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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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This thread is a spin-off from Matt(Broadway Boy)'s plea for guidance. I think that the original thread is over-long and is wandering too far from the original topic.
Specifically, this is a response to a very recent post by Handyman, in which he suggests that gays like young boys more than str8s like young girls.
Handyman, I think you are taking a much too superficial view.
A relatively small proportion of teenage boys are certain that they are gay. That reflects two factors. Firstly, there is the peer and social pressure encouraging them to be str8 at all costs. Secondly, there is the age-old tendency to experiment with peers as a normal part of growing up. The first group embraces quite a number who ARE in fact gay but are pressured into denial. The second group allows even the most determined str8 to dabble without attracting criticism; again, some of this group will prove to be gay, but most of them will persist with denial.
In later life, a very significant number of those originally in denial will come to accept that their true orientation was towards the same sex. Those who 'played around' in their youth will have a strong nostalgia factor attracting them to males of the age at which they had their own gay liaisons. Of these, the vast majority will not seek to have any sort of relationship with young males. If no adults were involved in their own childhood activities, most gays have no urge to force themselves on other young males. Some may seek friendship with other adult gays; others will merely come to terms with themselves, will accept that they probably made the wrong choice, but will find release in reading or writing about what might have been rather than in attempting to recreate the past.
The proportion of gays who are true paedophiles is actually (Thank God!) very small. If you need evidence of this, study pornography - you can do this on the net, or by reading research reports. You will find that the number of 'boy' sites in relation to 'girl' sites is broadly in proportion to the actual number of adult gays (including those who are not practising gays) as compared with the numbers of str8s. But looking deeper will make it abundantly clear that the vast majority of 'boy' sites are 'soft-porn', and that even among those which are 'hard-porn' a sizeable majority are still boy-boy rather than man-boy. By contrast, a substantial proportion of 'girl' sites involve adults, and there is a depressingly large number of so-called 'rape sites'.
Thus, I would argue, there is ample circumstantial evidence to indicate that the attraction of gay men to boys is significantly attributable to nostalgic factors rather than to any desire to commit actual assault upon the objects of their affection. On the other hand, the evidence suggests that a dangerously large proportion of str8s really do entertain a desire to sexually assault children.
Of course, whether you find older women more attractive than older men will be heavily influenced by the path you have chosen to follow through life. If you are gay, and have chosen to 'walk the walk' - to quote one of Marc's favourite phrases - nostalgia will not play a significant part. You may well remember youthful assignations with affection, but you will be at home among other gays in your own age group.
I suppose I ought to admit how I stand. I was almost exclusively (and very actively!) gay from 12 or 13 to 26 or 27. After the break-up of a 6-year relationship I drifted away from the gay scene - probably subconsciously driven by social pressure - and I eventually married and had a family, all of whom I love unreservedly. But as my kids reached adulthood I had an irresistible urge to tell my wife about my true orientation. I won't pretend it was easy, but we resolved the matter between us, and our marriage survived. When I married, I gave a commitment, and I intend to keep that commitment; my wife has never been unfaithful to me, and I have no reason to be unfaithful to her. But I admit that my primary attraction is to those in the 12-27 age group - emphatically as a voyeur rather than a participant - though I do very much enjoy social interaction with gay guys of my own age.
In short, I feel that the whole issue is screwed and skewed by social pressure, and that glib assumptions are therefore especially dangerous.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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My what a great overview of things. I am impressed with your insights into those relationships you describe. I fall into an uncomfortable position in the group I would consider gay. I know that most pedophile type associations do occur with a man who is str8t a majority of the time. My whole time as a kid was most mixed up with me wanting to be normal and "get the girl" as they say in the cowboy pictures but finding I was strongly attracted and doing sexual things with other boys my age.
I am sure I could keep a psychologist busy for years trying to figure me out! I was 61 before I talked openly about things with anyone at all and my issues are certainly not resolved as of this time. Being 67 in few days tells me that it wont soon make any difference if I get things resolved as the life expectance of someone my age is not decades.
Too bad we dont have a good way to talk on the phone some time cossie. It would be an interesting thing to do.
Ken
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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We really come not to "gays liking boys", but males tending to prefer, but not always preferring, young mates.
Pretty much every red blooded heterosexual male is aroused by nubile and just post pubertal girls. (for some the attraction is too early, and they are pedophiles - that is a separate discussion).
The fact of the girl being just past puberty mans she is ready to mate, that she is able to mate successfully, and that she has the body strength to survive pregnancy and birth, plus the nurturing period after the birth. Males mate with females that are biologically appropriate.
This is a basic instinct that we have chosen to suppress by society's consensus.
Were this not so there would be substantially more granny porn (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_agree).
Gay men are attracted ot the male form. But all other instincts are likely to be precisley the same as for the heterosexual. Gay men are simply wired to be attracted to the equivalent male.
Now we get to the ageing part.
It would be wonderful to say that most women take care of themselves, but when I look at the fat lumpy bodies in my local town centre I canp;t agree. However, those women who stay slim also taake great care of makeup (usually) and thus imitate "just past puberty" for a long time.
Men carry the burden of testosterone. This causes head shape and thus facial changes for many years after puberty. The pretty boy is rarely the handsome man because the prettiness literally grows away. He grows out of being pretty into a more rugged form that we define as handsome, if he is lucky.
Men also seem not to take so much care of themselves, and grow plump. They also do not look after their looks with makeup. As male teenagers change into men the change is more dramatic than female teenagers into women.
At thsi point I run out of experience. My fooling around days were non existent, but the desire was for a teenager of age 13-18, and that was engrained in me. I have managed to raise the age of attraction to androgynous guys in their mid 20s. I thus understand well that, had I been actively homosexual throughout my life I would (probably) now be attracted to men of my age.
I have been attracted to one woman. I have been able to function, frictionally, with a couple of them. But I am not attracted to women as a class, at any age from 9 to 90.
Conclusion, of any?
Women keep their looks longer. Anyone attracted at all to woemn is likely to be attracted to a wider age range in women than in men for that reason only.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Cossie, as always your incisive mind cuts to the heart of the matter and you are able to explain what others might just feel or not even be conscious of.
Certainly in my case there is a yearning for lost youth - not only lost because it has passed, but also lost because I did not have the courage of my convictions to explore and exploit it when I was young, despite opportunities.
Again, as you point out, I sublimate my feelings by writing. That way I get it out of my system.
Thanks, Cossie, for that analysis.
Hugs
Nigel
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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