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new_new_guy
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Getting started |
Registered: July 2006
Messages: 11
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Hi All,
I have chosen this forum to ask for advise partly because I have found relevant health / hygiene information very helpful and partly because it appears to me that the people that communicate through it will make a sincere effort to help me (i.e. think through my perspective).
Recently turned 31. I have been mostly with women, and I recently broke up from an 11-year relationship with a woman. Have also had a long standing (secret and "no-strings-attached") relationship with a man (about 10 years, too), and have enjoyed the "receiving" side of anal sex. I am now single. (Please, dont make fun of my parallel affairs... Its a problem, I know)
I have observed some contradictory, in my opinion, signals from myself: I will take notice of good looking men infrequently, flirt with men even more infrequently, and definetely not get sexually aroused from casual / social contact with a handsome man, say in a bar or in a concert etc. like I would with a beautiful woman. I will not get "started" with a man easily.
On the other hand, like I mentioned earlier, I do enjoy sex with a man (once we get going!), I enjoy caressing another man, offering oral sex and so on. Now that I am alone, I will often masturbate both ways. I have even started a sex toy collection.
Has anyone heard of this before? Am I undecided about sexual orientation? Perhaps I am not comfortable with other people yet? Or I should find a woman I can do these things with? When I say I enjoy anal sex, I mean it. But I am also sincere in saying I dont get hard-ons from cute guys in bars, so....
I recently met a man, and have spent some good time together, as friends. There is mutual interest for something more, and there definetely are some feelings involved, its not a sexual thing. A few days ago we spent the night out together, drinking, talking, dancing and so on. As we parted, we kissed and hugged on the street. I could feel him pressing against me, he was erect. But not me.
So, I am very anxious that things will progress and we will reach a point where he will think that I am not interested in him, or that something is wrong with me or with him. What's going on? Can anyone help?
PS. If this sounds stupid or crazy, please be polite...
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Hi new_new_guy,
I'll have to leave this one down to the older chaps, as I really have no idea what to suggest. I'm 22, but I'm totally inexperienced as far as relationships go. Actually, any advice people might be able to give may also be useful to me in the long run.
In the meantime the least I can do is welcome you to the board, and assure you that your anxieties don't sound at all stupid or crazy to me!
Best wishes,
David
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Were always polite dude. I really cant say I know of this off hand considering Im a virgin and my age, but ill still put my two cents worth in. It is obvious that your wife was not fullfilling something in you that you were craving. the man fullflilled that need. It is not unusual for str8t men to enjoy anal sex. Course they wont admit it but its so. What feels good to a gay man feels good to a str8t man. I guess it boils down to how do you feel about your friend? Would you be happy with him as your mate? See, I think its wrong to marry a girl then cheat on her with a guy. there is an old saying, Bi now, Gay later. Who are you going to be happiest with? If you go with a girl, give up the guys, dont wind up hurting her. course you will get stuff from the adults here, and it will all be good advice, but in the end it is up to you and what makes you feel best. what your comfortable with.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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Guess I should have left this alone too, but I couldnt resist. You know me nose in everything.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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As one of the new members to this forum myself, Let me welcome you. I have found the members to be very sincere and way high in intelligence.
Recently turned 65, I am in a 43 year relationship (married) with a women. Have also had several (secret and no strings attached) (we be in that closet oft mentioned) relationship with men.
I have to mention here that I married for love. If I had any idea of how my desires would evolve I am sure I would have considered other options. The thought of anyone marrying as a cover is repulsive to me.
Your next relationship, be it male or female and where you seek to find it is up to you.
Nothing you mention about your feelings and signals is unique to only you. Nor may I say are your sexual preferences that you mention. My motto has always been as long as the participants are in favor of it, they are of age and no animals get injured then its ok.
I am 65 and am still undecided about my sexual orientation.
When you meet someone and you both have the same feelings and desires, and he or she with a strap on, get intimate then you can decide if you wish a continuing relationship.
The only thing it will take for your relationship with this man to progress is for you to pursue it. Open up, communicate. If not this one hopefully the next one.
PS. Nothing you have written sounds stupid or crazy.
PPS, if you have a few minutes to kill wade through my profile on here, you may get a smile.
I wish you the very best.
Gary
Navyone
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Gary,
>My motto has always been as long as the participants are in favor of it, they are of age and no animals get injured then its ok.
I don't want to sound rude, and I appreciate this probably does, but does your wife mind you having extra-marital affairs, secret or otherwise?
I have to say that I don't think it's exactly a solution to bisexuality, unless you happen to be in a superlatively open and understanding marriage. I suspect that most people here won't agree with you either, I'm afraid.
