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Timmy, I appologise to you for letting this whole things aggrivate you. This is not the first time Simon has said things to me with shadowed meanings. As far as im concerned the thread is dead. I just wanted to start a thread that was kinda funny and would be amusing but someone wanted to make it sonething else. Again Im sorry for upsetting you I sure didnt want to.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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Shhhh, Brian. Don't fret. Get on with your life, and do the job you do so well: making all of US happy. 
HUGS
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13801
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I am not upset. I am simply always concerned when two people seem to be falling out.
I hope that apparent falling out may be set straight
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Brian,
You didn't upset me in the slightest. In fact, I appreciated the thread. It was amusing.
Just ignore Simon. He's a bit insensitive sometimes. (And so are we all, from time to time. Me especially, before someone points it out. It's one of the problems with conversations on the Internet -- you don't pick up the subtle cues that would prevent something like this.)
Best wishes,
David
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pimple
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Likes it here |
Location: USA
Registered: March 2006
Messages: 375
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Sage advise that I would surely cherish - if I weren't already ignoring me almost all the time.
I'm glad you were amused, that was my intent.
Regards
Simon
Joy Peace and Tranquility
Joyceility
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Deeej, I have been ignoring things for a while but there comes a time when it cant be ignored any more. Im a kid but im not a coward and I will stand toe to toe with anyone. I thought of a lot of things to say but I wont. I think IM better than that. I dont have to stoop to the mental level of people like my moms boyfriends. They have all this life experience but they are still dumb as a hand full of rocks.
Like I said, as far as Im concerned the thread is dead. Timmy can do as he pleases with it.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13801
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forgive me. I confess I am rather lost. Please can you be specific with what upset you. Again, please let's keep emotions out of it.
I'm not at all sure I understand, but I am very willing to.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Thank you, Timmy. I just thought I was being rather thick.
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13801
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I'm sorry to appear to be so thick. I think it all went wrong just about at:
>First Simon, I dont mistreat anyone or abuse them, even females. I try not to get angry or make rude comments to other people unless they really piss me off. I dont abuse females, but nobody said I had to like them. If you like females so much, you can have my share ok? I have a good reason for disliking and not trusting females, but that is my business. You have as Timmy would put it Hijacked this thread. In that case IM out of here and you can argue whatever point you so desspirately are trying to make. Im pretty sure its to show what a wonderful intelligent well meaning person you are. After all, Im only 15 and cant possibly be smarter than you are, Right?
Now I guess I should be able to spot it, but something caused that. It seems to be Simon's comment abouty signature blocks, but these look like symotoms, to me, not the actual cause.
I'd like to get to the point where you two at least understand each other well enough to see each other's viewpoint. You never have to agree. Or even like each other.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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pimple
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Likes it here |
Location: USA
Registered: March 2006
Messages: 375
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My impression is that I hit a nerve in his 'real' life. It was never my intention to cause him pain. I wish I believed the reverse were true.
Regards
Simon
Joy Peace and Tranquility
Joyceility
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13801
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the reality is, I think, that neither meant to hurt the other.
Brian has had some deeply unpleasant experiences and lays the blame firmly at the female of the species's door. It behoves us to respect that and to work with it. A child (as he was then) in fear of molestation from his mother's boyfriends deserves our ears more than our mouths. And our love and friendship
Both we and he are also allowed to make mistakes. He is not immune from making a fool of himself as we are not either
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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pimple
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Likes it here |
Location: USA
Registered: March 2006
Messages: 375
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Boss I feel obligated to reply, and at the same time believe that replying is exactly the wrong thing to do.
I don't know his back story or his devils. I just know that I am not one of them!. I attempted to care but that was also wrong.
I intend to give him a wide berth hereafter.
Regards
Simon
Joy Peace and Tranquility
Joyceility
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pimple
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Likes it here |
Location: USA
Registered: March 2006
Messages: 375
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No Message Body
Joy Peace and Tranquility
Joyceility
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13801
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We do not all have to agree, or even like each other. That is not the point here. We simply have to walk a little way in the other man's moccasins and start to learn why he is as he is.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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... so this is my first opportunity to post on this thread. I simply want to make my position unequivocally clear.
