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There are a few thoughts that I want to pass along to the members of this group. First I want to thank each of you for allowing me to be a member and to participate when I have been moved to do so. You have all been quite patient with my lack of computer skills not to mention bad spelling and lack of punctuation. You even got me passed my obsession of attaching pictures with my every response. I am very fond of colorful pictures and especially men with wings and things.
With all due modesty I have no doubt that I am the least knowledgeable member of this forum. From the youngest of us Deeej I suspect, to whom ever is the oldest you’re a great group of guys. Your conversations and for lack of a better word debates on subjects are very interesting and informative.
There is one emotion that pops up on here from time to time that I find unsettling. That is the ability to know when to end a thread without getting upset and feeling you are not wanted here anymore. The old no body loves me everybody hates me I think I will eat some worms, I won’t play anymore, I will keep my mouth shut, leave the group etc. You are all far too intelligent to not be able to win on points instead of pride.
I love you all and would feel bad if any of you drifted off due to being too sensitive especially when being insensitive was the farthest thing from the offenders mind.
Navyone (Gary)
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>From the youngest of us Deeej I suspect, to whom ever is the oldest you’re a great group of guys.
I'm not quite sure how old he is, but Brian's definitely the youngest here; and though I am probably the youngest very regular poster, I know personally of at least three intermittent-to-regular posters who are a year or two younger than me.
>There is one emotion that pops up on here from time to time that I find unsettling. That is the ability to know when to end a thread without getting upset and feeling you are not wanted here anymore. The old no body loves me everybody hates me I think I will eat some worms, I won’t play anymore, I will keep my mouth shut, leave the group etc. You are all far too intelligent to not be able to win on points instead of pride.
As a lurker on more than one board, I'm aware that this seems to happen a lot on the internet; much more than in real life, in fact. In real life, (regrettably, possibly) people will choose their friends so as not to expose themselves to thoughts that they don't like. Hence disagreements on intellectual topics are rarer. It's easier to express dissatisfaction in an apparently rude way on a board than it is to casual aquaintances in real life. And it's easier to think that something is rude because of the lack of cues such as tone of voice or facial expression.
I'm sorry that it's happened here, but I don't think that it is something that can be guarded against through board-wide policy. I think everyone has to realise that what seems like an attack on him personally is unlikely to seem like that to the person at the other end.
David
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I said,
>I'm not quite sure how old he is, but Brian's definitely the youngest here; and though I am probably the youngest very regular poster, I know personally of at least three intermittent-to-regular posters who are a year or two younger than me.
Specifically, instead of:
>and though I am probably the youngest very regular poster,
I should have written:
>and though, after him, I am probably the youngest very regular poster,
I didn't mean to imply that Brian was not a very regular poster.
That personally is a redundant, too, now I come to think of it. One can know a person personally, but I don't think one can know of a person personally.
Aargh! It's all because I should have gone to bed three hours ago. It's a pity this place seems only to liven up at this time of night.
David
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pimple
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Likes it here |
Location: USA
Registered: March 2006
Messages: 375
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I'd like to be.
Greetings Gary
This is not a thread that I'd usually reply to, I figure interpersonal relationships in the ether is the realm of someone more suave than me. Besides; everyone here is too old to take instructions.
I think it all tastes better with a liberal application of humor. Broadly applied, like mustard, to the topics, my contributions and views, and the replies and views of everyone else. I don't come here to preach - or to hear sermons. I do come to have my thoughts stimulated by exchange with others.
Perhaps it is easier for me because I am such an outsider. I don't share the world view or sensibility of the group, and I suspect I set the curve on age distribution. Yet I do enjoy the repartee and camaraderie.
Lastly, I take issue with your thanking us for allowing you membership. No one other than the Boss, who created the site, allowed you - you barged right in just like the rest of us!
Regards-
Simon
Joy Peace and Tranquility
Joyceility
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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... about it being easier to give offence when posting to a forum than it is when communicating face to face. I don't think that the principle applies only to the internet; I suspect that the essential distinction is between written and spoken communication.
I also agree with Simon that humour can be an excellent lubricant for potentially difficult exchanges; the problem is that British and American humour is sometimes very different; on occasion, humour can even fan the flames if the other party feels that he isn't being taken sufficiently seriously.
The rule to which I work is that if I have hard evidence for my point of view I expect that view to be accepted unless equally hard evidence can be put forward to show that I am wrong. In these Googling days, hard evidence isn't difficult to find. I'm pretty sure that Deeej follows the same basic rule, as do several other posters. If I'm merely expressing an opinion, and no-one else puts forward hard evidence, I'm quite happy to agree to disagree, or even to change my own view. But in all this, I see no possible defence for rudeness.