David
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David,
I consider no responses’ made on this forum as rude. Your concern I assume is due to my lack of ability to express myself you took my motto to pertain to myself, when I meant it to reply to new-guy’s concerns, such as "receiving" side of anal sex.” , “started a sex toy collection” etc.
I was making an attempt at being witty, half witty anyway. As for my wife I have never felt the need or desire to broach the subject with her. I can see nothing accomplished by that other then upsetting her.
As far as a solution to bisexuality goes I know of none. In the short time I have been a member of this group I have found that no one writes anything with the hope of finding agreement amongst our members.
David you are one of the brightest men on here and I enjoy all of your contributions and responses’. I am sure that there is no doubt amongst us that you will have an extraordinary future.
I am a very fortunate man. I have been retired for over 20 years. I am quite contented and happy. Do I have fantasies? Yes, when I don’t I hope I am dead.
I have been blessed with the companionship of younger men who are attracted to older men. Socially I am generally a big hit with way older men and women, but alas I am beginning to discover that I am the way older one.
Grit your teeth and try and overlook my writing style or lack of it.
Gary
PS. David please read my home page.
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Welcome!
It sounds that you're starting from a place where you have no established relationships - the really good thing about this is that you can (if you choose) start relationships in which you are able to be honest from the start, and to let it be known that it is unlikely that any one person will completely fulfil you sexually. This may cut down the number of people who want to get into a relationship with you ... but I know that there are plenty of men (I suspect fewer women) who would not find that an issue. Your choice whether this is important to you!
Having said all of which, I admit that I personally would not any longer get into a relationship with a guy who was looking for a simultaneous relationship with a woman ... in my twenties I found myself in this position in two consecutive relationships (one of six months, one of nearly 2 years), and my experience is that sooner or later one gets called on to do the babysitting while the guy and his gal go out for an evening!
As regards not getting a hard-on when kissing a guy you find attractive - don't worry about it is my advice. Could be anything - possibly nerves? Or, just possibly, if your main interest in guys is to be a bottom for oral and anal rather than a top, getting a hard-on might not be an integral part of your reaction ... My own experience is that I very rarely got hard when being fucked - the sex act I most enjoyed - (I don't really do oral, so can't comment on that), although I did usually get hard during a snogging session.
Why not have a sensible talk to the guy you fancy, covering your sexual relations with women as well as guys, and that (if I've understood you correctly) your response to guys is essentially reactive rather than taking the initiative.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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Gary,
I enjoyed looking at your site. Thank you.
I think I perhaps could have been a little clearer myself, though it is an awkward subject and perhaps it would have been better for me not to broach it in the first place.
I am assuming that when you have had liasons with other men this has been during your marriage, and not during a period of agreed separation; and also that your wife is unaware of them. If any of these details are incorrect, then please disregard the rest of this text, and my apologies for making such a glaring error.
My main problem with extra-marital affairs is the fact that they necessarily involve concealing something from the long-term partner. Sexuality is one thing, but provided it is acknowledged or is otherwise irrelevant then it doesn't matter. What does matter is actions. I can only speak for myself -- and I wouldn't like to pretend to know anything of you, your wife or your family -- but should I one day be lucky enough to become involved in a long-term relationship with someone, I would like an understanding that we would be entirely open with each other. If one partner wanted something that could not be provided as part of the relationship, then I would hope that he or she would talk to me first. Any step then taken would be with both our consent. This would of course be reciprocal.
This would apply whether I committed to a woman or to a man, especially if it were a civil partnership or marriage. Regardless of whether I was gay or bisexual and living a straight lifestyle. Maybe I am old-fashioned in that regard.
I have no problem with fantasies, discussion of sexuality, creative writing, admission of attraction, perhaps even a little flirting, except where this leads to actions that would make the other party in a relationship unhappy. Unless you are sure that liasons with other men are okay with your wife, I would be inclined to see them as an abuse of trust.
You say,
>My motto has always been as long as the participants are in favor of it, they are of age and no animals get injured then its ok.
If one of the participants is in a committed relationship, then I think there is definitely one other person whose favour is required before it's okay.
David
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David,
You wrote:
“I am assuming that when you have had liasons with other men this has been during your marriage, and not during a period of agreed separation; and also that your wife is unaware of them. If any of these details are incorrect, then please disregard the rest of this text, and my apologies for making such a glaring error.”
You are quite correct in your assumptions.
