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pete1990
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Getting started |
Registered: July 2006
Messages: 7
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Coz I'm in trouble, or I think I am. See, I think I've been ratted out to my preacher in my church. I hate that church. You Southern Baptists have it easy. Mine's the church of christ, and it says God will hate me coz I'm a homo.
Well god won't. But the preacher will. And my family probably will. And all I was doing was trying to tell this kid I had feelings for him.
Anyway, I'm scared. I don't know what to do. I don't do suicide. That's for wimps. I don't run, but I sure do hide. Or did. And yes, I know I'm gay. Seen all the stuff about orientation and stuff changing. It hasn't changed. Isn't gonna change.
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Hi Peter! ( :
I'm sorry someone is suspecting you of being Gay that may also be mean to you.
My way was always to just hide it as much as possible & it never really got out much, tho there were rumors all around me for years. I denied it if I was questioned on it and tried to make as few waves as possible.
I assume you were telling the guy you had Gay feelings for him. Acceptance of being Gay isn't wide spead yet and sometimes we have to be tough or hide our feelings if we want to avoid conflicts.
You said, "I don't run, but I sure do hide". That's the best advice I can give for now. Just lay low, be agreeable and let it blow over.
It seems you are still young and at home with your family. So i'd say you'll just have to get along with them unless you're willing to fight & be hated.
Most advice on this forum to similar guys like you seems to say keep low until you're out on your own, then you can live you own life the way you choose.
No God doesn't hate you.
Please don't be scared. ( : i wish i could do something to make it all better quickly. :-/
Hope others chime in to help!
Teddy:-*
Life's a trip * Friends help you through * Adventure on life!
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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I think the main things you need are patience and denial.
Patience to deal with the stuff that is about to hit the fan, and denial of anything you said to your friend.
I think, quite reasonably, you have had enough of your curch. I did some reading up on it, and I know someone form it. I cna only say they have a very narrow interpretation of a deity. BUT, hang in there until you can get away and live your own life
What I don't understand is why people believe in the first place. All there is is is that book and people telling them about "stuff". the world can be explained without all this, and morality is beyond religion anyway. So what is it all for?
Ah that's a side issue. Main advice is keep safe, and date a girl. Maybe get caught kissing a couple. I did.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Peter, You know who I am if you have been lurking. Is your church the southern Assembly of the Churches of Christ? Each church Of Christ is independant but they do belong to organizations. So each church sets its own policy. It seems pretty obvious that your minister is homophobic and so is your church. thats a shame. All of my family is southern Baptist, my gratgrandfather was a Missionary Baptist and one of the founders of the Church. You talk about growing up with hell and brimstone. I dont know how old you are, you said you tried to tell the kid how you felt about him. Im 15 and ive never had the guts to tell anyone but my best bud. I know eventually its going to come out that Im gay. My moms gonna freak and all my relatives are going to freak too. I guess I would be scared too at this stage in my life since Im only 15 and under their thumb. Even if it does come out tho, I refuse to be ashamed of who I am. If they turn against you then they were never for you to begin with. If being str8t or gay determans if they love you or not, thats pretty shallow. Their love wasnt much to begin with. I refused to have anything to do with Churches. I am not going to attend a church that tells me im going to hell because of who I am. The first thing is not to be scared. fist, the boy cant prove you said that. Just deny it. that would probably end the friendshipo with the boy, but what the hey, if hes telling on you he didnt like you that much anyway. I dont know your family situation, so I cant comment. I know that when I turn 18, im outta here. In fact Im probably going to attend University in Britain and as far as Im concerned my mom and her family can kiss my butt. In going to live my life and love who I want to. I have my friends here my family and I know that I will never be alone or not have someone to go to. Im sure you will get a lot of advice and they will all have their good points. You need to consider them and decide for yourself the path to take. If you would like to talk to me my email addy is in my profile and on my posting. If you mail me I will answer. I can only promise you one thing, my support, and a shoulder to lean on. best of luck, Im sure were all here for you if you need us.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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Oh yeh Peter. How can God hate what he created. Remember, What your church says or your minister is his opinion not Gods
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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Brian, you are a breath of fresh air.  We need this stuff far more than we need to be told that "God is Love" and the other paternalistic detritus.
