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A few weeks ago we read here how Marc and Kevy were let down by someone who was supposed to be a friend. (I hope a solution is working out for them.) This morning I received an e-mail from a good friend which I would like to share with you: "frustration and anger when shared are doubled". Of course, I have removed all possible indication of identities. This is what my friend wrote:
Today was one of the most difficult days I have had in many years. Some of you may remember that I have been helping a 22 year old young man from X who has suffered from depression, prescription drug abuse, and scorn from his family for being gay. His suicide attempts have been very real. After prayers from many of us, he more or less pulled through his last overdose, coming out of a coma of nearly two weeks.
This past Sunday night Y called to ask if he could come over to my house to talk. I told him that he was always welcome. As the hour became late he asked if he could stay over. I agreed, contingent upon his informing his parents. He spent the night on my couch. In the morning (Monday) I got up and went to work. I left a set of keys so that he could leave when he was ready.
I keep a large sum ($6,000) of cash in a place that one would have to spend hours to find. This is money that I have earned over the years and have put aside in the event that I, or someone I cared for, had a real crisis. It may be stupid, but I am sure many of you keep some cash in the house. On Sunday morning I took $500 from the cash to help pay down my bank overdraft. So I knew exactly how much I had. This morning (Wednesday), I decided to take another $500 as my overdraft was still too large. To my shock I discovered that $5,000 was missing. Nobody, other than Y, had been in my home.
I felt betrayed. This was most of my life savings (pension aside). I have spent many hours at Y's hospital bedside. I have paid for much of his medical expenses when his insurance fell short. I have given of my heart, spirit, and wallet.
I did not know what to do. I certainly wanted my money back. I also knew that if the police were to arrest him he would, quite likely, try to kill himself. I also knew that if they did not arrest him, but instead, called to ask him to come in for an investigation, he would run away (with the money) and possibly kill himself. I called his one "sane" friend and his parents. Both urged me to file a complaint with the police. He has scorned family, friends, and doctors, who have tried to help. Perhaps this form of tough love would shock him.
I was not convinced. I asked that the parents call the district psychiatrist to see that, if arrested, he would be placed under a suicide watch. This was arranged. Or so I thought. At the last minute the police told me that they were not social workers and such a request would take days to process. I told the parents of Y that I could not take responsibility for a possible suicide. I was prepared to file the complaint only if they asked me to do so since now there were fewer guarantees of safety. They asked that I go forward. Y's father accompanied me to the police station.
His parents confronted him and Y, 21 years old, who admitted to stealing the money. He has spent about half of it. The remainder was be returned to me.
This evening,after filing the complaint, I went to visit Y to let him know that I was deeply hurt but this whole matter was not reason to harm himself. A sort of "hate the sin, love the sinner" talk. He told me that he was certain that I was angry and hurt - but he was unrepentant. He explained that he "needed the money" and when push comes to shove, "we all look out for number one". (He spent the money on nonsense).
On the more selfish side (or perhaps it is not so much selfish as it is natural and normal) I am feeling very down about my financial loss. I am also feeling the betrayal and the anger.
My primary concern remains, through all of this, that Y gets well.
This may be a case of what happens when we do not set appropriate limits. But I often get my hands dirty. The city social workers know that I can be called if someone needs a place to crash for the night. I will not allow anyone under the age of eighteen to stay here lest there be any thoughts of impropriety. Being a single male, I do not host kids for the weekend unless they are from families with whom I am friendly. Such are the times.
But I did open my home, heart, and wallet to Y. I have paid a steep price.
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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All I can say, here, is that one rotten apple need not spoil the whole barrel.
I hope your friend finds it in his heart to continue doing what he does so well. But this time with the money in a bank.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I feel for your friend and I think it's enormously to his credit that he does not demand retribution. It is, however, perfectly normal for him to feel upset and betrayed, not selfish. It is actions that are selfish, not thoughts. (In my opinion, at least.)
I'm a bit baffled, though -- why would someone keep that quantity of cash in his home? Is there something about (?American) banks that makes it standard practice?
David
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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I acknowledge that the facts may coloured by the location, and we don't know where that is. Although the amounts were quoted in dollars, it need not necessarily be the USA, or indeed a country which uses dollar currency.
