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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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Do you believe in an eye for an eye?
Let us assume that you do not believe in capital punishment and fully believe that once some one is put in prison they can be healed to rejoin society as good citizens.
Then one day your young daughter is rapped and murdered by some one who you used to visit in prison.
Would your views change?
hope i am not being rude to any one.
 ??
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>Do you believe in an eye for an eye?
No.
>Let us assume that you do not believe in capital punishment and fully believe that once some one is put in prison they can be healed to rejoin society as good citizens.
That is quite hard to believe -- I am not, and never will be of the opinion that absolutely anyone can be "healed" to "go forth and sin no more" (to use another Biblical reference). Some people are so dangerous that they have to be locked up for the rest of their lives simply to protect everyone else from them. And while I don't believe in the death penalty, I do believe in a certain amount of retribution to act as a deterrent.
>Then one day your young daughter is rapped and murdered by some one who you used to visit in prison.
>Would your views change?
I don't know. I would like to think not -- emotional responses are rarely logical ones, and I'm generally pretty logical. If my views did change, then it would be an understandable reaction to an extreme situation. But I don't think my views should necessarily be honoured. Laws are made by a supposedly disinterested legal and political system, precisely so that in cases like this the law can be enforced without bias. Unfortunately, all too often emotional responses do creep into the legal system and judgements and laws are made on that basis rather than through the use of sound logic.
David
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Ah, it was just "Go, and sin no more" in the case of the woman being stoned (KJV, John 8:11). Even so, my version is okay if you take it as a slightly different translation of the original Greek. (No, I haven't seen the original Greek; not of that chapter, anyway.)
Not that I'm usually in the habit of quoting the Bible, but if I'm doing it I might as well get it right.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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It is hard to answer this when I do not support you basic assumption. My views would not change. I do not see why it has to be my daughter, though.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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then let us assume it is a loved one.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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Makes no difference. I do not support your basic assumption.
And I would happily execute them myself.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I support capital punnishment for certain crimes, murder being one of them...... Rape is right up there with the life imprisonment list.
As far as crimes against children...... I believe a fair amount of time in a largish room with appropriate members of the victoms family and then jail time after the release from the hospital of course.
I do not believe in parol in any form.
Do the crime...... Do the time......
I also believe that miscreants can be rehabilitated to return to society as law abiding and productive members of society. But the burdeon of proof of such rehabilitation is upon the convict to provide by their actions following release.
A bit severe, perhaps, but I have had a seat in the arena and have seen first hand the results of heinous crime.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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First off: No, I do not believe in an eye for an eye. It's far too simplistic. Punishment should be related to the crime, and in that context I believe that intention is at least as important as outcome.
Second: I do believe in the possibility of redemption, but I definitely DO NOT believe that imprisonment will necessarily - or even frequently - lead to redemption. And I agree with Deeej that imprisonment should involve an element of punishment.
Third: If a rapist/murderer is released into society, we are entitled to ask why this happened. I've argued in another thread that there is something inherently wrong with a system in which Government (regardless of political persuasion) tries to reduce the prison population on economic grounds and Government pays the 'experts' who decide upon fitness for release. That said, I accept that psychoanalysts are only human and will inevitably be wrong from time to time.
Fourth: If my daughter were raped and murdered, of course it would change my view. I, too, am only human, and no doubt I'd be baying for blood. But, again, I agree entirely with Deeej - that is precisely why decisions should not be in the hands of those directly affected by criminal acts.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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I dont believe in capital punishment. The bravest thing I ever saw, was Matthew Sheapaeds father standing in front of a court and asking them to spare the life of the man who brutally beat his son to death, and hung him on a fence post to die. I dont know If I was a father if I could do that.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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I do not accept capital punishment. My whole religious tradition is against judicial murder. This links up with my comment concerning "interpretation" of Biblical commands in another thread.
I will not bore you now with how the Jewish sages 2000 years ago turned intellectual sommersaults in order to abolish the death penalty. But let me note that they understood the concept of "an eye for an eye" as referring only to monetary compensation and to limitation: one eye for one eye. They stipulated that dammages (a fine) for an eye must be restricted to the (subjective) value of that eye for the person who suffered the injury - and the money stipulated by the judges goes to the victim not to society.
In everything else I agree with what has already been said by David and Cossie.
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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... as I, too, am entirely opposed to capital punishment. All I am trying to say is that if the victim were my own daughter emotion might well outweigh rationalism - and for that reason I should have no part in judgement.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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I do hold with capital punishment for some crimes where it has been shown beyond any doubt that the accused did the crime. If there is any doubt whatsoever then it should be life in prison. I also want to have a good review of every case and if new evidence is presented later it should certainly be brought up to scrutiny.
We have a system which is called a justice system, but in my view it is highly prone to error and many times justice is far from being done. Unfortunately, there is no way to write into law all the nuences that are found in finding someone guilty of a crime and applying the correct punishment. It is easy to be cynical and convict many who are not really guilty just because they are in the wrong place at the wrong time. Also our system is prone to allowing many to escape punishment who should be punished.
That all said, I find it reprehensible that our jails are one of the most unsafe places you could ever find yourself. There is no excuse for having rape going on in a routine way. I remember one of our presidents promising to put a cop on every corner to curtail crime and I almost laughed at that one. I can show you places where there are cops every 50' and you are not at all safe............our prisons. What a disgrace for us to have such a thing. I am not being soft on crime here; I just want to see someone given the punishment they are supposed to get and not to be raped and made the slave of anyone. Yeah, I know some guys may not mind the role, but I dont think I would like it much.
Just wanted to say my piece about this and I hope you all can understand I am just trying to be idealistic I guess.
Ken
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