Lil dude, you rock!
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Teddy,
You obviously know more about American culture -- especially conservative Christian culture -- than I do, but I don't think that lying low is always the best course of action. Many of us, it is true, did not "come out" or admit our feelings out loud in any way until we were 18, 20, 30, even 50 -- but that does not mean that they are something to be ashamed of, something that should be hidden away, or, worse, repressed for the rest of our lives. It is generally a case of tact -- not mentioning our sexuality to those people who are likely to be upset, except where there is no alternative. Where the people around are prepared to accept difference, there is no reason you should not be able to let them know, provided you can trust them.
It is also quite common for people to hide their sexuality entirely until they are 18 or so. It works for some people; it doesn't work for others. It depends on the individual.
>Acceptance of being Gay isn't wide spead yet
This is not necessarily true. In many secular societies, the UK included, many parents won't jump for joy to hear that their children are gay, but otherwise they don't mind very much. I am sure this holds in at least some parts of the US as well. In my case, I didn't come out (I still haven't absolutely come out, but I have mostly) until I was 18 or so, and then only cautiously. In retrospect, I think it would have been much more beneficial if I had at least admitted my feelings to some close friends to gauge the reaction, but as I didn't, I spent a long while terrified that anyone might find out: hardly useful. Then again, I'm from the UK and not America, and it might be different there.
This post is a bit of a diversion -- I'll go back to Peter's post and post a reply directly to it now.
David
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Peter,
I'm the first to admit that I don't understand people's adherence to dogmatic religion, Christianity or otherwise, despite hundreds of rational and reasonable arguments against its opinion on irrelevant or easily disproveable issues. I don't mind if people use religion to enrich their own lives: I do object very much if they pig-headedly use it to destroy or deny other people's.
I said in my response to Handyman's post that I don't think that lying low is always the best option, as it can cause terrible internal conflict -- in my case much worse than it would have been if I had come out and admitted it to a few people early on. But I'll admit straight away that I don't have experience of your situation: I don't know what the reaction would be if your family discovered your sexuality. If the hold of a particularly fiery brand of religion is stronger than the familial ties -- and the preacher's wishes take precedence over your own -- then I suppose there is no alternative but to grin and bear it. As Brian points out, sexuality is entirely in one's head, and if the worst comes to the worst you can flatly deny it. Even so, that doesn't mean letting them break your spirit or renounce homosexuality (it doesn't work, anyway). You are entitled to hold whatever opinion you want.
I would strongly urge you -- I suspect, from your post in the Numbers thread, that you are already of this opinion -- to appreciate the Bible for what it is (a book written by men according to the dogma of the time); religion for what it is (it should be a way to make your life better, not worse) and what should not be (a way for the few to control the many); and those who preach it for what they are (sometimes enlightened, but all too often stupid men or women who are insufficiently intelligent to sort those things that are important from those that are not). Many of the messages of religion are good ones, and you can, if you wish, be a practising Christian without supporting the position of any particular church. Or an atheist, if you prefer. (I am an atheist.) No-one can force you to believe anything; and once you get to 18 you have the option of discarding everything you have ever learnt and living your life the way you want to. There is nothing shameful in doing that.
I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I hope that it is resolved without conflict. Please do stick around -- I am sure others have much greater insight than I ever will.
Best wishes,
David
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pete1990
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Getting started |
Registered: July 2006
Messages: 7
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I live in a really small town in Alabama. My church is the old hardline Cof C. I’ve always felt diff from all the other kids in town cause I’m taught not to dance or listen to rock music. We don’t have any music in church except us singing. I always wanted to be like the other kids in town and go to their youth group stuff but I’m not allowed.
It’s hard you know listening every time to how everyone is wrong except us.How no one is going to heaven except us. I don’t want to go to that heaven. I’m 16 and Ive got a lot of time left to be here. I think if the preacher tells my parents I will be withdrawn from. That means no one will talk to me til I go up front and repent my sins. I’ve seen people have to do this. It’s awful. But its what I will have to do, I guess. I can lie and only one who knows is God. And he already knows all about me, right?
