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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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"Please use care and charity when you discuss here, and realise that absolutes are unlikely despite your or my certainty in them."
Ring any bells?
Seen it anywhere?
Right. So it is a little familiar. "Mr Dogma needs to go to his room and think about his behaviour and how he has made his playmates feel." And frankly he can stay there until hell freees over of he does not learn to behave better.
"But who is Mr Dogma?"
if the cap fits...
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Dogma comes in many breeds.....
but I am a cat person
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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I know that it's your board, and that you can therefore do as you like, but I love this place and I have come to care deeply about several of my fellow posters.
Your 'if the cap fits' approach simply doesn't work. As a management strategy failure to properly apportion blame is identified as a cause of demotivation, reduced productivity and deterioration in staff relations. I recognise that this isn't a workplace, but the principle still holds good.
It must be patently obvious to everyone who has read the exchanges on the board over the last couple of days that responsibility for the unpleasantness rests squarely with Marc. He was gratuitously rude to Deeej, and has continued in that vein. Deeej may have reacted more strongly than you might wish, but he was severely provoked. Why should he, or any of us, be subjected to such rudeness?
It's clear from his post above that he is unabashed by your post; only a few minutes ago he was being unnecessarily unpleasant to Jason in another thread.
I know that Marc has a 'history' and that in some ways he needs this place, but his behaviour puts this place in jeopardy. I've never sought his exclusion, but it simply isn't fair to your other posters when you fail to identify him as the cause of unpleasantness. Needs impose responsibilities; I'm not suggesting that Marc - or for that matter anyone else - is not entitled to express an opinion. Neither do I suggest that he is not entitled to disagree with anyone else's opinion - mine included. But I do suggest that he has an obligation to maintain acceptable standards of common courtesy as a condition of his participation.
I would have responded by e-mail, but I know from the number of e-mails I have received over the past 24 hours that I am simply reflecting the views of a significant number of your regular posters. I hope you understand my logic; as I have observed several times before, I simply cannot abide rudeness.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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I have pondered a long time. The question I have for you is "how would you handle it differently?"
The board is a complex place. All who behave are truly welcome. Only two people have ever been excluded in all the time we have been live, and their behaviour was far worse than we have seen from anyone else.
The board is for all who need help. That has to mean all except those very few who are excluded. Each of us has a history. Each of us reacts to different stimuli in a different manner. Each of us has a different tolerance threshold. Each is barking mad in his or her own way. I know I am 
So, when a poster, new or old, by the content of the posts, appears to threaten the status quo, what should I do?
Drawing pointed attention to such things is an obvious answer, though imperfect. In many cases it does take two to continue a fight. I know, for I have fought myself in order to atempt to calm things down.
Ignoring the issue sometimes works. As long as all parties ignore the issue
Putting a generic warning sometimes works.
Allowing others to handle the person causing issues sometimes works.
Leaving a festering sore in plain sight sometimes works because people see it for what it is.
So, what should I do? What is the best route when one of us upsets or insults or attacks another of us? And is that route always the best route?
We all misbehave in one way or another. Do we single out one person's behaviour as the sole unacceptable one?
I am not asking all this naively. I'm quite happy to lend the door key of moderation to any one user who makes a good case to me to be allowed to moderate the board for a couple or more of months, because it is just plain not easy. The obvious solutions are not always the best ones, and the best ones are not always successful.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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In this particular case, where we are dealing with two regular contributors who do know the rules, it would have been better to say nothing. Their actions would have been sufficient to act as a warning to the rest of us, particularly the regulars (rather like Greek tragedy). Sometimes people just need to let off steam. An undercurrent can be poisonous. (Mixed metaphor) Then the pecking order can find its own (new) level.
We have very special people here who despite trying don't quite fit the norms. If they are assets they can be allowed their head
p r o v i d i n g it doesn't damage the board or a third party.
The anonymous general warning was pointless as we knew who the particular contributors were and the innocent don't like being tarred with the same brush.
If anything needed to be done, it could have been done by personal e-mail.
No, I am not making a bid to moderate. I appreciate what a difficult job it is that you do.
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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It is fairly clear to me that on the whole, according to what innuendo, comments and referances to back door conversations through chats and/or E-Mail that my presence and by association participation is seen as more of a detrament to this community than an asset....
One incontravertable fact is that I am who I am. Some things set me off and when it happens I effectivly have no control over the impulsivle acidic nature of my persona that manafests it's self. I, for many reasons, can not at this late stage go through the process of changing my persona to suit those not comfortable with it as it is.
