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Some may remember that I first started posting here - in Feb last year - because I was beginning to come to terms with the fact that my first relationship many years ago was - in essence - abusive. To re-cap: the guy - who I've called W. - was four or five years older than me, and took an interest in me (and a bunch of other younger boys). I was 13 when we started hanging out together, had been emotionally, verbally and physically (not sexually) abused by my father, and my parents were going through a rather messy divorce. Looking back, I needed/wanted an older man to love me & cherish me. I already knew that I was - at least largely - gay.
So I fell in love with W. Eventually we started having sex ... although it was often rather rushed and furtive. For what it's worth, my first orgasm was with W., rather than at my own hands. The relationship continued after W. left school and went to a local college. Gradually, we stopped doing things together (concerts, walks, etc) - stopped almost everything but sex. So - aged 15 - I asked to stop the sex for a while, to concentrate on the relationship. And it got rather unpleasant ... W. scared me badly by being physically insistent (not far short of attempted rape) that afternoon, wouldn't meet me in a safe place to start re-building the relationship (but wanted to meet me "just the two of us" at his place, which I refused). Eventually he wrote a hysterical letter to my mother, which fortunately I intercepted before she read it (he had distinctive handwriting and typically used bright green writing paper and envelopes).
I saw him - although not to speak to - just once more. I'd gone back to school (founders' day kind of event) as my younger brother and various friends were ending the U6th and had various bits of work in exhibitions at the school. I saw W. (by then aged around 24/25) disappearing round the far end of the chapel, accompanied by a small and obviously adoring flock of 13-year-olds.
It took me thirty-five years to really accept that this relationship was - at heart - abusive, and that while I had been uncritically and head-over-heels in love with W., his feelings for me were not of the same kind - although I do think he cared for me in many ways. And I'm grateful to the help that timmy and others on this board - and the shrink I was seeing at the time - gave me in coming to terms with this, and starting to be able to move forward.
So, why am I posting this now?
A few days ago, I had a message via "an old-school-friends site" from W. In some ways, good news - he's living with a boyfriend (so presumeably is not still exclusively hung up on adolescents). He has given up the leisure past-time which brought him into regular contact with adolescents. That is all a great relief to me!
However, he seems keen to get back in touch with me "after over 35 years" (he's right - it will be 36 years at the end of October since we split up) - he's given me his work e-mail (but he can only contact me through the site - although I'm not hard to find in the phonebook or via online search engines).
I'm really mixed up about this !!!
He could be just wanting to see someone he has fond memories of, forgetting or overlooking the unpleasant nature of our break-up. Or he could want to clear the air - maybe he in some way doesn't feel he acted appropriately all those years ago and has some idea of sorting things out. Or maybe he feels that I didn't act appropriately, and there is unfinished business. Oh, and my own profile on the site describes me as "Out and Proud, currently unpartnered", if that has any relevance.
Should I ignore the message? Message back saying I don't want to meet him (there is, of course, still a risk of running into him at school functions)? Meet him, and tell him that it's a one-off?
I'm much too close to all this, and emotional still, to think clearly. I'd really welcome any comments or thoughts from anyone ... like I said, I'm feeling fragile about it so please be rather gentle with me, guys!
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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My suggestion is to ask him for time to consider the idea and ask himwhat his motivation is.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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From what I know about you I think this make a point....
First and most importantly, you are no longer the impressionable youth when you and W were an item....
You are much more savy in the way the world works....
That being the case just out and out ask him what is on his mind.... If he is trying to mend fences you (i'm sure) will be able to pick up on it as well as any unpleasant motives he might have....
Also, anything he might have said in person can also be said over the telephone....
Truthfully, I naver had an opportunity to remake an aquaintance from years past.... Any encounters I had when I was young were for the most part one night stands give or take.... this being the case I have no "relationships" so to speak to reconnect with....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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I will tell you from the view of the older person who was in a number of these relationships over the years, that you should probably talk to him over a distance, at least at first, until you are sure he has changed.
I know that I was not exactly like your friend as I was never forceful in any way with any of the boys I knew sexually. Your friend evidently was somewhat forceful in dealing with you as you have stated earlier. I would not like to see you put yourself into any kind of position where you could be hurt at all. I am leaning towards thinking the same as you; that he might have had some guilt about what he had done with you and is now wanting to appologize to you some way. However, what if that is not true? He should be willing to meet you in an email or on the phone with you calling him from a payphone if that makes you feel safer.
You do not owe him anything................He apparantly did most of the taking in the relationship. I never had a boy in love with me and it would have made me feel odd I think. I was a person who wanted to mostly experience sex thru a younger friend and expected nothing from the other person. I am not so sure this W is like me at all so I am a bit cautious about you meeting him again. I would certainly go with my instincts on this one, but with a lot of caution.
