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Thu Oct 12, 8:46 AM ET
OSLO (Reuters) - The birds and the bees may be gay, according to the world's first museum exhibition about homosexuality among animals.
With documentation of gay or lesbian behavior among giraffes, penguins, parrots, beetles, whales and dozens of other creatures, the Oslo Natural History Museum concludes human homosexuality cannot be viewed as "unnatural."
"We may have opinions on a lot of things, but one thing is clear -- homosexuality is found throughout the animal kingdom, it is not against nature," an exhibit statement said.
Geir Soeli, the project leader of the exhibition entitled "Against Nature," told Reuters: "Homosexuality has been observed for more than 1,500 animal species, and is well documented for 500 of them."
The museum said the exhibition, opening on Thursday despite condemnation from some Christians, was the first in the world on the subject. Soeli said a Dutch zoo had once organised tours to view homosexual couples among the animals.
"The sexual urge is strong in all animals. ... It's a part of life, it's fun to have sex," Soeli said of the reasons for homosexuality or bisexuality among animals.
One exhibit shows two stuffed female swans on a nest -- birds sometimes raise young in homosexual couples, either after a female has forsaken a male mate or donated an egg to a pair of males.
One photograph shows two giant erect penises flailing above the water as two male whales rub together. Another shows a male giraffe mounting another for sex, another describes homosexuality among beetles.
BURN IN HELL
One radical Christian said organizers of the exhibition -- partly funded by the Norwegian government -- should "burn in hell," Soeli said. Laws describing homosexuality as a "crime against nature" are still on the statutes in some countries.
Greek philosopher Aristotle noted apparent homosexual behavior among hyenas 2,300 years ago but evidence of animal homosexuality has often been ignored by researchers, perhaps because of distaste, lack of interest or fear or ridicule.
Bonobos, a type of chimpanzee, are among extremes in having sex with either males or females, apparently as part of social bonding. "Bonobos are bisexuals, all of them," Soeli said.
Still, it is unclear why homosexuality survives since it seems a genetic dead-end.
Among theories, males can sometimes win greater acceptance in a pack by having homosexual contact. That in turn can help their chances of later mating with females, he said.
And a study of homosexual men in Italy suggested that their mothers and sisters had more offspring. "The same genes that give homosexuality in men could give higher fertility among women," he said.
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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... of this pioneering exhibition. Sailor, take a bow on behalf of your homeland!
I think we can ignore the idiot Christian right; its collective intelligence is obviously too limited to pose a threat to anyone. But it really is important for all of US that scientific evidence that homosexuality is widespread in nature receives the widest possible publicity. If it is an integral part of nature, then such tendencies among humans logically cannot be a crime against nature.
Incidentally, adult Bonobos also indulge in sex-play with juveniles, to the apparent satisfaction of both parties. Might there be a further scientific lesson there?
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Scientific, yes. Socially acceptable to "western society" no. Interesting how the "primitive societies" often educate their young in sex with adults helping out, so to speak. That is until missionaries turned up.
The "primitive society" morality is simply diferent from christian morality. But they are/were as moral within their code as "we" are within ours
[Updated on: Sat, 14 October 2006 11:16]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I suppose the one thing to be thankful for regarding the militant christians is that they will all inhabit the same hell, but think it is heaven.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Thanks, Cossie! All the credit goes to the good people of the GLB movement, who have been, and still are, working incessantly to enlighten and educate, and to open people's hearts and minds to what being gay and lesbian is about. The Church of Norway at all levels have been specially targeted during the recent years, and the church now presents itself as more gay-friendly than e.g. sports clubs. So far not one male gay Norwegian skier, athlete or footballer is out of the closet. Therefore the Norwegian Confederation of Sports is now next on the list.
Norwegians are not easily drawn into extremism, neither economically, politically nor in religion, but we do have a few churches, inspired by and affiliated to American fundamentalist groups.
In 2000 a documentary was shown on Norwegian TV, presenting Bjorn Erik, a young man who committed suicide because his church wouldn't accept his homosexuality. Pastor Jan-Aage Torp of Bjorn Erik's church was among the people interviewed in the film, and the pastor's absolute lack of compassion and unvarnished hatred against gay people made it impossible for virtually anyone to defend or be associated with him and his extreme opinions.