How come we have all this sin? God put Adam and eve in this garden and said don’t eat that big red apple. I know when someone tells you not to do something that’s what you really want to do more than anything. If your good and you try hard isn’t that enough?
I figure if I am going to hell and no one but people in the C of C are going to heaven then I’m going to hell with everyone else.
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In Christianity, Jesus died to save everyone, good person (if such a thing exists) and sinner alike. Hell exists only as a contrast to Heaven -- what we would have had to face if Jesus had not arrived on this Earth. That's how I've always understood it, anyway. Any person who tries to consign you to hell (how could he know? judge not lest ye be judged, etc.) is sadly deluded.
David
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Peter, If your going to hell then all your friends will be there. Hey Ill even be there and maybe we can hang a bit.
I dont live very far from you as the crow flies. Im well aware of how the CofC thinks and acts. Hey if the kid tells, just say hey hes mad at me and is doing this just to be mean. Now me, I just refuse to go to church. I been whipped, cussed, thrown around, yelled at by my mom and I havent gone back yet. I know how hard it is, a lot of people dont believe how bad it still is in the south Tennesse, Alabama, Georgia. Peter, hang in there, do what you have to do till you can leave and be yourself. Oh and to be safe dont give personal info out on the web. Timmy is the owner of the site and he will tell you, altho the guys you see in here are the best and would never harm you, there are lurkers that we dont know. If you want to talk personal stuff we can talk by email. The one thing you dont do is feel misserable and that no-one cares. I care and so do a lot of others in here. Ill always listen if you wanna talk, Ill alwqays help where I can. Letting it get to you is a bad thing. I know, I tried to end it twice. This place is the only reason Im still here. Hang in there and dont be scared. Its never as bad as we imagine. Im always here to listen and Im only an email away.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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I'll extend the "no personal info" message. I can say "Probably the guys in here are the best" and that they will not harm you. But I can't vouch for them unles I know them personally. And why would anyone take my word for it anyway?
Trust us all, yes. But not until we have proved worthy of it.
We had an odd character around in the past. He is currently a guest of his state. And he seemed such a nice guy.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Dear Peter,
What you are going through makes me terribly sad. I don't understand why your church and parents act this way, why they can't love you unreservedly, and it's nothing but outrageous. 'I think God is weeping!' (Bishop Desmond Tutu.)
Take care and be careful! If the worst should happen and you are withdrawn from, you still have friends here and we love you!
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pete1990
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Getting started |
Registered: July 2006
Messages: 7
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It's just so hard. See, I was raised to be whatever godly is. I've had sin drummed into me all the time. I want to believe in the good bits, but the tough bits say I'm hated. I can't be hated. It's not like I've done anything to anyone to make me a bad person.
I don't know how my family will react. They tend to be "no smoke without fire" people. But denying it seems to make the most sense. Only I doubt it will be enough. He's the same church. He was raised not to lie, too.
I don't know why they'd believe him over me. But why would he say it if it weren't true? And it is true. And I blush easy.
I'm not emailing anyone. I clear the cache on my machine. I don't think there are any tracking things on it, they aren't computer people.
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Peter,
God is the last person to hate anyone. God, if he exists, loves all people unreservedly. It's unbelievably hypocritical to expect your God to love you only and hate everyone else.
I wouldn't normally condone lying, but in this case it is seems it could well be the lesser of two evils. The other evil being the lack of acceptance of a religiously-misguided person -- something that most more liberal people would see as appalling.
On the other hand, lying is not always the best solution if you can trust someone -- someone who respects you for who you are, and places personal choice higher than their own evangelism. I don't know if that is the case here, however. Lying is nevertheless usually the safest solution.
To be honest, you don't know how a family will react until they do. It's easy to condemn other groups if you don't think there is anyone there who might be offended. It's not necessarily personal. Is there someone who is part of the family but outside it, someone who you can trust entirely, someone from an older generation who might be able to give advice and/or let you gauge what others' opinion is likely to be?
David
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Sorry Deeej but I have to side with Ted on this one. I know that in Europe and in UK it might not raise as much of a problem, but there are places in this country where it can be a living hell to be gay.
