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OK I think brandon is about to quite he has been calling in alot to work. and i have not talked to him in almost a week. So I have come to the conclustion to tell him. but I need yall help I have no clue what to say and howto say it, so he dose not freak. Cause it is going to be hard enough to over come some of my fears. But I can't let him leave with saying some thing. don't want to hate my self for at least not trying.
So say what you want
(You know I'm wasting all my time)
You've gotta mean it when you say what you want
(You're only safe when you're alone)
And everybody's on your mind
Saying anything to get you by
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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If you jump into it just for the sake of coming out to him before he leaves the job you might be making a huge mistake.
Calm down and think about what you're doing before you just blurt out something that can never be unblurted.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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In my experience, people don't freak unless they are insecure in their own sexuality. I.e. they're closeted and gay, or emotionally stunted and unable to deal with matters of the heart, gay or straight. It may be different in America, but when I've come out to other young people (I have not tried out people), most just said, "Oh?" and the conversation moved on to another topic.
Finding out if someone else is gay is harder, as it requires them to give out possibly-confidential information. Timmy has urged me in the past to go up to cute boys, complete strangers, and say "Hi. I was just wondering if you were gay?" I have never found the courage to do that. However, I have managed to steer the conversation around to associated subjects with friends. If the conversation was along the right lines, I might then ask, "Are you gay?" in a very low-key, casual way. Usually (in fact, always, so far) the answer has been no, but, just as importantly, no-one has been offended yet -- indeed, I think that most people wouldn't even remember that I asked it. It just flowed naturally from the conversation.
David
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It really depends whether the world I've described or the one Marc describes sounds more familiar!
Marc says that things cannot be unblurted but (at least over here) I disagree. I'm generally "out" (though perhaps only in description, not in action) but despite the fact that close friends, school and university friends (if they ask) know, this has never filtered over to the workplace, or to family, or to other, lesser acquaintances. I do not see any reason why it should -- at least, until I actually acquire a boyfriend, likely not even then.
The UK does have much more stringent laws against discrimination in the workplace, though.
David
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And what I should have added is that I do not really care if it does filter across to the workplace.
The film industry is a particularly liberal industry, though.
David
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Well, I was thinking more about it filtering to the family rether than the workplace....
The workplace is just a job....
The family pays for college....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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How would it filter?
Unless it's a family or friend-run business I cannot think of any mechanism for it to do that. On the whole, sexuality's a private thing. It's not the sort of thing that would come up in polite conversation.
The family pays for college. True. It appalls me to think that there is any family who would throw out a son for being gay in this day and age, but I suppose they exist.
David
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... congratulations on your 3000th post, Marc!
David
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Ok..... when living in the bible belt there seems to be an obligation to spread the bad word when it is to the church's advantage. These zealots see it as a moral responsibility to stick their noses into other peoples business.
If word got out in his neighborhood there is a very real chance that it will filter back to his parents.
I personally know of 3 gay youth being expelled from their homes in the past 2 years.... and that is from the smallish city I live in here in Ohio. All three were from religous families... It is a real problem here....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Huh?????????????
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I am not trying to burst Jason's bubble here....
But I think he needs to consider all the possible scenierios and he needs to hope for the best but also be prepared for the worst.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Marc said:
>But I think he needs to consider all the possible scenierios and he needs to hope for the best but also be prepared for the worst.
I agree with you there absolutely. Only Jason can know that. If family/friends are, on the whole liberal (with a small 'l') and/or secular, then he is likely not to have any problems, even if the worst happens. On the other hand, it is be dangerous to confide in someone you don't absolutely trust if the worst-possible consequences could include a forced change in lifestyle.
I do think, though, that regardless of his social situation, Jason could probably find a way of asking Brandon if he is gay without coming out himself. If he is gay and attracted to Jason, the chances are he will be prepared at least to discuss the subject. If he is not willing to discuss it, or is deeply suspicious, then he is either heavily closeted or straight-homophobic -- neither of which could lead to a successful relationship anyway. It's a case of watching out for warning signs and steering the conversation to less controversial subjects if it gets at all difficult.
David
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Thats right it does track how many times you post. Congratualtions Marc
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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The messageboard keeps count of how many posts it thinks you've posted. Next to your post, it said, "Total posts: 3000". Now it says 3005, because you've posted 5 more times.
I just thought you might be interested...
David
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What was the first title of this thread?
Wicked hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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As long as you do it gently and for the right reasons, and as long as you are sure he and you are friends first, then do it simply and quietly.
The right reasons are because it will be of benefit to both of you in your friendship.
The wrong reasons, unless you are very careful, are because you think it will only benefit you.
I am thinking along the lines of "It's good having met you this summer. I like having you as a friend. Can we keep seeing each other after..... (whatever it is that is about to happen?"
Now, if this allows forward motion then you make the next decision. If he says "I don't think so", then keep your coming out to yourself. he does not need to know, however beautiful he is you are not for him.
