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I am planning on writing a 10,000 word dissertation for my degree, and I'm planning on writing on the present-day attitude of the British media towards gay people (+ lesbian, transgender, bisexual etc.) and gay issues. This is a subject that people have touched upon a few times on this board, and one that I've found quite interesting.
I'm totally aware of the bias within the British tabloid press, even though it's relatively subtle these days. If I wanted to write on that I would have any amount of material to work with -- but I don't like the tabloids, and I don't read the tabloids (only very occasionally the Daily Mail, an "up-market" right-wing British women-oriented tabloid -- ugh!), and hence I would rather not have to spend my time buying and reading them. I'd much rather do something film-related, or possibly television-related.
I have not been able to find much current "proper" research into the topic, I think possibly (i) because the political landscape has changed so quickly, making research from even 10 years ago relevant only as guidelines; (ii) because homosexuality is something you only really write about if you have a personal interest, and most people don't; and (iii) because American/international research doesn't necessarily transfer to British society. (I may also not have been looking hard enough.)
Okay, so my question: can anyone think of a field or two within television or film (and this would have to be British television or film within the last five years, not a very big field, especially on the film front) that has interesting anti-gay undercurrents, or an adherence to stereotypes, or even a supposedly neutral or pro-gay attitude that is sometimes questionable? It doesn't matter if it's a soap or trashy daytime television: to a certain extent, the shallower the material, the easier it is to analyse.
I'll increase the scope of the question so that if you have some ideas about American television or films made for an international market that might made their way across to Britain, please feel free to comment as well.
For that matter, please let me know if you think I should be writing on something else that is related but not quite the same. Or even if you think the whole idea is a stupid one.
Thanks in advance,
David
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Positive:
When Eastenders started there was a very prominent gay sub story culminating in a male/male kiss Actor was Michael Cashman I think
A play that became movie: "Beautiful Thing" - somewhat surreal, but competent
The movie "Get Real"
I never watched it, but "My Beautiful launderette"
Coronation Street - a young lad who fancied Adam Rickett, and took an older male nurse as a lover.
Obviously Queer as Folk, the UK series ONLY
Emmerdale with Zoe Tate the lesbian
What was that Oliver Reed nude wrestling scene? Women in love I think? too old
Lawrence of Arabia. Subtle but present. too old
"Are you being served"
"'Allo 'Allo"
Against:
Till Death us Do Part (OK I'm guessing here)
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Thank you, Timmy.
I'm looking specifically for things from the past five years, however. So, as valid as they were at the time, most of those don't really count now (except as part of an evaluation of historical context.) I was sort of hoping to be able to do some research that was vaguely original (ha ha -- for an undergraduate degree? I must be joking).
I've just been watching 'Allo 'Allo and it really doesn't do gay people any favours. Hmm... well, I suppose it's not homophobic either.
I will have to watch "Queer as Folk". I saw one episode of the American version and it rather put me off. (It's 7 years old now, of course.)
David
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I was afraid it was all in the past, and too far. Cor9onation Street and Emmerdale are probably ok, though. The others may set yout thoughts running
The UK Queer as Folk is somewhat surreal. Is it really 7 years? I am not sure what light it holds gay people in, other than a normal microsection of society
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Fascinating area to explore! A few random thoughts:
I'm not a great one for television, but I suspect the whole language of discourse was radically changed by the first series of "Queer as Folk" in the UK. Both the positives (lack of guilt, first showing of the act of rimming on TV, showing a variety of types of gay men not just one stereotype, etc), and the negatives (infidelity/promiscuity, shallowness, etc). I feel that QAF1 fundamentally changed both the perceptions of the audience, and the boundaries of the possible for writers and film-makers ... in a way which puts it up among the legendary great TV like "Cathy Come Home" in the 1960s.
So, in the last five years (ie post-QAF1), eh?
"The Archers" (longrunning radio serial of "everyday country folk") is an excellent example: the gay couple on ten years ago were rather camp and unstable (one was an interior decorator type), the current couple are a farmer and a chef, and I find the relationship realistic and treated in the same way as any of the straight couples. But that is radio, so probably outside your remit.
If you cover TV, you almost certainly have to make major reference to "Little Britain" - which I find unwatchable, but there's no doubt it has shoved a bunch of attitudes and catchphrases into both the gay and straight communities. Personally, I don't think it's been at all liberating ... but opinions vary, and my own opinion is just based on the catchphrases & stuff that I hear around me (eg "only gay in the village").
