand, if it's intelligence and the ability to control one's environment, there is no other organism in the world that even comes close to us.
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As for longevity, hardiness, reproductive ability, etc. etc.. The cock roach ;-D
Ok guys were going beck to the Learning Channel. If you take a domesticated animal and turn it loose in the wild, it will revert back to the wild. (for instance dog,turkeys, hogs, etc.). There is one domestic animal that will not revert back to the wild state, its the cow. Its like they never were wild, or they are really stupid. ;-D
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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The interesting thing about dogs is that the different breeds are very artificial. Let them breed with whichever animal they please and after a few generations they will have returned to a generic "mutt" that is very similar to what their real, wild ancestors would have looked like. And genetically mongrels are much better at coping with independent life because they have the best of all genes, not just those that make for lustrous coats or long tails or good teeth or whatever it is dog breeders look for.
On the other hand, cows have never been bred for variety. The cows we see now are nothing like their primitive counterparts. I'm not sure if there is enough genetic variety left for us to be able to return them to the wild, even over a period of a many generations. What we have now are animals bred to be nice to eat, produce plenty of milk, but are also incredibly in-bred and stupid. You could say that we have already destroyed the cow as a viable species.
I think the whole genetic engineering debate is laughable. You only have to look at farmyard animals to see that we've been genetically engineering animals for centuries. Just very slowly.
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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do you have a sense of humer......:-/
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>do you have a sense of humer......
What's that personal comment got to do with this thread?
If I have something constructive to say, I will say it, whether it is funny or not. Until someone (especially Timmy) tells me otherwise. And for the record, yes, I do have a sense of humour. I just don't find bird flu and genetics terribly funny. Interesting, yes, but not funny.
That's not to say that I didn't find Brian's post both amusing and insightful. He is right that the cockroach is one of the most "successful" animals on the planet, in more ways than one. And also that cows are stupid -- but there is a reason for that. So I posted an aside about selective breeding as a postscript to it.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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shhh. If he meant to rile you he managed. if he didn't mean to he still managed. Such comments escalate, unfortunatley, into full scale wars. Better to let it alone.
And this is even handed. jack, that was not nice
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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all i was saying is be cool life is interesting if you dont look at it so matter of fact, iment no malice, i dont have a nasty bone in my body. )
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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so I guess you boys are gonna kiss and make up?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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depends on how good he is at kissing,...oh you dont have to if you dont want to save it for later. hugs.
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Mm, righty-ho, then.
Sorry, jack, old chap.
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Jack,
If you're planning on staying for a while, why don't you register an account? And I don't think you ever posted an introductory post about yourself.
If we're going to kiss and make up, it'd be nice to know something about whom I'm kissing. 
Deeej
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Yeh its better that way. They had to drag it out of me kicking an screaming. ;-D
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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No Message Body
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Attachment: birdflu.JPG
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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soon i am shy...
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