I would be very angry to have my friends, family, and preacher to be telling me I am damned and should be despised etc. It is a very real chance that this kid is in a place where that can and does happen, civil rights be damned. The US is still way behind many places in accepting someone who is gay.
I have talked at length with Uwe, my German friend of years now, and he agrees that coming out in the US is still a problem in a lot of cases, unlike what it is like in Germany.
That is my main arguement against militant type tactics by gays in the arguments over gay marriage. If they would just try to get the civil rights in full and not haggle about the name given the couples who are gay, they would eventually get more acceptance. In Germany that is the way it happened there. The rights were all granted without a lot of gays advocating getting married and now it is just sort of accepted without a big problem.
This kid is better off keeping a low profile; if it was me, I would be saying that the kid was lying about me being gay.............yeah I know, but it would tend to protect me.
Sure, this guy says he knows he is gay and I accept that, but he doesnt say he has ever done anything with anyone yet, and that should allow him some slack. Like Ted says, when he is older, he can do what it takes to live his own life, but he is at the mercy of parents who might not be so tolerant.
Ken
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Hey Brian, I can tell what you are saying comes from the heart and I dont think I put it nearly as well as you did. Hey Peter, if you read what Brian has written here, you have your answer in full.
I am sad just reading what you have written Brian and I hope that love is going to win out in your family. I really do agree with you but I think you are more Christian inside than you realize as you are willing to turn the other cheek I think. You have not given up on the idea that your family, esp your mom, will still love you in spite of everything that the church will tell them. I pray you are right and love will prevail.
Ken
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Peter, I am sure that noone preaching a message of hate is going to be welcome in heaven. It is what is in your heart and how you treat other people that is going to count the most. Dop you remember ever hearing that Christ told his deciples to pray in private? He said that those who make a big display of their faith and make gifts and pray so others can see, already have their reward. God is no dummy, believe me!
Ken
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Peter, wheather you want to email me or not doesnt mater. Its an offer of support and some help. emptying your internet logs is a good idea. dont forget to dump your history log too. Unless they know your password a Yahoo mail account is untraceable, since the email isnt kept on your machine and doesnt show up in the logs. I cant tell you whoes side they will take. first and formost you have to protect yourself. Thats why I dont dare say antying to my mom, life would be hell for me if I did. If your bud tells, then he was never your bud to begin with. Its your word against his and hes making the accusation so make him prove it. I was raised as a Southern Baptist, I was a good wonderful child untill I learned as you said, its all bullshit. The preacher wants to control your life and everybody elses and he uses your fear of God to do that. Your afraid of your preacher and he is just a man, he is not Gods right arm. You are already questioning the social part of the church, dancing and such, why not questions the rest. If God is a loving God then maybe its your church thats the hateful bitter ones.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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Ken,
As I pointed out, I was addressing Ted's points and not Peter directly. I appreciate I got a bit sidetracked -- I know Europe is not the same as the US, and that in some cases the US is very backward -- but I did post another reply in which I hopefully addressed Peter's problem specifically.
I think all the points I made still stand. If Peter lives in a hell-fire community, then possibly at least a good proportion of people there are already beyond redemption. However, I do think there is also a danger of over-estimating the danger of admitting one's feelings, and that can be very damaging in itself -- especially if one keeps them bottled up for decades because of what one has been told as a child.
David
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pete1990
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Getting started |
Registered: July 2006
Messages: 7
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Most of you are never going to get this.
parents are told they will burn in hell if they raise a sinner. If they cast the sinner out then there is the chance that they avoid hell. I don't know about other parents. I just know mine raised me this way and they were raised this way.
I'm a homosexual. I prefer gay, but I don't feel gay at all. I just feel like a faggot. Every week, just about, our preacher talks about sin and pretty much every week he fixes us with his eyes, specially the teenagers, and talks about homosexuals and sin, and how a prayerful life can keep us from sin.
I've prayed. I keep praying. But it don't work. So my parents will believe they will burn in hell unless they kick me out. I think they will anyway. I was ok until puberty hit 
Brian - you're pretty cool. I don't dare even have a yahoo account. Just in case.