My own movie-watching is so eccentric (film festivals and gay movies on DVD, mainly)that I'm probably no help on that - but Warren C. E. Austin posted here a truly wonderful list of "Movies featuring a Gay-themes as one of it's elements" on Feb 3rd 2006 that might be a helpful starting point (I seem to have neglected to have thanked him at the time, but it's a list (with the foillowups from Marc and others) I refer to quite often: thanks, Warren).
One "theme" that does seem to recur a lot - but that may just be because it touches something inside me so I'm more likely to respond - is that of exploitative and mutually exploitative relationships. I'm thinking of movies like L.I.E. and Twist (2003) in particular. There seems to be a bit of an impression that gay guys tend to be a bit fucked up, but that if we get into relationships where we can support each others vulnerabilities there is still hope for us. I suspect this is true ... but I also suspect that exactly the same applies to straight people, but that it's a less acceptable message for a movie to put across!
Have a lot of fun with your dissertation - if you get happy with the result I'd love to see a copy of it eventually.
NW
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Go out and find a copy of a book entitled "the bent lens" 2nd edition by Lisa Daniel and Claire Jackson, published by Alison books, Los Angelas, Ca.
It catalogs just about every gay related film ever made.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Kevy and I would like to read it as well.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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This may be outside your time limit, but 'Byker Grove' had a number of episodes where Noddy unrealistically turned gay, attempted a kiss and became a trainee youth worker before being written out of the soap.
I think this was an attempt at propaganda, possibly a minor rebellion against Section 28, definitely social engineering.
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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Hey David ~
That sounds like a great idea! I'll be interested to see the differences you find between British and US media.
I don't know whether this show plays in England or not, but it's really popular over here with teens. DeGrassi: The Next Generation. It's a Canadian-made show that started back in the 80s with DeGrassi Junior High and then evolved into DeGrassi High in the 90's.
The really interesting part about all this is that some of the actors who started out on the junior high show and went on to high school show are now playing parents in the new show. There is good continuity.
The original shows weren't as good with handling any gay situations, but the newer shows have Marco and Dylan and several lesbian themes going and generally handle things with sensitivity. It plays on cable on the Noggin channel on the-n after 6 PM.
Here's a good site to find out more about DeGrassi and gay themed movies and tv shows (or at least shows with gay characters):
http://www.afterelton.com/TV/2006/4/degrassi.html ~ for DeGrassi
And, of course, there was Six Feet Under.
I'll look around and get back to you.
{{hugs}}
Jamie
"You have your way. I have my way. As far as the right way, the correct way, and the only way - it doesn't exist."
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Thanks for recommending that book Marc - I hadn't previously heard of it, but having checked it out I've just ordered a copy from Amazon.
cheers
NW
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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Thanks to everyone who replied. I've certainly got some things to think about now. I will try and gain access to as many of those titles as possible. Queer as Folk, I am pleased to note, seems to be in the university library.
One thing I am particularly interested in -- though I have a feeling that if I don't keep it in check, it may bias my research -- is considering how the reaction to gay issues filters through to programmes which are not aimed or marketed in any way to gay people. Does it affect the attitudes of the characters towards life in general (e.g. to divorce, marriage, less traditional ways of living)? Does a homophobic or homophilic director project his own thoughts onto his work?
I'm not sure how clear I'm being, so I'll give an example: Eastenders. I'm afraid I only ever watch it very occasionally, but I watch other soaps still less, so it'll have to do. This is a mainstream British soap opera, set in the East End of London (supposedly). I haven't seen the full canon, but in recent years I can think of only two gay characters:
Derek, Pauline Fowler's friend -- pretty elderly, a weak character (no proper storylines), eventually written out: not threatening at all.
Sonia, a formerly straight girl who seems to have "turned gay" in recent months.
I'd find fault with both of these. In Derek's case, the fact was that he was not a very interesting character -- in fact, he seemed to me to be there to act as a sort of "token gay". He was a harmless old man -- in other words, he did not threaten a conservative audience's perception of the world. Then Sonia -- well, I haven't been watching that storyline, but it seems very improbable to me that that would "just happen". Yes, we all know that people hide these things, but they remain true to themselves and their character, don't they (in the vast majority of circumstances)? I'm wondering whether the explanation for her sudden change is that someone at the BBC thought "Wouldn't it be a good idea if we had a new gay character? In fact, let's dispense with all the character-building and turn someone gay!" This shows complete disregard for the fact that it doesn't happen that way in real life. I don't believe that anyone who was really gay would think it worked like that.