If he is happy for you both to meet up in the future, LEAVE coming out for the future. Build the friendship and one day you will know more. You can find out what he thinks about gay marriage, for example, or about gay adoption of kids.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Timmy said:
>If he is happy for you both to meet up in the future, LEAVE coming out for the future. Build the friendship and one day you will know more. You can find out what he thinks about gay marriage, for example, or about gay adoption of kids.
If you value him purely as a friend, yes, absolutely. But once you have established him as a friend, the chances are, always, that he will be straight. The odds are simply stacked against gay people. If that's the case, you may well become the best of mates, but it can never be more than that. He won't "turn gay" if you talk to him in the right way. It's really important to appreciate that -- it sounds obvious, but, looking back, I have made that mistake in the past.
Timmy, and I, to a certain extent, have spent our lives making friends with people on the basis that we are attracted to them intellectually and physically. That feeling is virtually never reciprocal. In my case, it means I have many straight friends, but have never (until now) had any gay ones. Therefore the chances of myself finding my way into a relationship with a good friend by chance are pretty much zilch.
David
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I see your point, Deej. However I am mindful of the often huge divide between UK and US communities. Jason may live in a tolerant or an intolerant community, so he must judge the risk, as I have said before, and whether that is a large or small danger for him.
The "friends first" approach works in a potentially hostile community because it allows Jason to judge if Brandon actually even likes him.
In the environment where you and I live it is (relatively) safe to be out. And I genuinely do not know if any of the boys I was attracted to were gay, and again if they were even attracted to me. I never went the extra mile, you see. Never asked about matters of a homosexual nature.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Timmy,
I've admitted that I don't know what Jason's situation is like. Things have come a long way in the UK in recent years -- I guess there may not be anywhere in America like this. In the end, it is up to him. Sorry, Jason -- I don't mean to talk about you in the third person. I mean, it is up to you.
Timmy, you said:
>I genuinely do not know if any of the boys I was attracted to were gay, and again if they were even attracted to me. I never went the extra mile, you see. Never asked about matters of a homosexual nature.
I did, at the stage that I came out to people. It was interesting, actually. Every one of my friends went out of his way to say, "Oh, good for you," or "Oh, right" (luckily never "that explains a lot!") or even better, he just went on to ask questions that would stem naturally if I had been heterosexual, just adjusted for gender. But, in nearly all cases, he would also go out of his way to make it clear that he was not gay himself. If the tone of the conversation was light-hearted and ambiguous, he might shoot out a quick "I'm not gay, by the way," just to make the matter clear. I've never had someone say back to me, "Oh, what a coincidence -- so am I!", and even if they had it does not mean there would have been any mutual attraction between us. So, simply through my own experience, I would not ever suggest coming out later to a friend as a way of establishing a relationship. It hasn't worked for me, and it almost inevitably leads to disappointment, if a relationship is what you're looking for.
(I am lucky in that most of my friends I value just as highly as friends. So it did not matter in the least that they weren't gay.)
David
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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We are on similar lines but we diverge a little.
With Brandon, where the two are about to separate "at work", part of the courtship could be to establish a friendship.
I am this not thinking of forming a relationship with an existing friend, but am thinking of wooing Brandon first wth friendship, but accepting that all that is available may be friendship
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Timmy said,
>I am ... not thinking of forming a relationship with an existing friend, but am thinking of wooing Brandon first wth friendship, but accepting that all that is available may be friendship
I was not quite talking about forming a relationship with an existing friend: some people who are good friends now were people I was attracted to from the start. I have practiced the "strategy", if it could be said to be one, since at least the age of 13. And I have not had any success over 9 years.
However, I take your point. We see the facts the same way. The difference is that you are inclined to suggest Jason make friends in the light of the tiny chance that Brandon will also be gay (also taking into account social factors which make this strategy much safer); I'm inclined to say that, whatever the social factors, there's no point in pursuing Brandon unless Jason is totally prepared for (in fact, expects) the relationship to be nothing more than platonic friendship. Either that, or Jason should try and find out if Brandon is gay first -- through a subtle and non-incriminating method, if possible -- so if Brandon turns out to be hopelessly homophobic and/or inappropriate Jason will know to steer clear of him, and save a lot of heartache.
David
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Fair assessment. In each case Jason has more information on which to make his decision
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Aussie
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Really getting into it |
Registered: August 2006
Messages: 475
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Timmy's approach would be mine as well.I would say "Hi Brandon, sorry to hear you are leaving, any particular reason?" Then wait for the answer which may give you some insights into him. eg. the familes moving to????
Depending if the answer makes it favourable to continue the friendship say "can we keep in touch?" Answer will be yes, no or possibly maybe. Assuming the first one, exchange contact details and take it from there.
It would be much safer if you were going to out yourself to him to do it after he has left.
If the answer is no you can't go any further and you will know it would have been unwise to out yourself. I am not sure about a maybe, you will have to play it by ear.
Try to do it casually and be yourself.
These are just a few thoughts for you to consider.
Aussie
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Well Brandon, was not at work today he called in. and tomorrow I go out of town for a week. I just hope he has not quite by the time i get back.
If he quites. Sorry I have not post. Til now. been to therpy school work gym.
I'm going to ans every ones question
I would be ok with just being friends I think.