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Peter,
>parents are told they will burn in hell if they raise a sinner. If they cast the sinner out then there is the chance that they avoid hell. I don't know about other parents. I just know mine raised me this way and they were raised this way.
And all over the America people are claiming that it is fundamentalist Islam that is backward and evil and it must be stopped? I simply cannot force myself to understand the logic behind the religious and legal system in your country -- why preaching hatred in the name of Christianity is considered perfectly okay. Please disregard anything I have said if it seems inappropriate for your community.
There is no such thing as "feeling" gay, incidentally. It feels normal, because it is normal. It doesn't, however, have to manifest itself in how you behave -- your sexuality is a matter for you and those people you choose to have a relationship with, and no-one else. It is usually only those people with complete and sometimes dangerous lack of insight who expect them to conform to a certain stereotype.
David
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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It can be hard just being who you are.....
I know..... I paid dearly for who I am.......
All I can offer as advice is that it can be as good as you want it to be....
but there is always some give along with the take....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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pete1990
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Getting started |
Registered: July 2006
Messages: 7
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I meant "happy" gay, not "homosexual" gay. But I know what you mean.
I guess I'll keep my head down and hope a lot. It just sucks. I never asked for this.
As you can guess I won't be even able to read anything here tomorrow.
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I wish I could do more to help..Of all the people I do understand where your coming from. My rents are the same way. Its a shame that ignorance rules in this part of the world. Try and hang in there for two more yesrs. Dude may not say anything to the preacher, but if he does then deny everything. Go thru the motions of being the good son and all that they expect from you till your free. If they do kick you out there are places you can go and be safe, and they will help you. Im just hoping that that wont happen, please keep us informed.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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Were not going anywhere Peter. when you can get back on line we will be here.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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Dear Peter,
God created you and he loves you, fully and unreservedly, for who you are, the way you are, and you are a unique and precious gem in his eyes. Whatever some preacher or elderly or your own parents may say or do to you, never believe otherwise, because that would be a lie both to you and to God!
I pray for you, too, not for you to change in any way, but for you to be carried safe and sound through this ordeal. I also pray for your parents, that they will love, cherish and respect you the way parents should always love their children.
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Peter,
You are always welcome here, and you can pick up wherever you left off, even if you can't post for days or weeks or months.
It's important to realise -- as I'm sure you do -- that there are many people (religions, too, including many versions of Christianity) to whom sexuality is simply not an issue. It sounds like it's a case of holding on until you can escape the culture you've been brought up in, if it doesn't suit you, and finding them.
It's been nice to hear from you, and hope to see you posting again soon.
David
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Peter,
Follow your instincts they are often correct. I agree with the advice of you keeping a low profile play it safe. Don’t let anyone bully or bate you into saying things that can be twisted to use against you. Make every effort to finish school. Then get out of there. Join the Navy (biased here). I know that each of us wishes that we could do something to help you. I wish you the best. We are all with you.
Gary
Navyone
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If ever there was a good reason for burning every single church to the ground that preaches this kind of rubbish, then this is it.
And when you come across anyone that says 'God hates you for what you are', just nail them to the nearest 15' stake. They might just work out what they said wrong in time.
Jesus/God doesn't hate gays, no matter what these self-opinionated 'church' ministers may tell you. It's lies. Lies they made up to control people. And it's wrong, morally wrong for them to keep telling this. They are fraudsters who frighten people into coming each week to pay their wages. These people should be outlawed, and publically exposed for what they are.
Mike.g
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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That's my only advice. Until you can get out, survival is all that matters.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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While I haven't read any of the other posts on this thread and this was posted a while back, I thought I would say that I understand where you are comeing from as I live in Oklahoma and many of my friends (including my best friend) are Church of Christ. I've been to their youth groups and gone to their churches before. I know how closeminded that church can be.
If you want to chat, drop me a line.
david
It's always the old to lead us to the war
It's always the young to fall
Now look at all we've won with the sabre and the gun
Tell me is it worth it all
~Phil Ochs "I Aint Marching Anymore"
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Re: I've lurked. Now I'm posting 