So -- my questions are: are the gay characters on Eastenders carefully co-ordinated not to offend "middle England"? Was it totally unconscious? Did the writers simply not think it was an important enough issue? Is being gay an "old story" -- once it's been covered once, there's nothing more to say? (That would certainly be a form of discrimination -- the straight people seem to get plenty of differing stories, and most of them are irrelevant to their sexuality.) Was it even a directive from the producers or the people in charge of the BBC -- "audiences won't want to see gay relationships of that nature"? (I'm sure if it was the latter, no-one would own up to it -- but that doesn't prevent it from being possible.)
Am I being naive, and seeing a bias when actually there isn't one?
David
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I have a worrying feeling that if I can write 1000 words (the number my two posts make up so far) just outlining the problem, there is no way I will be able to condense the entire subject into 10,000!
I wonder if it makes it harder or easier to consider just one programme or film. I don't think I could write it on Eastenders, though -- well, I could, but I'd never be able to hold my head high and tell anyone what I wrote my dissertation on!
The newspapers have the attraction that they aren't as carefully monitored as British television, and they can get away with printing the most horrible rubbish provided they mark it as opinion rather than fact. Hmm.
David
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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The original, gay Eastenders theme ws not designed to keep middle England safe. It was 20 or so years ago and "was shocking".
Eastenders has always been dismal and downbeat, but this was an initially upbeat line. Also one of the two lovers was several years older than the other, who appeared to be a teenager.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I have never seen East Enders.... I don't have but the most basic cable plan..... only 12 channels....
I do however understand the principle of what you are asking/saying.
First.... TV.... A genre that is supported by sponsorship... i.e. Ads and such is generaly at the mercy of the sponsors and their ethics.
A story for the cinema however can be more expanded in its portrail of gay characters......... creative license and less people to answer to so to speak.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Hi Jamie,
I don't think I'll actually have time to consider the differences between American and British programmes -- simply to consider each on its own merits. It's such a large subject that I may have to restrict my research to only one or two programmes or films.
Thank you, though -- I will keep a look out for Degrassi. To be honest, I'd never heard of it before (though it does sound worth watching from what I've seen of it). Unfortunately we only have British free-to-air terrestrial television, and I'm pretty sure I've never seen anything with that name in the schedules.
Best wishes,
David
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Eastenders is made by the BBC, so is not dependent on advertising.
Supposedly the BBC does what is in the public interest, not what brings in revenue. BBC One (where Eastenders lurks) is admittedly pretty mainstream, but other channels are for more specialised interests and are often very interesting and thought-provoking.
The British film industry is not in a very wonderful state at the moment -- there is no money -- and in the UK, there is an awful lot of crossover of talent because it's so difficult to make a living otherwise. It may not be possible to consider one without the other.
David
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I will get QaF out of the library so I can actually comment on it. I'm amazed I've never got round to it so far.
The Archers... hmm, I hadn't thought of that.
Little Britain... no way. I agree with you -- I should probably comment on it -- but it is just so awful and juvenile and repetitive I can't bear to watch it!
I've seen L.I.E. and I'll look out for Twist, but they aren't British, so I don't think I will have time to cover them (much as I'd like to).
Thank you very much, NW.
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Thank you, Marc. I have ordered it.
David
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Hand-in date is a year from now, so I'm afraid it'll be a long time coming! But (assuming I'm actually allowed to write it), I'll certainly post it, or a link to it, here.
Best wishes,
David
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Interestingly, Queer as Folk appeared here on Channel 4, a channel supported by advertising. It was not an immediately obvious generator of advertising revenue, sincxe it was very much an expose of the "gay Scene" in Canal Streent in Manchester.
It pulled no punches sexually, portraying "male only" rimming for the first time, and dealing with powerful penetrative anal sex with one participant arguably below the age of consent here.
Not many years ago Mary Whitehouse http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Whitehouse woudl have sought to drive it off the screen (with commensurate increase of advertising revenue.
Those who advertised during show were normal brands with normal interest for all community sections.