If this will cause some kind of mental anguish for you, then don't do it. It may be that all he wants is forgiveness and that is really up to you to do that if you feel right about doing it. Like I say, you owe him nothing.
Ken
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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... and Marc's comments are especially to the point. I think it would be very wise to initiate contact by telephone, and if you have real misgivings I would even suggest the option of making the call from a public box. He is the one initiating the contact, so he should be willing to disclose his number.
That said, I accept that leopards of this kind sometimes DO change their spots - I'm only advocating initial caution until you've had the chance to judge his attitude for yourself. It's not all that unusual for a young adult to exhibit paedophile tendencies simply because he is unsure of his ability to react to his peers; it doesn't necessarily follow that those tendencies are embedded for life, though of course that often is the case.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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This may sound rather simplistic, but first of all ask yourself outright: 'Do I want to meet W again?' Remember you have no obligations towards him, only to yourself. Should the answer be no, problem solved. If it is yes, you are a small pace further forward, but of course the problems then begin. 'I don't know' really counts as a yes.
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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Nigel wrote:
first of all ask yourself outright: 'Do I want to meet W again?' Remember you have no obligations towards him, only to yourself.
Nigel, you may be right; but on the other hand you leave no room for curiosity, which after all these years must exist in NW's heart. I think an exploratory telephone conversation would be best. Second best would be a face-to-face meeting in a very public place.
Good luck, NW.
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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…but I do since curiosity necessitates the answer yes.
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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Hi NW,
I'm not really sure, as I don't have any experience of my own remotely like this.
I think Marc's suggestion that you telephone him is a good one. Assuming he'll give you his number, you can quiz him and try and find out his motivation -- if you withhold your number, then there is no risk he'll start ringing you back.
To be honest -- this thought may be invalidated by my youth -- I have not known anyone who has substantially changed in character over the time I have known him. Those people who were childish and selfish in their teens are just the same when they get older; they are just better at covering it up. So I doubt W has changed a great deal.
On the other hand, it all comes down to whether you would actually like to see him. If so, you don't have to justify it, and you don't have much to lose.
David
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Thanks, everyone, for your views - I found them all vey helpful in considering the range of options open to me.
I think I've decided that I probably should see W. Not mainly because I want to, but because I think that sooner or later there is a fair chance that I'll run into him again by accident ... I'm in our home city (where he still lives)increasingly frequently, and there's a good chance that I will move back to that general area at some point in the next couple of years. It would be better to meet him by arrangement (when I'm feeling strong and have emotional support available) then if it should happen that I run into him by accident.
I've thought a lot about contacting him by phone, but I think that it would be important for me to actually see his reactions when we talk ... I'm not good at judging things over the phone (and phones often make me nervous). So I'm gonna e-mail him from a temporary e-mail account, saying that I'm passing through our home city**, and perhaps we could meet for lunch. This should put a time limit on the meeting, and mean that we met in a busy restuarant or pub, so we'd have to keep emotions under control.
** Not exactly a lie - I do want to go and look at a property I'm interested in about 15 miles away ... so I could fix an appointment to suit.
I'll let you all know if I do actually work up the balls to do this!
thanks again
NW
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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This sounds like a sound plan to me.... I would be at the meeting place early, thus making you able to choose the table best suited to your comfort zone....
You get nervous on the phone too????
I do too.... Sometimes anxiety makes it impossible to do little more than squeek....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Would you like a friend to come with you as support? I'm sure one of us is close enough to you emotionally and geograhically.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Thanks Marc - good point about me getting to choose the table!
I'm funny on the phone. Work-wise, it's never a problem - I think because I'm very goal-focussed, so I know what needs to be said and what I'm hoping to achieve on the phone.
Social phone calls can be very difficult (unless it's someone that I know really well). I almost never call people socially ... but if they call me I always think it's a good thing! Fortunately, most of my aquintances can cope with this little foible of mine. I've definitely got worse since the invention of e-mail: call me chicken, perhaps.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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Thanks timmy for that generous suggestion!
But I think I'll be OK. I have a very close (female) friend, who I've known since I was ten, who lives a few miles out of the city - I think I'll brief her, and invite myself there for teatime (so support is there later). For the actual meeting, I'm better by myself.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Yup..... It's the same way for me, although I never make calles business or otherwise except to my mom and dad....
Social calls are not possible for me to make but, like you, incoming calls are quite ok.
Mostly, I am as anal reguarding email as the phone...
I have never been good at writing letters either...
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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As long as you're in a public place I think you will be fine.
Just remember that you are in charge and if it gets uncomfortable you can always just get up and walk out.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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There is NO GUILT about having been the abused partner in a relationship. You enter this meeting from a position of strength and power, and you will leave it either pleased or disappointed, but still in a position of power.
You are attending it as the "chairman" if you like, and he is just an attendee. You are in control of all aspects except his late arrival.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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