Therapy is no longer an option because affordable as I have no insurance (I can not afford it) to cover it. Drugs are an option but I for several reasons prefer not to reenter that arena. Tim knows of my problems there... Actually that was how we met online....
Do I wish I could be pleasant all the time? Yes, but that, for me is just not something I can promise on an ongoing and lasting basis....
It would be foolish to hope that tender subjects would be avoided because this place is built on the discussions of just these emotional areas of human existance....
One aditional admission I feel I must make is that I for whatever reasons stay here because I need this anchor.... Without it I do not think I could cope.... Do I wish I could just pack my baggage and leave???? Yup, I do.... Because it is very hard to stay in a place when you truly know you are basically not wanted....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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I think the major thing is that the acidic episodes have become less frequent though they have become more pointed.
Could we just ask for the counting to ten (upwards!) before acid allows you to press submit?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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Nigel wrote:
> The anonymous general warning was pointless as we knew who the particular contributors were and the innocent don't like being tarred with the same brush.
Something had to appear in public, primarily because this board is for those who lurk as well as those who participate. thus, while it did not necessarily have the right effect initially it had a point
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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... nor does it figure in my list of ambitions, but I do have considerable experience of management and communication, both in my professional life and in the voluntary sphere. I don't see that the parameters are any different.
You said:
I have pondered a long time. The question I have for you is "how would you handle it differently?"
The board is a complex place. All who behave are truly welcome. Only two people have ever been excluded in all the time we have been live, and their behaviour was far worse than we have seen from anyone else.
The board is for all who need help. That has to mean all except those very few who are excluded. Each of us has a history. Each of us reacts to different stimuli in a different manner. Each of us has a different tolerance threshold. Each is barking mad in his or her own way. I know I am.
***
I'll try to answer the query in the first paragraph. I accept all that you say in the next two paragraphs, though I have regularly made the point that I am NOT arguing that Marc should be excluded; I am simply saying that he should be required to comply with the standards expected from the other posters.
You said:
So, when a poster, new or old, by the content of the posts, appears to threaten the status quo, what should I do?
Drawing pointed attention to such things is an obvious answer, though imperfect. In many cases it does take two to continue a fight. I know, for I have fought myself in order to atempt to calm things down.
***
I'm not sure what you mean by 'drawing pointed attention to such things'. I'd suggest that an appropriate reaction would be to adopt a direct and adult approach; for example 'X, your post above is gratuitously rude and does not conform to the standards we expect in this forum.' If it appears that two (or more) people share the blame equally, then all of them should be reproached. But I don't like the concept of 'it takes two to make a fight'. Sometimes it does, but often the second party reacts because he/she has been hurt by what has been said. That, I think , was certainly the situation in this instance. There's an analogy with the schoolboy who is punished for fighting when all he actually did was defend himself against bullying. It's unfair, and essentially a cop-out by the school. And, of course, the other kids know that it's unfair, and their faith in authority is subtly diminished. In the context of the forum, it may sometimes be difficult to apportion blame, but usually it's very easy to to identify the source of the problem.
You said:
Ignoring the issue sometimes works. As long as all parties ignore the issue.
***
I would argue that ignoring the issue DOESN'T work. The particular conflict may settle down but, consciously or unconsciously, the discontent festers and, sooner or later, it erupts again - and each eruption adds to the cumulative problem.
You said:
Putting a generic warning sometimes works.
***
It will work when the problem is generic - where a number of posters are collectively becoming irritable, or when the issue is between posters relatively new to the board. It has little or no effect on a poster who has been around for some time - he already knows perfectly well the standards which are expected.
You said:
Allowing others to handle the person causing issues sometimes works.
***
Sometimes, but it's not really satisfactory. I have stuck my nose into several disputes, but in general my motive is to support our younger posters (and I hope Deeej won't be offended to be included in that group!) when it's clear that they have been hurt by a post from someone who should know better. Thus, inevitably, I am 'involved'; the moderator is the only individual who can be 'detached'.
You said:
Leaving a festering sore in plain sight sometimes works because people see it for what it is.
***
It may sometimes work, but I don't think it's a good idea. I would always aim for some form of closure to a dispute.
You said:
So, what should I do? What is the best route when one of us upsets or insults or attacks another of us? And is that route always the best route?
We all misbehave in one way or another. Do we single out one person's behaviour as the sole unacceptable one?
***
I sincerely believe that direct and specific intervention will USUALLY be the best route, but of course there will be times when another approach is more appropriate. As regards the second paragraph, misbehaviour is a very wide term and I'm not at all sure of what you have in mind. This board thrives on discussion, discussion involves argument and in turn argument involves disagreement. Disagreement is not a problem, so long as contributors attack opinions, rather than the individual expressing those opinions. In the same way, I'd suggest that in general the right course would be to single out unacceptable behaviour, rather than thinking in terms of a specific individual.