****************
“My main problem with extra-marital affairs is the fact that they necessarily involve concealing something from the long-term partner. Sexuality is one thing, but provided it is acknowledged or is otherwise irrelevant then it doesn't matter. What does matter is actions. I can only speak for myself -- and I wouldn't like to pretend to know anything of you, your wife or your family -- but should I one day be lucky enough to become involved in a long-term relationship with someone, I would like an understanding that we would be entirely open with each other. If one partner wanted something that could not be provided as part of the relationship, then I would hope that he or she would talk to me first. Any step then taken would be with both our consent. This would of course be reciprocal.”
I agree with you 100%.
****************
"This would apply whether I committed to a woman or to a man, especially if it were a civil partnership or marriage. Regardless of whether I was gay or bisexual and living a straight lifestyle. Maybe I am old-fashioned in that regard."
I again agree with you 100%.
******************
"I have no problem with fantasies, discussion of sexuality, creative writing, admission of attraction, perhaps even a little flirting, except where this leads to actions that would make the other party in a relationship unhappy. Unless you are sure that liasons with other men are okay with your wife, I would be inclined to see them as an abuse of trust."
Without a doubt an abuse of trust amongst many other things.
****************
"You say,
>My motto has always been as long as the participants are in favor of it, they are of age and no animals get injured then its ok."
I was referring only to Sexual Acts. As I said an attempt at being witty.
***************
I appreciate your feelings and agree with them. Unfortunately I have lived most of my life with the inability to deny my urges. I always thought I would outgrow it. But I have made my bed and I am laying in it.
Please feel free to ask me anything you desire. I have learned a tremendous amount about religion from watching what you guys have said on here.
Gary
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Gary,
My apologies for prying, and thanks for clearing the situation up. I have made my own position clear, were it to affect me, but beyond that your own relationships are your own business. I hope I don't sound like a prude.
In new_new_guy's case, I would not object to any style of relationship, bisexual, gay, straight or unsure, with more than one person at a time, long-term or momentary, provided it is discussed and understood by all parties beforehand. Indeed, very open relationships may suit some people. (The only objection I have is to illicit relationships, for reasons of trust, and also because of the high probability of upsetting one or more affected parties.)
There are people here who will be able to comment on the validity of committing to a heterosexual relationship if you think you may be gay; mixed relationships; confusion over orientation; sexual attraction versus emotional attraction; and so on -- all much better than me. I think I'd better shut up now before I seriously upset someone.
David
P.S. Gary said:
>>My motto has always been as long as the participants are in favor of it, they are of age and no animals get injured then its ok.
>I was referring only to Sexual Acts. As I said an attempt at being witty.
It makes good sense, and as a rule of thumb is is useful. I took it as referring to sexual acts.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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new_new_guy wrote:
> I have chosen this forum to ask for advise partly because I have found relevant health / hygiene information very helpful and partly because it appears to me that the people that communicate through it will make a sincere effort to help me (i.e. think through my perspective).
>
We can try. The main thing you need to do is to weigh all the answers and extract rom them the things you feel most appropriate to you.
> Recently turned 31. I have been mostly with women, and I recently broke up from an 11-year relationship with a woman. Have also had a long standing (secret and "no-strings-attached") relationship with a man (about 10 years, too), and have enjoyed the "receiving" side of anal sex. I am now single. (Please, dont make fun of my parallel affairs... Its a problem, I know)
>
No need to even comment on the pralllel affairs. Those are between you and your lovers.
You have learnt to enjoy your body. Really that is all, physically
> I have observed some contradictory, in my opinion, signals from myself: I will take notice of good looking men infrequently, flirt with men even more infrequently, and definetely not get sexually aroused from casual / social contact with a handsome man, say in a bar or in a concert etc. like I would with a beautiful woman. I will not get "started" with a man easily.
Why is this aspect important to you?
>
> On the other hand, like I mentioned earlier, I do enjoy sex with a man (once we get going!), I enjoy caressing another man, offering oral sex and so on. Now that I am alone, I will often masturbate both ways. I have even started a sex toy collection.
Sex toys make up for the things we cannto have in person. So does masturbation
>
> Has anyone heard of this before? Am I undecided about sexual orientation? Perhaps I am not comfortable with other people yet? Or I should find a woman I can do these things with? When I say I enjoy anal sex, I mean it. But I am also sincere in saying I dont get hard-ons from cute guys in bars, so....
Do you get erect from cute women in bars?
>
> I recently met a man, and have spent some good time together, as friends. There is mutual interest for something more, and there definetely are some feelings involved, its not a sexual thing. A few days ago we spent the night out together, drinking, talking, dancing and so on. As we parted, we kissed and hugged on the street. I could feel him pressing against me, he was erect. But not me.
