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My poppies arrived last week - I'll start wearing them from 1st November. As usual, I expect I'll get a great deal of flak, insults, and worse. You see, I choose to wear a white poppy for Remembrance, not a red one.
"White Poppies for Peace were first made by the Women's Co-operative Guild in 1933. Members of the Guild - many of whom were mothers, sisters and widows of the men killed in WW1 - feared that the 'war to end all wars', in which their men had died, would be followed by an even worse war. The white poppy was a reminder of the horrors of war. People who wore it did so as a way of insisting that those in power should resist war; that conflicts should be resolved without violence and with justice.
Over 300 wars later, and after the slaughter of over 200 million people, the white poppy continues to be a powerful reminder of the world's failure to prevent war. It is a symbol of grief for everyone who has been harmed by war, but more importantly it is a symbol of our determination to work together to abolish war for good. The white poppy looks to the future; join us and help us make it non-violent. "
I rather suspect that I'm the only "out" pacifist on this board, but if anyone else is interested, more details on http://www.whitepoppy.org.uk
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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As long as there is one person on this planet that has one thing more than another person on this planet there will be strife....
It is the lot of humankind to try and take with force what another has....
Idealism in all it's forms might well bring these conflicts to light but as long as one garden has one more turnip than the next there will be war.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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I'm slightly more optimistic - I think it's worth the gardeners co-operating to see if one can grow turnips, another grow beans, and a third grow corn. Then they can take it in turns ... and because of the crop rotation, each will have a bigger harvest every year. And if they swap produce, each will have an enriched experience of life.
To put it another way ... either we squabble over who gets the biggest bit of cake, or we work together to make the cake bigger.
It isn't easy. But then, worthwhile things generally aren't !
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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A bigger cake would be nice..... But without doubt, the one with the new larger cake pan will insist on the largest piece of cake.....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Nah, we've got ways of dealing with that ...
Among two people, the one who *doesn't* cut the cake, get to choose which piece he wants.
Among three people (like me and my two siblings as kids) one person cuts the cake, the other two toss a coin. The winner of the toss chooses first, the loser of the toss chooses second, the cutter takes the piece left over.
It's a question of structuring the social rules to incentivise fairness in cutting up the cake. And most people have a self-image that doesn't let them admit to being obviously "unfair" ... we just have to work on ways of bringing that out, and making sure that "fair" is an all-inclusive concept.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Fair is and has never been an all inclusive concept....
Self image is directly proportionate to how one measures oneself against the other players in the field.....
If the others look better, play better, gave bigger cakes, sandier beaches then the viewer will look on with impending envy.....
It is human nature and is not about to be altered easily.....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Marc wrote:
> Self image is directly proportionate to how one measures oneself against the other players in the field.....
>
That is something I'd certainly agree with. But there's at least some evidence that *what* is measured doesn't have to be the material stuff. Concepts like personal honour, fairness, friendship, being a good sport, ...
For me, the big question is how we can help our current society transform itself into one where these qualites are the areas in which people choose to measure themselves against others.
Please note that I'm certainly not claiming that I'd score particularly highly myself in any such comparison!
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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NW wrote:
> Marc wrote:
>
> > Self image is directly proportionate to how one measures oneself against the other players in the field.....
> >
> That is something I'd certainly agree with. But there's at least some evidence that *what* is measured doesn't have to be the material stuff. Concepts like personal honour, fairness, friendship, being a good sport, ...
>
> For me, the big question is how we can help our current society transform itself into one where these qualites are the areas in which people choose to measure themselves against others.
Ahhh....... the answer to this is quite simple.... and that is to kill off about 99.999999 % of the population to a group which is managable.
Only with a managable number of survivors could anything as basic as human greed be conquered.....
But this will only be applicable as long as no one is allowed free thought or free speach..... Once these two are added into the equasion then the liklihood that someone will concieve a better way of doing things will tip the balance to strife once again....
>
> Please note that I'm certainly not claiming that I'd score particularly highly myself in any such comparison!
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Marc wrote:
> Only with a managable number of survivors could anything as basic as human greed be conquered.....
>
I'd agree that directing - as oppsed to suffering - change in the values of society is easier in a small-scale society ... but we have to make the best of the society we happen to have.
And I certainly don't take greed (ie for excess material possessions)as basic to humans - it seems to be a feature of certain types of social organisation and not of others. The need to feel respected and respect oneself, to feel one has a place, to feel secure, are IMO the basics that that greed tries (and fails) to address ... and in particular our society desperately undervalues and downgrades something that I think humans (as social animals) have as a real basic need - the need to contribute.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Making the best with the society we have....
Well that was why I said we would need to thin the herd somewhat.... You would still have the same society but it would be somewhat managable in scope....
Greed was only an example....
You can insert any other applicable word and the effect/result would be the same....
I guess the best way to say it is that you can not teach an old dog new tricks.....
You need to begin with a new dog and have the tricks ready....
[Updated on: Tue, 24 October 2006 18:24]
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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