You said:
I am not asking all this naively. I'm quite happy to lend the door key of moderation to any one user who makes a good case to me to be allowed to moderate the board for a couple or more of months, because it is just plain not easy. The obvious solutions are not always the best ones, and the best ones are not always successful.
***
Apart from this specific aspect, I think that your moderation is restrained and balanced, and is one of the principal reasons why the forum functions so well as a place not only of safety but of friendship - and this is achieved without pre-moderation of posts, a point Brian made a few days ago.
I'm sorry that this post is so long, but the subject is pretty crucial. Before I bring it to an end, what follows is a mixture comprising some clarification of my own views and an attempt to respond to Marc's own post on this thread.
First of all, this was a case of deliberate and gratuitous rudeness. The posts to which I objected were as follows:
"People that choose to grind their way through uni do little more than take up needed space... If you believe you can succede in the film industry why are you going through the expence and effort to attend uni??? Surely someone with your vast talent should be able to dazzle the industry right now... Or then perhaps not..."
***
I think that the whole post is offensive, but the last two sentences are appallingly rude. And then we had, as part of a longer post:
"I love film too. I love watching films as well. They are a nice thing to pass some dead time....
It is that group of uninterested students that make my point.... In their complacency they drag all the other students down to their level.... As for your results, I remember seeing only one (i think) and it was hideousle executed.... Some sort of thing involving kids in costumes doing some sort of swordplay.... Awful.... If you have done better, well good, I'd like to see some...."
Using words like 'hideous' and 'awful' in criticising someone else would be unforgivable in the context of this forum, whoever was the poster. They are even more unforgivable from a poster who is so quick to take offence if his point of view is criticised.
I don't deny that Marc has had more than a fair share of trauma in his life, and I don't deny that this will have had a lasting effect on his personality. But I don't accept the validity of the reason which he puts forward to justify his behaviour. There are some medical conditions which do explain otherwise unacceptable social interaction - Tourette's Syndrome, Schizophrenia, Psychosis and Alzheimer's Syndrome are examples. However, despite his anxiety problems, Marc is a functional human being. He copes with running two businesses. He can hardly do this if he lashes out at every customer who irritates him - and, let's face it, irritating customers are a fact of life in any retail or sevice business. He knows his own weakness, and he can address it. All he needs to do - as Timmy has suggested - is allow a 'cooling off' period before pressing 'Submit', or, if that's too difficult, he could initially prepare his responses in draft so that the 'Submit' button would not be readily available.
It isn't my custom to air my personal problems in this forum, but lest I be accused of a lack of understanding let me say that I have suffered from mental illness for a long, long time. The symptoms first appeared when I was 16, and I have received treatment intermittently since I was 24, and pretty well continuously for the last half-dozen years. It's controlled by drugs, but it's currently so severe that it's wrecking my life. It's the underlying reason why I usually post in the middle of the night. I am depressingly well acquainted with psychiatric medicine, so I have good reason for believing that the above comments are fair. Life, so far as I am concerned, is a bitch, but that doesn't justify resentment of my fellow men.
And finally, I want to stress again that I am NOT arguing for Marc's exclusion. He has every right to be here, and he has every right to express his opinion. But he does NOT have the right to hurt other people, and I do not believe that he is incapable of addressing that problem.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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Nor have I, Cossie. I agree with most of what you have written. I have deliberately refrained from posting on this matter so far in order to avoid unnecessary exacerbation. But I think that there are some points that need emphasising.
Firstly, this is a Place of Safety for all who post, not just some. If I am expected to be polite and considerate then the least I can expect is that similar restraint will be exercised by all the other posters. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, as they say.
Secondly, given the kind of discussions that we have here and the rather unique blend of personalities that make up the group of posters here impoliteness - even rudeness - is bound to occur from time to time. When it does we have every right to expect that the injured party (or even a third party) demand an apology. If an appropriate apology is forthcoming the matter can die the death; Timmy should step in if an apology is not offered.
Thirdly, and forgive me here for writing 'ad personam'. IMHO Marc is one of the most intelligent people who post to this board. His advice is almost invariably cogent and perspicacious. Many are the young posters (and not so young) who would be deprived of a suberb view of the solution to their problem if Marc's comments were absent. But it is just Marc's very intelligence that irks me and saddens me when he drips 'acid', as he puts it. I refuse to accept that so intelligent a person cannot control the outpourings of their keyboard. There is no person on earth whose past does not influence his present behaviour. But adult human beings have the ability to transcend past tragedies. As far as our personality is concerned we cannot control what was; we can (and should) control what is. It is for that reason that I hold that there is no excuse for impoliteness or rudeness on this message board.
