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I got a mail from someone I admire more than anyone I can think of. He pointed something out to me and he was right. Im not going to let someone make me stop posting here, I would be letting them win. IM here and Im gonna post what I damn please, if it irks you, well all I can say is get over it.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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that's good Brian! I thought of responding too because some people really need & appreciate this board. it's prolly saved their lives to a large extent. I've seen no real rules except to be nice here. You & i can say or do about anything we want here. if it suits you then do it. if others cant handle it fine. If a majority agrees to stop something then that's diff.. I appreciate your posts, humor, wisdom, etc. please keep posting & helping & sharing. I wish I could be here more, answer things better, be more perfect, but we just can't please all the people all the time. They have to learn to live with us as we are.
Teddy 
Life's a trip * Friends help you through * Adventure on life!
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Aussie
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Really getting into it |
Registered: August 2006
Messages: 475
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Good on yer mate, that's bonzer
Aussie
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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You are confusing someone taking issue with the spirit of one of your posts with someone taking issue with you.....
While I admit to the former I adamantly deny the latter.....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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... since I posted on another thread twentyfour hours ago. It was never my intention to personalise the issue; I merely differed radically from Marc in my view of the function and value of this forum. However, I can't possibly accept Marc's disclaimer above.
Brian's original post was very obviously meant to be humorous, and it WAS humorous. I cannot see how it could possibly be construed otherwise.
It wasn't Brian who argued that we should feel a sense of responsibilty to keep dialogue flowing; I expressed that view in my reply to Marc's first post on the other thread.
It was therefore completely unjustified to blame Brian for the parent post. As I said above, the parent post was clearly humorous, and Brian has made similar posts before - with my entire approval and occasional encouragement, I might add! It is also naive to suggest that the reference to other similar posts, coupled with the comment about young posters, was not a personal criticism of Brian; the remarks were inevitably going to hurt him - and they very clearly did. It isn't necessary to use names - oblique but obvious criticism can be just as hurtful.
If Brian is inexperienced, then I'm all for inexperience - but I can't see why a humorous post should be indicative of inexperience. Brian has gained a great deal from our 'community', but he has undeniably contributed equally as much. His posts have, in the words of another regular poster, brought a breath of fresh air to our discussions.
I don't want to prolong this unhappy business, but I cannot let it pass without making it unequivocally clear that I do not see that Brian has said or done anything to merit any criticism whatsoever, be it express or implied.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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That is of course your opinion......
As far as posts and humor..... It obviously was not so obvious that Brian's origional post was humerous. I found it quite the opposite....
Now you know my opinion.....
As far as criticism.... Well aren't we all objects of criticism here....
You speak often about "our community".... As I stated previously... I feel that I am more apart than a part of this "community".
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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... that if you feel excluded, Marc, the exclusion in in your own mind. Review the posts over the last month or so. Several posters (myself included) have made a specific effort to include you.
You have a pretty negative attitude to life. It may well be justified by your past experiences, but most of us find that a positive attitude is much more helpful in our struggle to find ourselves.
I'm not trying to drive you away - I acknowledge that you were here before I was. I suppose that if I'm trying to convey any sort of message, it's simply that you have your human frailties, but so does everyone else - myself included. And I really do believe that the best way to help each other is to be supportive, and tolerant of each other's idiosyncracies.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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cossie wrote:
> ... that if you feel excluded, Marc, the exclusion in in your own mind. Review the posts over the last month or so. Several posters (myself included) have made a specific effort to include you.
I don't want to be included by specific effort.... When you stop to think about it.... having associates utilizing a specific effort to include a party is rather pathetic.... A person would feel better about being included as a matter of course....
>
> You have a pretty negative attitude to life. It may well be justified by your past experiences, but most of us find that a positive attitude is much more helpful in our struggle to find ourselves.
My, as you say.... "attitude to life" is what I have had to utilize for a great many years to survive. The walls I have around me are tall and thick... Do I wish things could be different? How would any sane person answer that question.... Of course I do!!! But when the walls stand for so long a time it becomes a daunting task to so much as poke a pin hole through them.... A couple of times in the not too distant past I let my guard down and reacted to something someone said in a casual conversation.... Huge mistake.... Sometimes it just might be better to leave buried things buried....
I get the impression that many here think I get some morbid satisfaction when I voice an opinion about something that bothers me.... Believe me when I say it is quite the contrary.... I agonize over contraversy.... Most of the time to the point that I can not eat or sleep and my ulcers flair to the point of spitting up blood....
>
> I'm not trying to drive you away - I acknowledge that you were here before I was. I suppose that if I'm trying to convey any sort of message, it's simply that you have your human frailties, but so does everyone else - myself included. And I really do believe that the best way to help each other is to be supportive, and tolerant of each other's idiosyncracies.