You all know that despite the fact that we have never met, I care a great deal about Brian and have done so since his first tentative steps to join our community. It is not for me to recite his history; it is sufficient to say that he has had a pretty raw deal in life. Despite the difficult circumstances which still surround him, he has grown up to be a bright, intelligent kid, selected for a special school for high achievers. He has a bright future ahead of him when he can take control of his life into his own hands. But, for now, he has a lot to contend with, and he is only FIFTEEN years old.
Simon, you upset both Brian and I with an extremely rude post a few weeks ago. You subsequently apologised, but not surprisingly he has been wary of you since then. I have no intention of quoting chapter and verse, as you suggested in the earlier thread, but I do think that, albeit unwittingly, you adopt a slightly condescending tone when addressing our younger posters. This means that the risk of offence is significantly increased. But what concerns me is what I believe to be an infringement of one of the unwritten rules which govern sites such as this. Private lives remain private, unless someone wishes to talk about himself. Several members of our community have past or present problems or experiences which they wish to suppress. Brian has, with valid reason, an aversion for the female of the species - at least those below the age of grandmotherhood. It was clear from his responses that this was an area into which he did not want to go, yet you kept pushing him. If you were insufficiently sensitive to see that, the problem rests more with you than it does with him.
We have obliquely disagreed before about the importance I attach to the views expressed by young people, but I remain committed to that principle. I may not accept their views on a given subject, but I will try to explain my reasons for differing without appearing dismissive. I will extend the them the courtesy which I would hope to receive myself. I do however recognise that skin thickens with age, and that it is unfair to ignore their vulnerability.
The suggestion in your latest posts that you will give Brian a wide berth in future may in practical terms be a good thing, but the manner in which you express it is childish and implies that you feel that you are in no way to blame. I do not accept that. Perhaps you should give me a wide berth, too.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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In an attempt to dispel some of the acrimony with a spot of humour, here comes the pedant again:
cossie wrote:
you upset both Brian and I
Tut tut! What has happened to your grammar?
)
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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... dammit, you expect me to distinguish subject and object at a time like this?
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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pimple
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Likes it here |
Location: USA
Registered: March 2006
Messages: 375
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I'm sorry Cozie, but you don't belong in this discussion.
What ever my issues are, they are with Brian, and you have no part in the discussion.
It seems that letting something go is a major accomplishment here.
Now, having some history, I'll stick with definition #2
Regard-
Simon
Joy Peace and Tranquility
Joyceility
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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... you can deny my part in this exchange. You are 68, Brian is 15. Pick on someone your own size, like me - leave Brian alone. There is more I could say, but I won't - for now.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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Jedediah
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Likes it here |
Location: Made in NZ
Registered: March 2006
Messages: 170
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You go Cossie! I was going to shut up, but if I don't say something I'll burst. Cossie has every right to speak in the defence of his friend, and good on him. I agree with every word he has said.
Joy? Peace? Tranquility?
E Te Atua tukuna mai ki au te Mauri tauki te tango i nga mea
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pimple
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Likes it here |
Location: USA
Registered: March 2006
Messages: 375
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72, but I won't hold it against you, not everybody can do math.
You are free to say whatever you like, I will listen to the muse, the issue is if you are making it better? I think not.
Regards
Simon
Joy Peace and Tranquility
Joyceility
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pimple
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Likes it here |
Location: USA
Registered: March 2006
Messages: 375
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I have picked on anyone.
Nor will I. Our expectations of youth are worlds apart. I'm glad that you are not in charge.
Regards
Simon
Joy Peace and Tranquility
Joyceility
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What it is to live in denial! Unless your sense of perception is being dulled by age, Simon.
However, I think not. I believe you go too far on occasion, quite deliberately. I sincerely believe I would have taken umbrage at some of your replies, and I'm 59, not 15.
I couldn't sit here and read anymore without being honest with you. Of course this is just my personal opinion. I have a hide like a rhinoceros just so you know.
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pimple
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Likes it here |
Location: USA
Registered: March 2006
Messages: 375
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I will allow you no such luxury. You are destine to interpret the views of others as though they were your own.