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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No Message Body
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Oh the hell with it.......
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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All of the points raised will be considered carefully. I can't promise to get it right, though. All I can do is to try.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I tried what you suggested.......
I typed a long reply on MSWord and deleted it.....
Not at all because it was in the least bit contravercial....
I deleted it because I just decided that there is no point in trying to make a point....
You see, I have realized it is futile....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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I'd miss you Marc. You have every right to your opinions and in my opinion even your acid is valid when it comes to talk of hospitals, etc. But in the recent dispute I don't think it was fair.
Deej is not TheBlackPrince, by the way, I believe it was TheBlackPrince's video that you saw that involved swordplay, but that was not intended to be a professional production at all. It was something made for fun. TheBlackPrince studies law, not film.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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Whenever I tried and edit posts or if I leave a cooling off period I end up deleting the whole thing. Points in a discussion are made as they are relevant and made as an impulsive thing that "first comes to mind". Re-reading often makes the whole point seem invalid and useless. I used to try posting with a cooling off period. But I can't, I can only post in passion, as I think of my point, when I think of my point.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Exactly....... when I have something to say I say it......
That is why I see cossie's suggestion as in invite not to post......
He will of course deny that was his motives and I aggree that he wouldn't do that sort of thing......
But the result is nonetheless the same......
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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An invite not to post only under very specific circumstances. Marc, surely you can see that.
Just because you have something to say that is rude does not mean you should say it. It's just being polite.
David
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Perception is subjective and rudeness is in the eye or ear of the receiver. Standards of manners vary from place to place. They are subjective and open to interpretation.
Often what is said as a direct comment is misunderstood. I don't mince words, when I have something to say I say it.
If this is not acceptable by way of a suggestion to try another form of posting then I see it as an invitation not to post.
Like I said previously, I know that was not cossie's intention to relate that perception but that assessment still stands.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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The only person who may legitimately invite people not to post is I. I have not made any such invitation. In fact I have said quite the reverse.
The only thing I have ever asked for is lack of rudeness and for lack of exasperating behaviour. For me this also includes the "bluntness" you speak of.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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What then if I find someones behavior exasperating?
And..... Being asked to leave and being made to feel not welcome to post are to me the same thing.....
You may have the only authority to mandate exclusion but more than a few have the power to make someone feel unwelcome.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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To Not Be Offended is Noble
*
Voltaire said:”I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it.”
*
Eleanor Roosevelt said: “Nobody can make you feel inferior with out your consent.”
*
And my favorite: There is enough good in the worst of us and enough bad in the best of us that it Ill-behooves any of us to talk about the rest of us.
Gary
Navyone
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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Let me know. This is a two way street. I don't promise to agree with you, but I do promise to listen.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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It could so easily have become unpleasant.
I'm sorry that I can only rarely appear more than once a day, and so end up reviewing a whole series of posts; in many ways I'd prefer to get involved in the cut and thrust of more rapid exchanges.
Anyway, I've already said a lot, and all I want to do now is to respond to the comments in the post made in the last 24 hours.
Marc, I think that you accept that I don't have any animosity to you as a person. I brought up this issue only because your words were hurtful in a directly personal way. I don't have any objection to strong opinions, or to the strong expression of those opinions. I think you are still having difficulty in accepting that your feeling of being unwelcome is largely self-induced - which doesn't of course mean that the feeling is any less real.
There are two completely separate issues here. There is the way in which opinions are expressed. Different people express their views in different ways. Confronted with an argument I don't accept, I'd prefer to say something like 'I don't think your reasoning is valid'; someone else might react by saying 'You're talking rubbish!". The important thing is that it's the opinion which is being criticised, not the individual who expressed it. OK, such situations can be a little heated, but that's the way of the world. We should all be able to cope with that.
The second issue is the way in which we address not the opinions, but the posters themselves. For example, I've disagreed several times with opinions expressed by NW, but he knows damn' well that I have plenty of respect for him as a person. What I got upset about is the fact that you made insulting remarks about Deeej as a person, not about his opinions. There really cannot be a defence for the dripping sarcasm in the first of the posts I quoted above, nor for the out-and-out (and, in the event, wholly unjustified) rudeness in the second of those posts. As I've already said, you don't have to like other posters, but neither do you have the right to direct personal insults at them.