One thing that might be approriate, Deej, is a sub-dissertation on the advertisers who took time during the shows.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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David
you raise a whole host of interesting questions!
Firstly, "considering how the reaction to gay issues filters through to programmes which are not aimed or marketed in any way to gay people." . the best example of this that I can think of is all the low-budget daytime & early eveniung programmes: things like the assorted property / DIY / quiz shows ("Location, Location" etc). Most of these now seem to have same-sex couples on as a matter of course: thre just is no big deal about it. The only cincession to bigots is that (in property programmes) shots of bedrooms which might make it explicit that guys are sleeping together sem to be a bit rarer than the equivalent where straight couples are the subject of the programme. This is a really big change that has crept in over the past few years.
secondly, as regrds 'stenders, I don't think this is really about gay issues: I think that soaps tend to have occasional sensationalist storylines that are unrelated to real life, and the reality of Sonia's apparent gay conversion is no more meaningful than the notorious season eight of "Dallas" which turned out all to have been a dream! I don't follow 'stenders, but I do know that there have been storylines about homophobia and stuff. In fact, I think that "offending middle england" is probably rather good for ratings, if vit isn't overindulged in ... my guess is that you may be being over-sensitive here.
Prsonally, I think that the bias that still exiusts is more liukely to be found in news, cheapo "documentaries" and current affairs programmes: the over-careful use of 'homosexual' vin terms of slight distaste is all too common on reports about (for example) the supression of "Gay Pride" marches in new EU countries. And, of course, cheapo documentaries like the recent "Perfect Penis" ... somehow, those who have the most extreme plastic surgery turned out to be gay men (although that probably reflects reality, it still does not leave a good overall inmpression of us).
In short, normal gay men are usually a non-story: in most contexts we just don't reguster on the radar unless we ram our sexuality down people's throats: I just keep myself happy by reminding myself that a percentage (6% or vwhatever) of those whose sexuality is not made explicit in any prgrqmme can be assumed to b gay!
Aplogies for crappy typing - basically bedbvound with the laptop today and typing lying more-or-less flat on my back with the laptop resting on my chest is not one of my skills!
NW
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Ah Little Britain. Surely it is irony, more than a portrayal of gay people? And not just Daffydd (sp) but also the Prime minister's PA!
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Irony ceases to irony when it is pounded into you again and again and again and again.
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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Deeej, I suspect that your choice of dissertation topic may leave you with quite a few mountains to climb, especially if you hope to come up with any sort of 'original' conclusion. The problem, as I see it, is that there have been few, if any, 'watershed' moments in the portrayal of gays on UK television over the last five years.
NW is absolutely right when he identifies QAF as the last significant watershed, and that's outside of your timeframe. Since QAF, little has changed. There have been lots of gay characters in lots of different genres, some stereotyped and some very sympathetically portrayed - but nothing (so far as I am aware) that you could latch on to as being in any way groundbreaking. One particularly difficult hurdle would be to identify (and having identified, to find a way to watch) the programmes in which gay themes have appeared. Many gay portrayals occur in episodes of series which have no gay 'flag' to call your attention to them. I'm gay, and I take an interest in these things, but although I can recollect a few gay plot lines within your time frame, I'm damned if I can remember in which series they occurred. The best clue I can offer is that I'm particularly fond of crime dramas as a means of relaxation!
If you decide to go ahead, then I'll support you in any way I can. I'll report anything I see and anything which emerges from the mists of my memory! However, I hope you won't regard it as patronising if I make a couple of suggestions about areas of which I have little knowledge but about which I would love to know more.
First of these would be to analyse the portrayal of gay characters in television shows aimed at adolescents. Nigel has already mentioned 'Byker Grove' (btw, did you know that Byker Grove is actually a pub called 'The Mitre', and it's in the Newcastle suburb of Benwell, not Byker?). The 'De Grassi' show mentioned by Grasshopper seems not unlike 'Grange Hill'. I don't watch it (because I don't have the opportunity, not because I don't want to!) but I'm pretty sure it must have covered gay issues in its long run.
The second (which may well have been done before) would be to compare the influence of advertising and sponsorship upon the portrayal of gays in US and UK television. There are significant differences. Most obviously, our primary broadcaster, the BBC, is not dependent upon advertising revenue but, equally significantly, the general principles under which the main competitors - ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5 - operate precludes direct interference by advertisers in the content of programmes. The advertising is (OK, this is a gross oversimplification!) sold on a basis of projected audience rather than programme content.