"Erect" in this situation is a micxture of hope and expectation. At the time you hugges you had neither of these. It is only now that you do.
>
> So, I am very anxious that things will progress and we will reach a point where he will think that I am not interested in him, or that something is wrong with me or with him. What's going on? Can anyone help?
At present it sounds like an intellectual relationship, not an emotional one. The issue is not "what will happen", but instead is "what you wish to happen". What do you wish to happen?
>
> PS. If this sounds stupid or crazy, please be polite...
Sounds pretty normal to me. There are questions you need to answer yourself over before you can walk ahead with confidence. Use this place to bounce ideas off for sure. And answer them for yourself aling the way.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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David,
I don’t consider your questions prying at all. I am here to learn about others and there feelings and am more then willing to share mine.
I couldn’t agree with your position more. Nor do I think it’s prudish. I also agree with your position on new-guy.
As for myself I have never dwelled on what I am. Like they say “I am what I am”. Over the past 65 years no one has ever asked me if I was gay, bi, or str8 for that matter. If ever asked my answer would have been “bent”.
As a place of safety no one should get upset at any remarks made here. As mentioned from time the absence of body language and tone of voice leaves a lot of room for misunderstanding what someone means.
Gary
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Timmy has put it fairly clearly I think, and it sounds from what you are saying that you need to do a lot of thinking here. It sounds as though you need to decide firstly whether you want a man or a woman as a partner. Is both a good idea? Certainly not for each partner as you would not be giving your 'all' to one.
Secondly what do you expect of yourself? Do you wish to initiate the lead in physical love or be led?
I think it would be a mistake to rush into another relationship other than a casual one, until you have decided what your needs are. What say you others?
Mike.g
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new_new_guy
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Getting started |
Registered: July 2006
Messages: 11
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Thanks, NW! Your post has lifted some anxiety off me, certainly regarding some "practical" issues. I have some thinking ahead of me, and I feel more relaxed and ready to do it. Thanks again...
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Thanks - I hope that you arrive at an understanding about what works *for you* (both thoughts and feelings), and that things work out OK with the guy (or someone else if that's what's on the cards).
Feeling more relaxed is a good place to start ...
NW
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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new_new_guy
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Getting started |
Registered: July 2006
Messages: 11
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Hi timmy,
Here goes:
You ask me why it is important for me to "get started" easily. Well _easily_ is not the right word, _spontaneously_ might be more appropriate. The point is, it kind of makes me self-conscious. When I am relaxed and things are progressing well, I just let myself go and get lost in the lovemaking. When I am concerned about it, I think that I have to get it going, if not for myself, at least to please my partner, and so on. Obviously these are stressful thoughts that reinforce themselves.
You ask if I get erect from cute women in bars. Yes, its happens more often.
Finally, you ask me what I would like to happen with this man. I would like to sleep with him. I think about it a lot. I dont know if our friendship would survive this, but I want to do it. Unless I get a clear signal from him that he would prefer not to do it, I will pursue it.
I have to say this about him: this man (I will call him "my boy") is gay, and is in a relationship for a few years. I have met his partner socially, and he seems like a very nice person. They are very close and discuss everything, including me. My boy has told his partner that he wants to do this (with me). His partner was not super-happy (obviously) but he said he could go ahead and try it. Basically, my boy says he wants to have "experiences". I told him "experiences" are not everything. So this complicates things further: we have people-issues, too...
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Im sorry, this is gonna sound so crude. Im gonna assume that the "boy" is considerably younger than you. If I had heard this conversation between him and his partner and him wanting to have "experiences", I would have been rolling in the floor laughing my ass off. First when I have a partner, there is NOT going to be any playing around. Im supprised his partner is still with him, or isnt waitting around the corner with a baseball bat. I can see why your wife divorced you. When you make a commitment to someone you keep it or get out of it and start a new one. What we have hear is a total disrespect for his partner and him cheating on his partner. Who do you think is the one being hurt here? I feel sorry for the partner. You cant find someone who isnt attached. Maybe im just stupid cause Im a kid, but I know one thing, cheatting is cheatting, and encouraging him to cheat on his partner is horrendous. I know you dont have to worry about what a kid thinks. But its a hell of an example you setting for us. If you think this boy needs experiences then he has you pegged. Its his excuse for cheatting on his partner to make him feel better. do you think hes going to leave his partner to be with you? Even if he does, you better have someone following him cause you dont know who else hes having "Experiences" with. If hes not loyal to his partner hes not going to be loyal to you.
right or wrong ive had my say. I know Im just a teen, but I hope and pray I dont grow up to be a cynicle uncaring bastard. No wonder the world has a dim view of us. You asked us to be gentle. well the others can, but I wont. What I said is the truth and you know it. If you think your getting any respect from this boy you are sadly mistaken.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Now you are getting closer to the thinsg you want and need. You do know we have no answers and they come from within yourself, don't you?