The chairman of Oslo City Council, Erlend Lae, himself openly gay, opened the exhibition at the Natural History Museum, while pastor Jan-Aage Torp was launching the idea that the money would be better spent on curing the poor, perverted animals.
Probably, where we stand, is no better illustrated than by the reaction of my two daughters and their men when I came out to them only a couple of weeks ago. Their reaction was one of acceptance, love and care, and we had a good laugh when my elder daughter said that, "In fact, I'm relieved! I was afraid that you were bringing home a woman!"
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huwar
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Getting started |
Registered: May 2004
Messages: 13
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While perhaps less compelling, the anecdotal evidence is strong. A drive through most countrysides where there is free range presents examples of homosexual bahaviour. In the forty years I raised stock (cattle, goats, dogs, hens, and geese) on what seemed a humane scale with room to roam, decent shelter, and good feed there were constant examples of the naturalness of homosexuality.
A propos it may be, one John Rainolds, a sixteenth century Oxford scholar, quoted by Stephen Greenblatt in 'Will in the World' commenting on the practice of schoolboys perfroming plays of Plautus and Terence notes that the plot may call for the boy playing the part of the hero to kiss the boy playing the heroine, and that kiss may be the undoing of both children, for the kiss of a beautiful boy may be like the kiss of certain spiders, "if they do but touch men only with their mouth they put them to wonderful pain and make them mad."
What spidet would that be?
And schoolboys playing male and female parts is another and fascinating story. hugh
don't ask the way to peace; peace is the way
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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Over the last 40 years - precisely the period in which gay relationships in the UK have moved from illegality to entitlement to virtually all the rights and protections enjoyed by heterosexual couples - the attitude to boys taking female parts on stage has changed from acceptance to something approaching abhorrence.
The tradition was long-established in classical theatre, though it had declined over the last couple of centuries, but it continued in drama productions in single-sex schools and, from the 1930s to the 1960s, it was an integral element of Scout Gang Shows. I am not aware of a single instance of any boy suffering adversely in consequence.
This, I think, is a chilling example of the power of the self-righteous, self-appointed guardians of our morality to achieve a significant change in public perception without putting forward a shred of evidence in support of their view. As ever, they succeed because anyone willing to mount vigorous opposition is branded (by them!) a pervert, and the assumption that there is no smoke without fire places careers, and indeed lives, in jeopardy.
It's an affront to both morality and justice!
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Er, around 7 years ago my son played a non speaking role of a hugely tarty French maid on school stage. He seduced the audience and brought the house down. He was 13 or so, maybe 14.
But, in general, the school imported girls from the local school for pretentious lady hippos. His own effort was, I suppose, more like a revue.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I have to back up Timmy here.
Cossie said,
>Over the last 40 years - precisely the period in which gay relationships in the UK have moved from illegality to entitlement to virtually all the rights and protections enjoyed by heterosexual couples - the attitude to boys taking female parts on stage has changed from acceptance to something approaching abhorrence.
>The tradition was long-established in classical theatre, though it had declined over the last couple of centuries, but it continued in drama productions in single-sex schools and, from the 1930s to the 1960s, it was an integral element of Scout Gang Shows. I am not aware of a single instance of any boy suffering adversely in consequence.
I was not aware, at least at school -- both my prep school and my public school, the former which was slightly co-ed and the latter which was single sex -- of any movement against boys playing girls. Agreed, it was rarely done for "serious" drama, but then I doubt it was 40 years ago either.
When I was fourteen I played the part of an androgynous cross-dressing woman who turned out to be a man in front of maybe three hundred schoolboys. This was great fun. In fact, at that particular festival it was considered much more interesting for boys to play girls than for boys to play boys. The more provocative and sexy, the better.
Outside schools you can usually find lots of female actors, so there is not so much demand for boys to play girls. But if a professional production warranted it I don't see why the director could not cast whomever he wanted to play whatever part he wanted, provided the actor didn't mind.