Fascinating stuff, though - I wish you well!
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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I apologise for hijacking David's thread, but what I want to say really does not deserve a thread of its own and it only ocurred to me because of David's question. I wish I could help you, David, and I certainly wish you every success in writing your thesis. As an ex-pat Brit it was fascinating to learn that Coronation Street and The Archers are still running. Ye gods and little fishes! Dan and Doris must be over a hundred years old by now!
It seems to me that what the media do with homosexuality varies from decade to decade and from country to country. But two movies made in Israel are different (I think) in that they introduce homosexuality into the nation's holy of holies. Eytan Fox has, so far, produced two movies which have been a great success. The first, "Yossi and Jagger" was about homosexuality in - horror of horrors! - the Israeli army. Two officers in a remote unit on the Lebanese border are in love etc etc. It started life as a TV movie which then moved onto the 'silver screen'. In my opinion it was very well done. It certainly started turning people's minds around.
His next film was "Walking on Water". This sees a Mossad agent (jeeeesh!), who is chasing a Nazi war criminal, and comes across the man's grandson who is gay...
The army, the Mossad ... what next?
Imagine a movie in which the British monarch or PM or Archbishop are involved in a gay relationship. Or imagine a movie in which the American first lady is a lesbian...
David, please forgive me for hijacking your thread.
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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For those who recognise it, yes. For those who do not the very pounding is ironic.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Hollyoaks has at the very least some ambiguous characters in it. My son watches it at times (do not read anything into that or he will have to kill you!) and I'm sure he mentioned gay characters.
Regrettably I don't think they are ever the cute ones. So that makes it just like real life, present company excepted!
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Thanks for everyone's responses to this thread.
This is from Marc's "what's on your desk?" thread, but it's not really relevant, so I've copied it here instead.
I'm increasing my time frame to include QaF, as it's pretty significant, and I enjoyed watching it. (The first series -- I haven't seen the second yet, though I understand it's not as good.)
The following are books I've got out of the library and plan to have a look through in the coming weeks. Not all are totally relevant, but they seemed interesting when I was looking in the relevant section in the library.
Does anyone know of any that are academic and vaguely relevant to homosexuality on British television? Marc, I've ordered "The Bent Lens", though it seems to be taking an awfully long time to arrive -- Amazon are now quoting 4-6 weeks. I've ordered from somewhere else now.
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Dyer, Richard. The matter of images: essays on representations
Dyer, Richard. The culture of queers
Out in culture: gay, lesbian, and queer essays on popular culture
Sanderson, Terry. Mediawatch : the treatment of male and female homosexuality in the British media
Sinfield, Alan. Gay and after.
Sinfield, Alan. Out on stage : lesbian and gay theatre in the twentieth century
These all as starting points for my dissertation proposal, which will run on something like the following lines:
"A critical examination of depictions of homosexuality in recent British television and film drama"
(They've asked me not to cover newspapers, as the relevant tutor is not familiar with print media.)
Incidentally, my parents are rather upset about my choice of dissertation. It seems they have no objection to my sexuality, provided
i. I make no reference to boyfriends or acquiring boyfriends (quite easy as I haven't had any yet)
ii. that I don't make any reference to the subject, either academically or socially
iii. that I pretend that there's an equal chance that I'll settle down with a woman (there's a small chance, but not, probably, an equal one)
iv. that I don't mind that they have dark conversations on the subject when I'm not in the room, and supposedly can't hear them
Their main criticism seems to be that I find the whole thing a colossal joke (which I don't) -- I'm obviously writing this essay to annoy them. Also that this will taint my career, because I'll be blacklisted as soon as all prospective employers realise what I wrote my undergraduate (undergraduate!) dissertation on.
Not a good afternoon.
David
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Zambezi
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Toe is in the water |
Location: Various (!)
Registered: January 2004
Messages: 40
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Have you thought about including the TV adaptation of In the Line of Beauty which is currently running? There should be plenty of contemporary material knocking around about that.
If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving isn't for you.
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Yup, I've watched that (the first episode, anyway) and I'm planning on using it in my dissertation. I'll also read the book.
Thanks!
David
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Sounds Interesting 