>
> You ask me why it is important for me to "get started" easily. Well _easily_ is not the right word, _spontaneously_ might be more appropriate. The point is, it kind of makes me self-conscious. When I am relaxed and things are progressing well, I just let myself go and get lost in the lovemaking. When I am concerned about it, I think that I have to get it going, if not for myself, at least to please my partner, and so on. Obviously these are stressful thoughts that reinforce themselves.
Spontanaeity is something we either have or do not have. It is hard to learn it. So you need to recognise that you are one who decides to act. Others make the same decision, but faster. You need to be more carefree and more "self content" I suspect.
>
> You ask if I get erect from cute women in bars. Yes, its happens more often.
This is a clue that you are probably bisexual. Gay men can get "sometimes erect" form a cute woman in a bar, whetehr they admit it or not. But you use the word "often" quite carefully.
>
> Finally, you ask me what I would like to happen with this man. I would like to sleep with him. I think about it a lot. I dont know if our friendship would survive this, but I want to do it. Unless I get a clear signal from him that he would prefer not to do it, I will pursue it.
Up to here I see no obstacles to your making love with him. The next paragraph is more challenging
>
> I have to say this about him: this man (I will call him "my boy") is gay, and is in a relationship for a few years. I have met his partner socially, and he seems like a very nice person. They are very close and discuss everything, including me. My boy has told his partner that he wants to do this (with me). His partner was not super-happy (obviously) but he said he could go ahead and try it. Basically, my boy says he wants to have "experiences". I told him "experiences" are not everything. So this complicates things further: we have people-issues, too...
I fear you may be being used, and used just for sex. Now, his relationship is absolutely not your responsibility, but you and your relationships are your responsibility. If you are content to be a "fuck buddy", then go for it. But there must be absolutely no strings. I suspect it may be a one night stand and the friendship will vanish. if yiou are prepared for that, then so be it. After all, you are both adults.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I hope your reading my post Timmy. we dont need to be encouraging him to do underhanded and hurtfull things. Im sorry if I seem harsh, you know I dont get this upset over nothing.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I understand your being upset, Brian. I can only advise people based on their own frame of reference, though. I have purposely not looked at the other partyicipants and their perspectives because I only have onformation about one person, the man I am replying to.
It's a little like reading a "first person" story. We can only see what the person tells us.
If we had all three people in the room my advice would be for each of them, together. And it woudl be to be darned sure this is what you each want and can live with. Since we only have one, and since he is capable of weighing advice and making a sound decision then he will see your concerns and see mine, and reach a conclusion.
He has to be responsible for his own actions as do the two others. I appreciate it seems hard on the chap who has given unwilling permission for a fling, but he, too, is adult and has to reach his own decisions.
I fear all three will get hurt. One is to be used, one uses, and the third watches his long term partner use someone else for sex. However we are not all monogamous. Kudos to you for being so or planning it. Not everyone is the same, though.
Does that make my advice a little easier for you to read?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I have never questioned your advice, infact you brought up a point I didnt, the he was being used. Its just me Timmy. I know there are guys who are not manogamus. I have no problem with two single men gettin git on for fun, but this isnt the case, but silly of me for feeling the way I do. As alwasy you are right and your advice good. He will have to sort this out for himself.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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Im sorry dude,just ignore me
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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Im still kinda sorry, its just that at the beginning there was just him and this other MAN. Now we find out its a BOY and he has a partner. Oh well he will do what he decides to do.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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I wouldn't agree with quite everything that Brian says, but I do have a lot of sympathy for it! However, I do understand that sexual fidelity is a deeply personal issue, and that what works for me may not be right for others.
If I understand correctly, your potential boyfriend's current relationship has not (up to this point) been an "open" one. I can understand that your potential boyfriends partner (especially if he is considerably more experienced) may feel that he has some kind of a duty (of love) to let him explore life a bit more fully: you do rather suggest that agreement to "go ahead and try it" was rather grudgingly given. A declaration of interest - I've been in this position: it was easy when the person my partner lusted for was clearly just a quick shag and it was horrible on the one (final) occasion when there was genuine emotional engagement!