So when I echoed Timmy's suggestion of a cooling-off period, I wasn't suggesting that you shouldn't say what you think about issues - just that you should take the time to be sure that your reply didn't include personal insults. We've disagreed often enough, but I've never called you a stupid idiot, and - so far as I recollect - neither have you said such a thing to me. I don't doubt that we'll disagree again - and again - and again, but I don't see any reason why we can't concurrently joke with each other on a different thread. I've no quarrel with your statement that when you have something to say, you say it. As Saben suggests, some people are at their best when they are driven by passion. It's just a matter of directing the passion towards the issue rather than against the poster.
I admit that I have an aversion to rudeness; my profession exposed me to a great deal of it. But, above all, I hate to see other people hurt by what is said. Some people have a greater facility with words than others; it's not necessarily any indication of intelligence - different people have different talents. I'd still argue that anyone is capable of realisng that what he is saying will hurt someone else - and that's all I'm asking you, Marc, and every other poster, to avoid.
You've admitted that you need this board. It doesn't need rocket science, in the light of my admission about my own mental health, to conclude that I need it, too. Brian needs it. JFR needs it. Deeej needs it. (I apologise for not specifically mentioning anyone else!) We're all imperfect human beings, but somehow we succeed in helping each other. Your background is different from most of the rest of us, and this means that you are often able to offer unique insights into other peoples' problems. You really are a valuable part of this 'community', even if you sometimes deny that there IS a community.
Can I (with tongue firmly in cheek!) be blunt? Please, Marc, get it into your thick skull that no-one wants you out. Your presence is not only valued, but welcomed. All I ask is that you treat the rest of us as gently as you like to be treated yourself!
Finally, can I just briefly comment on the three quotes provided by Navyone?
I used to agree passionately with the Voltaire quote, but when it comes to radical Muslims encouraging their followers to murder me, or at least people like me, or when I read of radical Christians condemning gays to burn in hell, I begin to have doubts.
The Eleanor Roosevelt quote could only have been made by someone accustomed to being superior. Countless millions have been mercilessly exploited over the ages by the rich and powerful; they were never offered the opportunity to express either consent or opposition.
The third quote is even more naive; my profession brought me into contact with a very wide spectrum of humanity, the only common characteristic being that most of them were rich. I've seen the unspeakably evil and the inspirationally good. Humanity cavers the whole spectrum from good to evil - not just the middle ground.
Perhaps I should emphasise that I'm criticising the sentiments expressed in the quotes; I'm not criticising Navyone for posting them!
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I understand.
I will try my best to do better at reading what I say before I post it.
David (Deeej) I am sorry I was rude to you... and am furthur sorry about the comment abnout that awful film I previewed... I have been made aware it was someone elses work...
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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No Message Body
my void does not want.
-- 2.13.61.
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That was most graciously said. Please, please, please stick around.
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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Aussie
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Really getting into it |
Registered: August 2006
Messages: 475
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Well done Marc, like I said a week ago you are improving . You have admitted to the problem and are prepared to do something about it. What more can you do?
Aussie
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Thank you, Marc. I am also sorry for being rude in response.
I hope that you'll stay. When you're in a good mood, you're able to give advice as good as or better than any of the other posters here. You have a unique viewpoint.
David
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jhawk
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Getting started |
Location: England
Registered: June 2006
Messages: 8
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At the end of the day Timmy did achieve his goal which was for mark to apologise and see his faults, which as a person he did.
We are all different people all of different intellect, and indeed of different cultures.
So when we overstep the line we should gently be put back in line, but not spoken too like school children, and on the other hand we do not need to announce how qualified we are in life.
Live and let live take a deep breath I try too.
It is still the best place on the web
:-/
what goes up must come down ?
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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You know, you are almost right, but also missed by a mile.
My objective is for a contented forum here. If that means someone should apologise and does so, that's good. Byt the objective is to ensure that all who post and all who read may feel contentment when they do either.
People often misunderstand that about me. I may be gentle, but I also run this place where necessary with a rod of iron. It just never quite seems that way.
We are the ones who have been brave enough to seek help in whatever our challenges are. Our role is to pay it forward to especially those who have not yet posted a message. We must show that, however hard or mild our own adversity, we are capable of acting like true gentle men (space intended) and women (for there are several ladies here.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy wrote:
> ....I also run this place where necessary with a rod of iron.....
hmm.....
Way more than I needed to know 
(\\__/) And if you don't believe The sun will rise
(='.'=) Stand alone and greet The coming night
(")_(") In the last remaining light. (C. Cornell)
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