>This, I think, is a chilling example of the power of the self-righteous, self-appointed guardians of our morality to achieve a significant change in public perception without putting forward a shred of evidence in support of their view. As ever, they succeed because anyone willing to mount vigorous opposition is branded (by them!) a pervert, and the assumption that there is no smoke without fire places careers, and indeed lives, in jeopardy.
If this is to any degree true, it did not apply in any of the circles I moved in. I can remember several productions at school in which the boy playing the man and the boy playing the girl kissed -- although I will admit that this was usually a very theatrical kiss. It always brought the house down.
David
[Updated on: Sun, 15 October 2006 14:20] |
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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... and, let's face it, 'twas ever thus! Certainly I am aware of schools - including single-sex schools - which will not countenance cross-dressing; dramas requiring a significant number of the opposite sex are avoided, and in any other case pupils from an opposite-sex school are shipped in.
Oh, and yes, I did play a cute little girl in two of the four Gang Shows in which I appeared. Hey, guys, the silky knickers were ever so sexy!
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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The school may not be typical, (how could it be?), but the kids there are truly no different from kids elsewhere. Some of them have more cash, others less.
Remember, the parent chooses where to send the child, who has no choice in the matter. The "Ladies who lunch" who are often the mothers are just the same as the chavs who send their kids to the local state school where Mrs timmy teaches.
Ask any teenage boy if he wants to play the girl on stage nad the answer is likely to be "no", as it was when we weren't dionsaurs. And when we were in school it was the slightly built pretty boys who were "asked" to be the heroine.
That was menat to be a logical rant, but I gave up halfway through coz I am not yet awake. Half of each paragraph is thus either not logical or not a rant.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Aussie
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Really getting into it |
Registered: August 2006
Messages: 475
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Gee Cossie, any chance of seeing the photos?
Aussie
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Aussie
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Really getting into it |
Registered: August 2006
Messages: 475
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If you show me yours I'll show you mine.
Serious confession here,(hangs head)I was a cross dresser too at age 12.
Dressed up as a Brownie whilst in the UK. Well it seemed to be an ok thing to do over there.
Aussie
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I was a can can girl in a yellow dress with black stockings and frilly everything.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Aussie
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Really getting into it |
Registered: August 2006
Messages: 475
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Where were you in '55? I came looking for you.
Aussie
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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well, as a three year old I was cute but uninteresting
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Aussie
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Really getting into it |
Registered: August 2006
Messages: 475
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"You are awful....but I like you"
Aussie
[Updated on: Mon, 16 October 2006 07:59] |
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Aussie
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Really getting into it |
Registered: August 2006
Messages: 475
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Still in nappies then?
Aussie
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Or was it Dick Emery?
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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Aussie
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Really getting into it |
Registered: August 2006
Messages: 475
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I think you might be right, I must have had a senior moment.
Aussie
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Jedediah
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Likes it here |
Location: Made in NZ
Registered: March 2006
Messages: 170
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Remember this? Probably shouldn't tell you , but this finally made our local paper last night. (Maybe the carrier pigeon stopped for a rest somewhere.)
Neway - the text of the article is slightly different. I just love the last sentence :-
"A Pentecostal priest lashed out at the exhibition saying taxpayers' money used for it would have been better spent helping the animals correct "their perversions and deviances"
Umm - how?
cheers
E Te Atua tukuna mai ki au te Mauri tauki te tango i nga mea
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"A Pentecostal priest lashed out at the exhibition saying taxpayers' money used for it would have been better spent helping the animals correct "their perversions and deviances"
Umm - how?
All buses, taxies and trains have stopped, flights are cancelled, schools and shops are closed, our garbage bins are not emptied, because we are waiting for him, the Prophet, to correct our dung beetles.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Ah it is so easy to correct perverted animals.
You slaughter them and eat them. Thus it earns more than it costs. "Pente-costal" Earn five times (pente) the cost (costal).
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Yummy. Fried giraffe. Baked beetle. Roast penguin. Parrot a l'orange. Whale Meat Again. Gosh, who would have known what an exciting diet one has as a Pentecostal!
David
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Do you have a pan large enough for the giraffe? As for Whale meat, don't know where, don't know when.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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