So by this you are saying that I am as valid in my opinion as any other?
Or, are you saying that I am valid in my opinion as long as I tow-the-line??
Or that I should just keep my opinions to myself???
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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.... understand your fellow men. In no way is it condescending, it's just plain old-fashioned caring.
Your opinion is as valid as any other. You don't have to toe any sort of line. Others may disagree, but that doesn't make your opinions invalid - being right isn't necessarily the prerogative of the majority. But you do need to see your posts through the eyes of others; you may not intend to be hurtful, but from time to time you are. No-one likes being hurt - YOU don't like being hurt! - and it's therefore worthwhile to think about how others will interpret your words before you press 'submit'.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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cossie wrote:
> .... understand your fellow men. In no way is it condescending, it's just plain old-fashioned caring.
I didn't say that anyone had a conscous intent to be condescending. But to come out and say that a specific effort was made sure doesnt do alot for my self asteem....
I remember some doctors telling me once that they cared about me.... They truely wanted me to "get better".... Oh well.... I guess it doesn't matter....
>
> Your opinion is as valid as any other. You don't have to toe any sort of line. Others may disagree, but that doesn't make your opinions invalid - being right isn't necessarily the prerogative of the majority. But you do need to see your posts through the eyes of others; you may not intend to be hurtful, but from time to time you are. No-one likes being hurt - YOU don't like being hurt! - and it's therefore worthwhile to think about how others will interpret your words before you press 'submit'.
Most of the time someone interprets what I write wrongly.... It is impossible to evaluate how everyone will take what I have to say....
Do I intend to be hurtful? Not a bit.... Do people often take offense at what I have to say.... More often than not....
But like you say..... my feelings of not being a part of things is in my head..... So also can the offense taken by others at what I have to say be in their head.....
I don't speak with other people and never realy get the chance to know them therefore how am I expected to know their soft spots or areas of conversation to avoid? If I am expected to "see my posts thru the eyes of others" I need to know how they see things.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Great to see you're staying, Brian. You've grown in stature for doing so.
Megahug
Nigel
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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I think that the first part of your last post illustrates what I meant by negative thinking - though I didn't use the term as a criticism of you, just as an observation. You'll have heard the old distinction between an optimist and a pessimist - an optimist would say that his beer-glass was half full; a pessimist would say it was half-empty. It illustrates how the same situation can be interpreted in a vastly different way by different individuals. That's the position regarding my comment that in recent weeks I and others had made a special effort to include you in discussions. You see this as condescension, albeit unconscious. Such a thought never entered my head. You had complained in earlier posts of feeling excluded. Though then, as now, I felt that the sense of exclusion was probably self-induced, I did consider that I might from time to time have inadvertently said something to trigger that reaction. I therefore took extra care to ensure that I would avoid that pitfall in future posts. To me, it was merely a matter of courtesy.
Turning to the concept of 'seeing something through someone else's eyes', I do understand what you are saying, and I agree that it can sometimes be very difficult. A basic rule of thumb might be to consider how you would feel if you were the recipient of the criticism, but of course different people can interpret the same words in different ways, so that rule doesn't always work. I tend to use two other checks in my own posts. First, I try to soften my language; I prefer to say something like 'I'm not sure that I can agree about such and such ...' rather that 'You're wrong about ...' or, worse still, 'That's stupid'. Secondly, I try to make clear that I am disagreeing with someone's opinion, rather than attacking the person who expressed the opinion. It works for me - most of the time! - but others may have different views. As I see it, though, the most important thing is to separate the person from his opinion. Attacking an opinion is an inevitable incident of open discussion; attacking the poster as an individual is something else entirely, and a recipe for disaster.
Anyway, I think that this particular storm has been weathered without losing anyone overboard. Can we agree on the cyber-equivalent of a handshake?
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Basically I understand what you are saying....
I think I know what I need to do....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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... I should also have said 'don't be cryptic' - it's the easiest way to be misunderstood!
You don't have to DO anything; you're a founder-member of this board, and you entitlement to be here is unassailable. All I'm trying to do is to improve the understanding between us - and I accept without reservation that that's a two-way process. OK, I'm sure that you'll understand that I'll always jump in if I think anyone is unjustifiably criticising Brian, but that doesn't mean that I don't give a damn for anyone else. I don't 'know' you very well, but I'd hate you to think that I felt any real animosity towards you. This, after all, is just an internet message board; it would be sad if we let words in the ether make us hate each other. You tend to hold the rest of us here at a distance, and from what I know of your past that's not entirely surprising - but, believe me, it doesn't mean that WE want to keep YOU at a distance.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I didn't think I was being cryptic.... I was agreeing with you....