Lately, we seem to have tackled some fairly profound subjects, but sometimes we discuss absolute rubbish - it's all part of the charm of this forum!
No-one should ever feel that they cannot say what they think here. Everybody's contribution is valued; the more contibutors, the better the discussions. I suspect that your post may have been provoked by my recent 'confrontation' with Marc, but as Timmy has already said, it isn't the man who is unwelcome, it's just the behaviour. Which is better - to sit back, say nothing, and tolerate damaging behaviour, or to confront it in an attempt to limit the damage?
I fully appreciate that the views of others may differ from my own - and the others may well be right. I simply did as I thought was best in the overall interests of a community for which I have the greatest affection.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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a reply that the poster thought was amusing can really make a reader say WTF.
Case in point, the thread about "English" as spoken by one country and another. I was okay until I hit the words *mangled and tolerate* and then I began to growl and it went downhill from there. My reaction was well *can we say elitist*? So, I backed off and walked away, not because I'm unable to form words into thoughts, but my replies were cranky. Sometimes, what is thought to be funny to some posters is taken in a totally diff light by others.
I know when I read that people use their spellchecker to change my *mangled* slang into proper King's English, my first thought was **Jeez, the whole flavor of the story, the setting and the characters, has been lost**. sigh...You might as well take my guys and stick them in one of those totally confusing British schools and let the "Brilliant/Bloody Hell" begin.
So, yep, stuff you'd never say to someone's face (for fear of getting whupped) gets said in cyberspace......and that's that 
Happy Sunday morning ~
GH
"You have your way. I have my way. As far as the right way, the correct way, and the only way - it doesn't exist."
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Grasshopper said:
>I know when I read that people use their spellchecker to change my *mangled* slang into proper King's English, my first thought was **Jeez, the whole flavor of the story, the setting and the characters, has been lost**. sigh...You might as well take my guys and stick them in one of those totally confusing British schools and let the "Brilliant/Bloody Hell" begin.
I agree with you -- I would never do something like that. I hate spell checkers, anyway: they usually get it wrong. Even if they could correct the slang perfectly (and, of course, slang comprises a great deal more than just spelling), it would change the character of the story completely.
I'm aware that there are a lot of different opinions round here, but I think the vast majority of people like to read their English in the dialect it was written in.
As for mangled -- the reason that word came up was that Brian said that English cannot be mangled, which I disagreed with. Forget the debate about which is "better", British or American. It is perfectly possible to mangle either dialect -- just get the grammar and spelling so wrong as to make it incomprehensible. I would never refer to American in an unqualified way as mangled British English: it's inflammatory and unhelpful.
One of the problems we have encountered recently is that some of us (Cossie, me, JFR, others) are pretty pedantic and like to approach each subject in a clinical manner (though, admittedly, sometimes with a certain amount of advocacy); and there are others who don't view the subject in such a clinical way and are more likely to see a counter-post as an attack on their beliefs. So they respond with emotion rather than logic, leading, possibly, to further logical faults on their part; a "clinical" person responds with a rebuttal; and suddenly they feel upset and hurt because they feel that their position has become untenable. Unfortunately, that is the way that discussion (or argument, in the scientific sense) works.
Best wishes,
David
P.S. It's Queen's English at the moment.
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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Jamie's post draws attention to one aspect of humour which is apparently peculiar to the British. In a group who know each other and consider themselves to be friends, there is a presumption that within the group no-one would seriously insult anyone else - unless of course there had been an obvious and major falling-out! Thus, any comment which, superficially, is really insulting will be treated as humorous. So if I turn to a friend and say 'OK, you useless over-fed parasite, it's your turn to get the drinks in', it won't cause offence: he'll either pour the remains of his previous drink over my head, or he'll reply in kind!
I'd hope that I've been around this forum long enough for it to be obvious that I don't cusomarily insult other posters, so when I use a phrase like 'Rebellious Colonials' it's intended as a term of affection rather than an insult. Deeej has explained how the word 'mangled' came into the discussion about language, and - having re-read most of the posts - I think that when the word was used as a criticism of American English, those making the criticism had their tongues pretty firmly in their cheeks! Otherwise, the word was used in expressing the view that English (be it British or American) has a particular strength because it remains intelligible even after a moderate mangling. It's fun to point out the differences between British and American English, and - because it's fun - tongue-in-cheek remarks are only to be expected. That doesn't alter the fact that the languages are different but equally valid; there's no question of one being 'right' and the other 'wrong'.
Incidentally, I think the 'spellchecker' thing has wandered out of context; the spellchecker won't change words, just spellings. 'Sidewalk' won't change into 'pavement', but 'color' will change to 'colour' Some people find that this makes text easier to read, and I assume the same is true for some Americans reading British English. I don't think it has any significant effect upon the ambience of a story.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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