Its not just a phisical attration his mind. we like alot of the same things and dislike alot of the same thing. and or personaltys are a match.
I live in a intolerant community, With large risk for me. But I think that i would not have that much of a proble at work I am well liked and the age range is about 23-50. Me and brandon are the youngest.
The real risk come to my faimly. Most of my family would disown me. Including my parents. and they won't find out in til after they are done paying for collage.
So say what you want
(You know I'm wasting all my time)
You've gotta mean it when you say what you want
(You're only safe when you're alone)
And everybody's on your mind
Saying anything to get you by
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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One thing to take into consideration about risk at work......
If you are in a religous community your employer might just fire you so not to offend his clientelle.
As for your parents.....
Ever hear the phrase "bad news spreads like wildfire"????????
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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If the community is intolerant then you need to feel your way step by step until oyu know (as far as anyone can know) that it is safe.
If college depends on parents and parenst are intolerant then you need to kep your powder dry and use little bits of it with care.
There is no harm at all in asking to keep in touch with him.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Even if i get fired there are laws that protect me, and my secret is safe from it leaving work. and my work is about 30 min away from where i live and there is no one person that live near me
So say what you want
(You know I'm wasting all my time)
You've gotta mean it when you say what you want
(You're only safe when you're alone)
And everybody's on your mind
Saying anything to get you by
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Jason, My mom is in a management possition and these people from diff companies talk to each other. Ive heard my mom talk about someone who applied for a job and got bad references and how they were perves or something. Technicly the law protects you , but in reality it doesnt. It would be nearly impossible to prove why they didnt hire you.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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On that note, the company that I worked for before I came to The office supply store. Was Fry's Electric. And my boss was gay friendly. there where to openly gay guys there. And my old boss has called me on a couple of occation trying to get me to come back. So I know I can get enother job no problem.
I am out of town right no on faimly biz and won't be back untill monday i just hope he dose not quite before i get back. if brandon quites.
So say what you want
(You know I'm wasting all my time)
You've gotta mean it when you say what you want
(You're only safe when you're alone)
And everybody's on your mind
Saying anything to get you by
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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All is not lost if Brandon has quit. Just ask for his contact details, or ask the current boss to forward a note to him that says "Damn, missed you when you left. Hoped we could stay in touch" and give YOUR contact details
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I can get his phone number and address any time I want. But thought that may be a little creepy to that.
So say what you want
(You know I'm wasting all my time)
You've gotta mean it when you say what you want
(You're only safe when you're alone)
And everybody's on your mind
Saying anything to get you by
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Think less "relationship" and more "friendship" for a moment. You get a guy's number and call him up (etc) if he is a friend, or you'd like to be his friend.
Now there is no diff if this is to be a possible relationship. The start point is the same  Not weird at all.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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well what i ment was. I am in a higher postion then him not his boss but. but as our biz calls a lead/head right below the department manager. and don't want to look like I am a kreep call him after he left to see if he wants to hang ou some time.
On a side note I guess this should have been with the first post.
So say what you want
(You know I'm wasting all my time)
You've gotta mean it when you say what you want
(You're only safe when you're alone)
And everybody's on your mind
Saying anything to get you by
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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You know, I see no reason why he shodl not take such a call, shoudl you need to do it, at face value and with a smile. After all, you LIKE the guy don't you? It is not his looks and his figure that attract you alone?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Thats just it. Looks have very little. its a part but it is mostly what he is. what makes him, him. Like I said when I first started to post that I feel some thing that I have never felt before. I have had crushes on other guys just to be turnd off by there personaltys. But brandons is different I realy did not even notic hime untill we made eye contact. I think. But to ans your question no it is no a his looks that I'm after.
So say what you want
(You know I'm wasting all my time)
You've gotta mean it when you say what you want
(You're only safe when you're alone)
And everybody's on your mind
Saying anything to get you by
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Then, since he is worth making the effort over as a whole person, make the effort.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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You are right. I will if he has left. I will call him. and see if he wants to go get a drink\\or do some thing. I just don't think I could live with my self if I don't at least try.
So say what you want
(You know I'm wasting all my time)
You've gotta mean it when you say what you want
(You're only safe when you're alone)
And everybody's on your mind
Saying anything to get you by
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I waited until I was 48 to contact my 18 year old who made me feel the same way. That was stupid and far too long. In real terms the outcome does not matter. What matters is knowing where you stnd and that there IS an outcome, not so much WHAT it is.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I am just scared to call to get an ans that I don't want to hear. I am ok if he is just a friend. but I don't think I could take it if he wants nothing to do with me. Even if he turns out just to be a friend. I... would be sad...
So say what you want
(You know I'm wasting all my time)
You've gotta mean it when you say what you want
(You're only safe when you're alone)
And everybody's on your mind
Saying anything to get you by
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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The thing is, "Sad" is FANTASTIC compared with "I wonder if.....".
Please trust me. I spent so MANY years, sometimes still do, thinking "I wonder if...." and it is awful. Evilly awful.
The words "no, and I hate you" sting, but they are so much better than wondering
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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All right I'll come out to him(brandon) 