I wish I could be more gregarious.... I wish I could be more trusting.... I wish I could be more outgoing...
Kevin tries all the time to get me to go places.... We get free tickets to theatre, invited to parties, events and the like and I can't go.... I just can not do it.... Too crowded and too many people I don't know.... I just can not deal with situations that I am not sure about or places I have never been.
I have been mostly cloistered for the better part of 25 years.... In all that time, my first real contact with anyone apart from my work was on the computer. Sometimes I wish I had never egreed to take that damn machine. Several times in recent years I have made the attempt to make friends but just like in real life I end up pushing them away or they just drift off.... Nothing new there, I could count the number of people I might have called friends on one hand even if three fingers were cut off.
I don't think you hold any animosity toward me or any one else for that matter.... I only ever hated 7 people in my lifetime and have had the pleasure of dancing on each of their graves. Three were doctors and the other four were attendants at a hospital in which I was placed.
Do I keep people at a distance? I guess so.... but old habbits are hard to break and older walls are even harder to tear down.... hell i dont even know why i go through the bother to spill out my guts here it really doesnt do alot of good and i end up so depressed i dont even want to go out the door
whatever
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Hi Marc,
I know this will be a bit off the main point here, but I want you to know something. I don't know if you actually know me from Comicality's board or just that I know of you from what I read about you when I first found this site of Tim's about 5 years ago. I want you to know that I always felt sort of like I had some special feeling for what you went thru as a kid. I could have had something like that happen to me and after I had read about what went on in your life, I was so damn grateful I never had it happen to me. I am going to email you with some details about it, but suffice it to say I have wanted to try to tell you that there are those of us out here who feel like we owe you an oppology for what happened to you at the hand of those who were so cruel to you.
I hope you can see that none of us would ever want that to happen to anyone we know and so we make an effort to help the youg guys here as much as possible. Sometimes it is but by the grace of God that we are spared some of these things and we can look back and see how truely lucky we were. I think you need a hug and not a harsh word even if you sound like you are upset or hurt by something we said. I hope you can cut us all some slack and realize that most of us 'have not walked a mile in your mocassins' as they say. You are a valuable asset to this place and I want you to know that; even if I sometimes appear to go against something you said at times. *hugs*
Ken
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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I appreciate your response and I know it wouldn't be easy to write.
I'm sorry that you felt depressed after writing it, but it WASN'T a waste of time. If we keep taking small steps towards each other, we must be getting closer - and that's got to be a good thing for both of us.
Give my regards to Kevy, and tell him to consider getting a collar and lead to drag you out for walkies! Seriously, though, I don't for a moment underestimate the difficulties you face; I just hope with all my heart that you find the strength to keep trying to come to terms with them.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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Marc, your still my friend. What i posted irked you and Im sorry, but Im going to post what I feel is funny or witty or dead serious. I probably reacted badly to what you said and probably should not have said anything. I have and always wished the best for you and Kevy. If we all try hard enough we can overcome our deamons no mater what they are.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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someone said "No man is an island unto himself". This is true becasue no mater what we do it is like a ripple in a pond and affects others around you.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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In all honesty, I try every day.... Kevy does take me out for walkies but it is in places I have built a sort of comfort zone.
It is the places that have secrets that I can not deal with.... people I don't know, seating configuration, where the exits are.... that sort of thing.... I suggested to Kevy that if he "scouts" places out for me we can then draw up a plan of escape if something goes wrong.
but I realy do try..... hard...
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Aussie
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Really getting into it |
Registered: August 2006
Messages: 475
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Hi Marc,
I am relatively new here as a poster but I hope that doesn't make my opinion any less valuable.
You say
Do I keep people at a distance? I guess so.... but old habbits are hard to break and older walls are even harder to tear down.... hell i dont even know why i go through the bother to spill out my guts here it really doesnt do alot of good and i end up so depressed i dont even want to go out the door
I think you have grown in stature in the last week just by doing that although I don't see it as spilling your guts but rather just opening that big door to let a chink of light in so others on the outside can see a little of the problems you face.
There are plenty here who will listen and give their opinion and you can add me to that list.
I know you are not keen on being told what to do or not do but try to concentrate on 'really' living the now because the past has gone and the future hasn't arrived yet.
I am trying not to make this sound like a sermon but not sure if I am succeeding. I have a similar problem to you where what I am thinking seems to change its meaning by the time I get the words out.
Anyway I hope you are able to lower the height of those walls even if only 1 brick at a time.
Good luck
Aussie
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