Firstly, the concept of keeping money in the house. In the UK, it was commonplace in the 19th and early 20th century, but as trust in banks has increased so the practice has declined. Nowadays, with 24/7 access through ATMs, few keep a cash hoard for that reason. Those who do keep large sums of cash at home are usually seeking to conceal the money from the eyes of the Inland Revenue. In the main, such hoarders are small businessmen; employees have less opportunity to receive cash without a tax deduction at source, and larger businessmen can afford to engage in rather more refined tax avoidance schemes. I am not suggesting that JFR's friend is a tax avoider, but assuming that he is not I think his actions have been unwise in the extreme. Everyone THINKS that their hiding place is secure, but the truth is that most are fairly predictable. So if any readers of this forum are sitting on a lawfully-accumulated cash hoard, get rid of it now! Though the rates of interest may be modest, there are plenty of rock-solid investment accounts available. If banks are still not trusted, there are Government Securities, or the money can be spread across several banks to minimise risk. Practising followers of Islam and forbidden to pay or receive interest, but UK banks offer sharia-compliant accounts generating capital bonuses rather than interest and presumably similar accounts are available elsewhere. In short, EVERYONE would be better off (quite literally) with cash in the bank rather than cash at home, so roll back the carpet and lift the loose floorboard / empty the tea-caddy at the back of the cupboard (closet) / remove the plastic container from the water-cistern or do whatever else is necessary, and take your cash to the bank NOW. In the case of JFR's friend, he was taking cash to the bank to reduce his overdraft, which I find still more inexplicable. Overdrafts cost money!
Moving on to the offender, 'Y', the cameo set out in JFR's post is necessarily brief, and there may well be much more to the tale than meets the eye. But from what we are told, 'Y' seems to be amoral than immoral - unhappily, a characteristic which seems to be on the increase. I stress again that I accept that I don't know the whole story, and we are not told how many suicide attempts 'Y' has made - but if there have been three or more, all 'unsuccessful', JFR's friend should consult the relevant psychiatric literature. Multiple unsuccessful attempts are often an indication that the individual concerned is seeking attention (not necessarily help) rather than making a genuine attempt to end his or her life. The fact that one or more attempts may have come close to success may indicate nothing more than an error of judgement on 'Y's part.
Certainly his lack of contrition, coupled with the information that he has scorned the help offered by family, friends and doctors, and the reference to one 'sane' friend, implying that 'Y' has a number of less savoury friends, would suggest that 'Y' is a schemer and a manipulator.
There are occasions when 'caring' of one sort or another can reap hugely satisfying rewards. There are also occasions when it becomes appropriate to say 'enough is enough'. JFR's friend seems to be a thoroughly decent guy - apart from his unwise habit of keeping cash in the house - and he may feel that he should persevere with 'Y'. I doubt whether this would be the right course - I suspect that he will find himself manipulated yet again, albeit in other ways. Perhaps he might use an expression of intent to withdraw as an incentive to 'Y' to accept formal medical help, but if that fails I'd say he certainly SHOULD withdraw.
JFR's friend has a great deal to offer but, as I have argued several times before, the ultimate morality is to seek the greatest good of the greatest number. He should channel his efforts towards those he has a better prospect of helping.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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After reading this thread, the old saying comes to mind,
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
My advise to the friend would be "Take care of yourself now, and be safe."
JC
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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A theif is a theif is a theif......
The boy should be thrown under the prison.
It all just goes to prove that no good turn goes unpunished.
If JFR's friend has any sense he will lock his doors (after replacing the locks) and close the hotel.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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My guess, Cossie, is that your response is very perceptive. I am seriously considering whether or not to forward to him what you have written. I probably won't, because it will create too many questions. But who knows?
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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I found myself in a similar situation as JFR's friend. I am used to extending help to anyone I might see is in need and I do use some precautions. I had thought the person that was renting from me for a short time could be trusted enough for me to be away a couple of days. When I returned I was missing some money; actually most of what he had paid me a few days before and really before I had a chance to confront him about it he had left to return to home in another state. I was missing about $200 at that point.
I saw a notice that FedEx had not been able to leave a package at my house as a signature was required and I was not home at the time. This package, when I went to retrieve it, was actually $900 in gift cards that had been charged to my account at Target. I figure that he used a password finder to get into my account on my computer while I was either sleeping or away that day. I was very disappointed of course and have not seen or heard from him again. I still think I could contact him but he knows what he did and will probably not wish to have me talk with him at all. I got the gift cards and made sure nothing else was going on and took some precautions with my other accounts and I have had no further problems.
I would help someone again in spite of this, but I would probably be a bit more careful. It is sad when someone you are doing your best to help will take advantage and steal from you. Luckily I didnt lose much like JFR's friend, but it hurt my feelings even more. Still, I will refuse to think the worst of someone until they prove to me that I should.
Ken
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I've thought rather hard before posting to this thread, and I don't want to give anyone the idea that I in any way approve of this kind of abuse of trust.