Without knowing more of the other people involved,I'm afraid that the only outcomes that I can see would be bad (from your point of view, anyway). As your potential boyfriend clearly trusts his partner enough to have discussed the matter with him, likeliest is that you will be used purely as an experimental "bit on the side" for a short time, and it will be impossible to return to the current friendship when the physical stuff stops. It seems unlikely that he would leave his current partner for you - but if he did, you don't at this point seem able to offer a stable long-term gay relationship, and there's a serious risk that he could blame you for the breakup of his current LTR. In either case, someone (or more) is going to get seriously emotionally hurt.
I understand that you need to work through an understanding of your own sexuality, and that this may involve one or more relationships (consecutive or simultaneous) that are in essence experimental. And I'm sure that you can find people (of both genders) who find you desirable, and who are happy to have such relationships, and who do not have the complications of an ongoing previously-exclusive relationship ... get out there, find them, and enjoy the experimentation!
On re-reading, this is perhaps not quite as gently phrased as I'd have liked ... please don't think that I'm unsympathetic to the difficult position that you are now in, but I fear that you risk an even more difficult one. So can I say that regardless of how this pans out, whatever happens, please don't shy away from this board if you need help in working things out ... we all have different experiences and, as timmy suggests, you can take from the variety of advice and viewpoints the things you need to take, and ignore the rest!
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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Well said, timmy
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I think he is using the words "my boy" to refer to an adult. However, if I am wrong my advice will alter.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I was going on the assumption that anyone who has had a same-sex partner for several years has to be, at the very least, 18.
But, yup, Brian, there's something odd about having a fling with a young man where his partner's aware of it. If I were the partner, I'd probably be rather upset. But of course I don't know the way the relationships work. If he really doesn't mind, and isn't just resigned to it, then I don't have a problem with it. It's certainly better than him not knowing.
I'm wondering: is there any direct analogue in the heterosexual world? Might a wife permit her husband to go off and have a one night stand with another woman? Or is that something that you'll mostly only find with gay couples?
David
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Deeej wrote:
> Might a wife permit her husband to go off and have a one night stand with another woman?
>
I think I may have mentioned some time ago that when my closest female friend was engaged to a guy I really fancied, and he admitted to her that he'd had the occasional erotic dream about me, she packed him off to stay with me to explore his sexuality. We ended up in cuddles, but sex was not a great success ... in the end, she called that engagement off (and I subsequently did end up in a relationship with the guy for six months).
The next time that same female friend got engaged - to the guy she was eventually married to for 15 years - she drove up to see me, said she'd always fancied me, and (with the permission of her fiance) would like to have sex with me before she got married (despite knowing I'm gay), as she intended to be an utterly faithful wife once married. I cooperated with the inevitable ...
OK, not exactly the situation you asked about, but close enough to encourage my view that there isn't that much difference between some gay and at least some straight relationships where fidelity and experimentation are concerned ... although perhaps that is truer of us who were children in the 60s than those growing up at other times. But in both these cases all three parties were very close friends already, which undoubtedly makes a difference.
Before anyone concludes that me and my friends in the 1970s were a bunch of dropouts, I should point out that most of us now have jobs of stultifying conventional respectability ... my female friend teaches in a Public Schoool, her ex-husband edits a national magazine, and I recently retired as a local government Head of Service.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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new_new_guy
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Getting started |
Registered: July 2006
Messages: 11
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Hi All,
I have carefully read all the replies to my original and follow-up posts, and I would like to clarify a couple of points. So far the feedback has been very helpful and I would like to move further.
I am 31 years old, and have never been married. I was in a LTR with a female. I asked her to end that relationship because our lifes had drifted apart, and because I was sexually unhappy, meaning that intellectual and emotional distance translated into physical distance as well. This ended "officially" almost three months ago, although it was "ending" for some time before that, say six months before the break-up.
My "boy" is 33 years old. "Boy" is used to express affection, not literally. (A personal side note, I think I would find it hard to relate to a person that is much younger than me.) So from now on I will refer to him as my "friend" to avoid confusion. The "partner" is also in his thirties, I think not older than 34 or 35. They have been together for 8 years in total, meaning they have taken breaks from their relationship for various reasons in the past. Before that my "friend" had another long relationship, about 4 years. From what I have been told, this is my friend's entire "personal history".
Now lets jump back to the present time:
Last week I said that my friend and his partner had discussed about me and there was an (admittedly reluctant) "agreement" to this extracurricular activity my friend had in mind (that is, me).
Over the weekend, my friend and his partner were away on a trip, along with other acquaintances of ours. I got a text late on Sunday, saying that he was back, but the mood was not good and we left it at that. Then we met on Monday night and went out for a drink. Eventually we talked in private, and he told me that he and his partner had decided to separate for a while. They cancelled their vacation plan together etc. (It made an impression on me, when he said that they had a great time and that he felt a bit weird because their separation was not characterised by tension or frustration, but rather that the weekend was like a farewell...)