I hope that not everyone is as silly as...
Regards
Simon
Joy Peace and Tranquility
Joyceility
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pimple
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Likes it here |
Location: USA
Registered: March 2006
Messages: 375
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I have tried to let this go, and yet it haunts me. I make no claims for being the perfect human being, but I do claim that I have been honest and forthright in all replies and posts.
regards
Simon
Joy Peace and Tranquility
Joyceility
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13801
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I ask for things to be discussed unemotionally. And I get all sorts of hidden vitriol.
OK, that was absolutely against what I asked for and against the result I expected would happen.
I know this is a reply to brian's post, but that is to get it to the foot of the list and for no other reason.
I confess to disappointment. I am not keen on much of this. I am not sure I care about the actual rights and wrongs, but I am sure I care about the row.
Youth does not have special privileges, nor does age. Respect is there as a matter of right. It is then either increaesed or lost depending on one's own actions
The only thing I do are about is people's sensibilities. If someone is sensitive to something, do not poke them directly. If it is a topic that should be aired, depersonalise it (I make that remark because we do raise serious topics that occasionally cause marc to visit places he would rather not), and make it an academic discussion, never a personal one.
This was an attempt to let people cool down. It seems not to have worked.
This is not a schoolyard. So we do not take sides and have fights. That was an instruction, not an observation
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13801
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No, Simon. I use the word "We" as the first person plural, in the nominative case. Thus it means all of us.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Simon Rutlust wrote:
> I'm sorry Cozie, but you don't belong in this discussion.<
I'm afraid that once you put a discussion on a MB it belongs to everyone and they belong in it.
That is a matter of fact, not of opinion.
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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I wasnt going to say anymore about this, but! I was starting to think that I was wrong and maybe being to sensitive. It seems that I wasnt the only one who saw underlying meaning in what was said.
As far as Cossie saying anything! Would you not come to your grandsons or your friends defense if you percieved something wrong?
I know all this aggravates Timmy and I can understand why. Im willing to let this whole thing drop and start a new day. This is my safe place like it is for a lot of you and I want to feel welcomed here all the time.
I care about everyone of you, so lets get back to having fun and mind straining discussions.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13801
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That works well for me.
You are allowed your sensitivities. We should seek not to trample on them. We will not always succeed.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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"I confess to disappointment. I am not keen on much of this. I am not sure I care about the actual rights and wrongs, but I am sure I care about the row."
That is a VERY dangerous assertion. We should all - and always - care about the actual rights and wrongs. That is what makes us what we are. To dismiss an argument as a 'squabble' is - to be frank - insulting. We either believe in civilised intercourse, or we don't.
I honestly believe that I have never provoked a disagreement on your messageboard, I have simply reacted to others whose opinions have been unreasonable. But I have spent the last twenty years of my life arguing dispassionately about what I believe to be right, and if that is not acceptable, I will leave. I hope I don't have to, because I believe that this is one of the best forums on the internet - but to be an effective webmaster you cannot sit on the fence - you must make it clear where you want this site to go.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13801
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cossie wrote:
> "I confess to disappointment. I am not keen on much of this. I am not sure I care about the actual rights and wrongs, but I am sure I care about the row."
>
> That is a VERY dangerous assertion. We should all - and always - care about the actual rights and wrongs. That is what makes us what we are. To dismiss an argument as a 'squabble' is - to be frank - insulting. We either believe in civilised intercourse, or we don't.
>
I thought the context made it clear, but perhaps I did not do it justice. So let me try again.
"Because the angry behaviour persisted after I had asked for posts in this thread to be made unemotionally I stopped caring about rights and wrongs. That they are important to the participants is clear, but the behaviour has nullified that in my eyes. I thus no longer care."
I think it is unfair that you have now personalised this as an apparent attack on you including the "and if that is not acceptable, I will leave" mantra. Read quietly the statement I make here that "you may go, return or stay at your discretion, and always at your discretion." That statement is always true. If you stay that is good. If you go then we will miss you. If as before you leave and later return then you are as welcome then as you were at the beginning. There is no hidden meaning in my statement.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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