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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I read "Ender's Game" first. The enemy are an ant-like race (This is not Starship Troopers), He calls them "Buggers". And they are a vicious and implaccable foe. Don;t put any spoilers in here. This book I recommend for sure.
Why "Buggers"?
Has this man an anti-gay agenda? Articles about him "swing both ways" on this.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Well, the noun "bugger" normally means a contemptible person (as in "he's a silly bugger") or a nuisance ("he's playing silly buggers"). If the aliens are ants then it would seem like a facetious play on the word "bug", not any sort of homophobic slur. It's only the verb (to bugger) and the practice (buggery) that are inextricably linked to sex.
Are you sure you're not reading too much into this? (Disclaimer: I haven't read either of the books you mention.)
David
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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It grated. "bugger" is also a derogatory word for a gay person, or was. And it is used throughout. But, oddly, the book is mildly homoerotic, in a subliminal way.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Well, I dunno. I'd be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. Course, I haven't read the book, and I'm usually somewhat naive on matters of that nature. (I'd never heard the word "fag" in a gay context until a couple of years ago. As far as I'm concerned, a fag is a cigarette or a junior boy. And a faggot is a bunch of sticks.)
I think we (as in, gay people) need to be careful not to take objection to words when there's an alternative explanation that makes sense, unless they can be proven to have been used maliciously. Otherwise, it looks like political correctness gone mad and pisses off Daily Mail readers.
Come to think of it, I don't think that's a disadvantage. 
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Timmy, having read all the books in the series I tend to agree with David that you are "reading in" here something that was not the author's intention at all. They are "buggers" simply because they are bugs and they are the enemy.
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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When one has read all the "Ender" books it transpires that according to the author the 'bugs' are not the greatest threat to life in the universe.
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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While you may well be right, it still grated. It was an odd choice of words.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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What should he have called them?
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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An interesting question. "Buggers" does not, for me, work. And "bugs" is too trivial.
I think there was the suggestion of "formics" implying ants, yet they have a "hive".
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Well, from what I've picked up, it sounds like "buggers" is a colloquial name.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formics
In real life, colloquial names are not always intuitive; in that sense, it's almost more authentic to have a slightly silly name.
It would not have occurred to me to equate "a bugger" with buggery. But my language is more old-fashioned than that of most people.
David
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I thought a bugger was what you picked out of your nose
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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Not in the UK.
There may be a word similar to that in America but I'm sure it's not spelt like that.
David
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Those would be "bogies" here, and I think "booger" (sp?) there
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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My elderly Websters gives bugger> as a variant of booger , a small piece of dried nasal mucus. Neither Chambers nor the CD version of the SOED that I have recognises this - and none of the dictionaries that I have in the flat recognise what I've always called them - bogies, (possibly spelled bogeys ?)
Without wishing to confirm Brians prejudice against females too much, one of the jobs that a certain rather well-known actress used to get the stage management to do was to check her appearance before going on stage for each entrance ... she was particularly concerned that she should not have any such bits of dired nasal mucus visible ... I will not easily forget her sticking her head into the stage management office every night and saying "bogey-check time, love".
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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... 'bugger' is a word which embraces both sodomy and bestiality; it has no especial homosexual connection, other than the fact that a bugger is necessarily male.
It has developed various colloquial uses, for example to describe an unpleasant (nasty b..) or stupid (silly b..) person, again customarily male. It occurs in phrases such as 'bugger it' (=damn it), 'bugger all' (=nothing at all), 'bugger about' (=fool around), 'bugger off' (=go away) and 'bugger up' (=spoil or ruin).
I can't recollect hearing 'bugger' used in a homophobic connection in Scotland or the North of England.
The word ultimately derives from the early medieval Latin 'Bulgarus', meaning a member of the Greek Orthodox Church (as opposed to the Roman Catholic Church). The state of Bulgaria takes its name from the same source. It was absorbed into Old French as 'bougre', meaning a heretic - obviously derived from the Latin meaning; by the time it arrived in English it seems to have acquired its current meaning, presumably because such behaviour is prohibited by the Bible and is thus - in a sense - heretical.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with nasal mucus!
Here endeth the lesson!
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Over there..... perhaps.....
but here..... it is what you pick from your nose.....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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... that's a booger!
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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More of the same I guess....
Main Entry: 1 bug·ger
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English bougre heretic, from Middle French, from Medieval Latin Bulgarus, literally, Bulgarian; from the association of Bulgaria with the Bogomils, who were accused of sodomy
1 : SODOMITE
2 a : a worthless person : RASCAL b : FELLOW, CHAP
3 : a small or annoying thing
Main Entry: boog·er
Function: noun
Etymology: alteration of English dialect buggard, boggart, from 1bug + -ard
1 : BOGEYMAN
2 : a piece of dried nasal mucus
Main Entry: bur·ger
Function: noun
1 : HAMBURGER
2 : a sandwich similar to a hamburger -- often used in combination
3 : a piece of dried nasal mucus (if purchased at McDonald's)
(\\__/) And if you don't believe The sun will rise
(='.'=) Stand alone and greet The coming night
(")_(") In the last remaining light. (C. Cornell)
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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... you weren't talking about Bugger King, 'cos I go there quite often!
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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According to the dictionary of american slang.....
Bugger and booger are both correct.
but you are probably right.....
because I am always wrong.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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The mucus used at burger king comes from the other end of the anatomical chain.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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