I wanna say this, but feel free to comment if your experience or intuition suggests otherwise: when my friend was talking about his partner and their discussions about me, I did not get the feeling that he was lying or acting. In contrast, what I received was that he was pressed by the fact that his desire was contradicting his commitment to his partner, but had decided to follow his desire because he felt that it was important for him. I felt the same on Monday night, i.e. that their separation was not an easy decision, but one they, nonetheless, made.
Anyway, time passed and the conversation moved on to lighter subjects, and... We decided to go to my place. The night we spent together was one of the best of my life. All I can say is that it surpassed my imagination by far. I felt exuberant, if not happy.
I don't know what happens next and I would appreciate any advice I receive. NW and timmy have suggested that I may be being used just for sex. I was not concerned about such a thing before reading your posts, guys, but maybe I am just naive. If it were true, ... don't wanna think about it. What say you now?
Brian1407a, I hope this clarifies a couple of things. You have strong points, but, hey, you have a clear head, too.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Think about this.....
Think about that......
But when the lights go out there is nothing quite like a good long slow solid screw......
Try and justify it all and all you have is a headache.....
Go with the flow or close the valve and sit still.....
It's up to you.....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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New Dude
That makes a lot of things clearer, but, did he break up with his partner because of you? were they having problems in their relationship befor? You said they had broke up befor but got back together, so there must be some strong feelings there. I guess my point is, how long is he going to use you befor he goes back to his old partner again. a leopard dont change his spots. I have an aunte, she left her children and husband to run off with a married man. They both got divorced and married. 10 years later dude runs off with another woman. Did my aunte honestly believe that he wouldnt run off on her like he ran out on his other wife? Dudes got a track record. I know I have old ideas and things are different. I know that there are unfaithful wives and husbands. And I know that among gays promiscuity is rampant. Im not condeming or condoning what you do. I guess my point is, tread lightly, dont rush into anything. Wait, be patient and see what he does. What sounds sincere now may not be later.
Im 15 and I have zip ezperience, in fact my parakeet has more experience than I do. I watch and listen and I see the mistakes others make. If your truely happy with him and he is with you and your willing to commet to each other and not fool around (really in love in other words) go for it. But what do I know, I do good to get laid in my dreams.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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The parameters altered and you now have a new situation. My view is that you should enjoy the present and simply see what the future brings.
Whatever it does bring it was not you who ended their relationship
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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new_new_guy
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Getting started |
Registered: July 2006
Messages: 11
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Hi Brian,
I don't think he broke up because of me.
I think he broke up because of himself.
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new_new_guy
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Getting started |
Registered: July 2006
Messages: 11
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Hi Timmy,
I don't feel guilt because they broke up.
I hope you don't mind my language for this line:
I would feel pretty awful if
these things we did together,
these things that mean a lot to me,
were just sports-fuck for him.
Other than that, I think I can handle things.
PS. I said "I think" I can handle things, right?
If its obvious that _I_should_know_better_,
let me know before it's too late!!!
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I think it is now a simple matter of each of you exploring both the intimacy of sex with each other - fun in its own right - and the intimacy of the blossoming relationship on a non sexual level.
If you are friends and lovers then it has a great chance of working.
This is, of course, nothing to do with being homo or hetero sexual. It is just(!) relationships 
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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I'd have responded a lot sooner, but for reasons explained elsewhere I've been absent for a few days.
I think that I can unreservedly endorse pretty well everything NW has said - and he's the guy with most practical experience of relationships in your age group.
I'm with Timmy much of the way, but I don't quite share his optimism for the future in the light of the available information.
Brian has, quite rightly, a strong sense of ethical behaviour, and whilst I agree that these issues become increasingly blurred with age, there's a great deal of sense in what he says.
I'd say that the first question you need to resolve for yourself is what you are looking for. I don't mean which gender, I mean what kind of relationship. It seems (and I'm not criticising you for this) that you haven't really been into long-term commitment thus far; if you had, you would not have maintained two parallel relationships. It's patently obvious that a significant percentage of the population - both str8 and gay - NEVER reaches the point where a long term commitment is sought, but an even more significant percentage does arrive at that point, and this often happens between the ages of 30 and 40.
If you are NOT looking for a long term commitment, I don't have any problems with your behaviour to date. Unless you're deliberately misleading us - and I see nothing to suggest that you are - the relationship between your 'boy' and his previous partner was, at best, insecure, and I do not think that you can be blamed for ending it. All I would ask - and ask very sincerely - is that you appreciate that some may think differently, and that you never consciously attempt to break up an otherwise successful relationship between two other people, of whatever gender.