HOWEVER
This is a bit close to the bone for me. I grew up with a physically, emotionally, and verbally abusive father. He claimed to love me, and in public was a model father, but it was - or appeared to me to be - all a sham. After he left my mother, I went looking for a father substitute, and ended up in what I now realise to have been a sexually abusive relationship with an older guy. This left me with considerable difficulty in ever trusting any man ever again (were it not for absolute and unconditional love from my grandmother, I would probably have ended up unable to love or trust anyone at all).
So, when I need support, there is something in me that doesn't feel able to just ask for it. I need to have love demonstrated. And - through my teens and early twenties - the only way I could ask for this was to do something that was an abuse of trust, to metaphorically smack anyone who claimed to love me in the face, to "make" them prove that they did "really" love me despite everything. This drove away just about everyone except for a circle of degenerate druggie friends who I knew would never reject me - even if this was because they didn't give that much of a fuck about *anything*.
Thank God (and the love of a good man) I got a better grip on this in my mid twenties, and have learnt ways of asking for explicit demonstrations of love and support that are less destructive - and I've recently realised that much of my fathers abuse of me as a kid may have stemmed from the same roots of "if I abuse you will you still love me?".
So, while such abuses of trust as JFR's friend and electroken have experienced are undoubtedly both wrong and wicked, my own experience really does say if in such cases that it is possible to "love the sinner but hate the sin", and to show it, it may go a long way to helping break a cycle of abuse that could otherwise perpetuate indefinitely. The trick is, of course, to find ways of doing so that don't place oneself at undue risk (yes - I've been on the 'helping' side too, and been taken for a ride) ... and the knowledge that the person who has fucked up ones faith in them may be so ashamed that they are unable to maintain contact (enough for one to show that they are - still & despite everything - loveable) means that it may take an effort to find them to demonstrate this.
So yes, what happened to JFR's friend and electroken is indeed "wicked ingratitude". But, where I stand, looking back thirty years, I can so very much understand it ... my sympathy for those who were taken advantage of, but also for those who were in a place in life where they they took advantage. In my way, I have been there (and I'm not proud of it).
I'm sure others will have strong feelings and disagree with this - if you do, please be gentle, as this is (as probably shows) still one of my very fragile areas, and writing this has brought back some memories that I normally keep pretty firmly shut away.
NW
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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NW, I have found this response exremely moving. Thank you for having the courage and the heart to post it. I say to you the same as I said to Cossie further up this thread: I may show what you have written to my friend. But I am very concerned for possible implications if I do, so don't hold your breath.
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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I might add in response to what NW has written that I appealed to the person to contact me and that I would forgive what he did to me. I also did not report him to the police as I figured he had enough trouble to handle at the time. I would also give him another chance but if I did I would be a bit more watchful and careful.
I certainly understood his actions even if they were wrong and hurt me. I figure I was not hurt that bad; only some dollars. He didnt steal anything else and I have a lot he could have stolen. Also there is much more to this story than I have told you here. It did not involve me in any other way such as a sexual nature or something like that if you are curious about it. It did involve his sister and him together who did this to me and not just him alone; in fact, I think it was mainly something his sister instituted and he just went along with it.
Anyway, I mostly wanted to say something here to let NW know that I was sensitive to his feelings and can appreciate that some of the actions people take against someone who is trying to help them, is not a rational thing and is sometimes way out of their ability to think about the consequences. I hope that NW can see I felt more badly that the boy ran from me and didnt let me help him, more than I ever felt anger at him for what he did. I just figured that someone needed to care.
Ken
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electroken wrote:
>
> Anyway, I mostly wanted to say something here to let NW know that I was sensitive to his feelings and can appreciate that some of the actions people take against someone who is trying to help them, is not a rational thing and is sometimes way out of their ability to think about the consequences.
Thanks - as you say, it's often not a question of rational thought, but of deep (and at the time unconscious) feelings. There can be some pretty powerful drivers for (especially younger) people to act in such unpleasant ways (but it doesn't always mean that they are beyond hope).
>I hope that NW can see I felt more badly that the boy ran from me and didnt let me help him, more than I ever felt anger at him for what he did. I just figured that someone needed to care.
If he's anything like I was, yes, just needed someone to care, to show that they care ( love, support, value ...) repeatedly, and tested not just to the brink of destruction but possibly beyond it.
It's never a situation in which there are easy answers, nor ever any guarantees. As I said, I thought hard before posting about that part of my life, In the end, I thought that showing my history might help people who have chosen to try to help others some of the kinds of drivers and emotional need that can cause kids to so desperately strive to inspire rejection.
All credit to the people here - and elsewhere - who continue to try to help kids and others who are in such a bad place in their lives.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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