If you ARE looking for a long term commitment, the history of your 'boy' as provided makes me doubt whether you have found it. Of course, I could be reading the situation entirely wrongly, but from what I know I would suggest that you do not set your sights too high. Which doesn't mean that I am suggesting that you shouldn't go ahead - you may well have found a short term relationship which will generate nostalgia for the rest of your life - but I AM suggesting that you tread carefully until the situation clarifies.
Oh, and to go back to your original question, I agree with Timmy that you are pretty obviously bisexual. You may even be on the gay side of the line, since your reaction to gay relationships seems to function at a deeper level than your 'wham, bang, thankyou ma'am' instant-erection reaction to cute females. Only you can know and, if you don't know yet, no amount of input from others can finally resolve that question. All I can ask is that, as you explore your sexuality, you remember that no man is an island - your actions impact upon others and, as Brian has suggested, you really do have an ethical duty to try to avoid hurting anyone with whom you form, or seek to form, any kind of sexual relationship.
I hope you find this response sufficiently fair and gentle! - I certainly don't want to hurt you!
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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new_new_guy
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Getting started |
Registered: July 2006
Messages: 11
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cossie wrote:
> I'd say that the first question you need to resolve for yourself is what you are looking for. I don't mean which gender, I mean what kind of relationship.
Well, what I honestly was thinking was that I would not pursue any relationship at all. I would possibly take a one night stand now and then, and I assumed that only girls were in the cards... Now, I am thinking that maybe I am in love with my friend. Or maybe I have discovered this very strong thing, feeling, whatever... The thing is, I find myself in a relationship (doesn't matter if its long-term, short-term, casual, serious or whatever). I feel challenged, like I am back to square one. Things feel new to me.
And if I am to explore this new sexuality (I want to), I need some framework to do it in. I mean, you can't do it in one night stands. I can't start giving myself to strangers. Maybe if you get comfortable with it, you can do it, I don't know (at the moment, I seriously doubt it).
cossie wrote:
> All I would ask - and ask very sincerely - is that you appreciate that some may think differently, and that you never consciously attempt to break up an otherwise successful relationship between two other people, of whatever gender.
What you describe is not bad, it's evil. I honestly believe that they decided this on their own, or that my friend decided this on his own. From where I am standing things happened like this: we met as friends and started having a good time, sharing common interests etc. We talked about ourselves and we gradually started to know each other. Then I realised that there was some flirting and that I enjoyed it, and started to think more and more about it etc. Eventually, half-serious and half-jokingly he asked me what's going to happen with us, and I told him it was for him to decide what he wanted from me, since he was the one with a relationship and I was cool with anything (including nothing). Later I learnt that they had discussed about me etc. The rest you know.
The only thing that is questionable here is: when someone in a relationship fancies you, do you offer yourself up for grabs, or turn the other way regardless of anything else? Case A means you may encourage the other person to make a mistake and hurt someone including yourself, or (NW-quote) become the bit-on-the-side. Case B means you may give up on something very important. Also, a lot of (if not most) people have some sort of relationship; it does not mean its forever, or that its perfect.
Please comment on this. I would appreciate some thoughts on this, I need some help with this.
What was I thinking at the time? I don't know. Probably, exactly what I said. It was his shot to call. I did not say anything about each one of them to the other. I did not demand something from my friend. To be honest, I kind of left it on luck, like tossing a coin. (Or maybe I was a coward, and did not pursue my curiosity and my desire. Maybe I would have chickened out even if he was "available"). I realised something was happening between us and inside me, and I left it up to him. If he had not made his move, nothing would have happened.
cossie wrote:
> All I can ask is that, as you explore your sexuality, you remember that no man is an island - your actions impact upon others and, as Brian has suggested, you really do have an ethical duty to try to avoid hurting anyone with whom you form, or seek to form, any kind of sexual relationship.
I would not be posting this if I had not realised. And that is why I ask for your thoughts and advise.
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I have been told more than a few times that Im a 50 year old man in a teenage body. see the question is "Do you love him"? do you miss not being around him? now the other part is "Does he love you"? You not only have to be lovers, but you have to be best friends. the difference between a best friend and a lover is a single heart beat. My suggestion, date. Take it slow and see where things go. Find out what he wants and then see if its compatable with what you want. see, I keep coming back to the same thing. Hes 33 years old, has had two long term relationships and says he needs experiance? there are just so many things you can do in bed. I think what it comes down to is how yo click out of bed.
Ah well there I go again.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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Re: Orientation issue, please advise... gently 
