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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I don't edit. I don't do it well. Others are far better than I am. I have just had a story presented to me that has promise, but it is set in a British Public School in 1970 and is an awesomely brave attempt at scene setting by a non Brit.
The problem for me is that it is like Dick van Dyke's Mockney accent in Mary Poppins. The incorrectness detracts from a good story.
I have suggested to the author, and I believe he may take the suggestion up, that he ask for editing help through here.
He has a second tale in a similar setting that I was less interested in, but good editing may change my mind there.
He's an experienced author, and he is choosing to push the envelope. It;s gone pretty well, but it needs "local knowledge" to polish it.
Two of us come to mind at once, Cossie and Nigel, but others may like the idea of helping, too.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I might be able to help, depending on the length and scope of the story.
Does it depend very much on sixties/seventies historical detail? My knowledge is of a British public school from the late nineties, but a very traditional one, and as far as I can gather it was not unrecognisably dissimilar then from how it would have been in 1970. Most of the rest I have picked up from talking to ex-public schoolboys (plus to a lesser degree books, films etc.).
David
[Updated on: Wed, 01 November 2006 22:36] |
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Use "If..." as your yardstick. It may need 1970s detail with slang for gay people, such as queer, homo, poof, pouf?, nancy boy?. Never faggot.
I've asked the author to drop by. Will be his call, really.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I'd be willing to see if I could help.
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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Interesting how those words change. I'm fully aware of the pejorative meaning of the word "queer", but it doesn't sound unpleasant to me because of its common use in "queer theory" and its reclamation as a word simply meaning unstraight. I would call myself queer if the situation called for it.
Homo is/was still used at school, though as I remember only at prep school and never at public school. (The only pejorative gay-related word I remember at public school was "gay", and usually this was used unthinkingly to mean "lame".)
I've heard poof and poofter used, but only from older generations.
I do not think I have ever heard the word faggot or fag used in the gay sense in England. I'm sure some people use it from time to time, but luckily I've not come into contact with them. I always thought of a fag as a junior boy who did work for a senior boy (though this system did not survive at my school except in a very tame sense, and by another name). Faggots we threw on the fire.
Was there still fagging in 1970, Timmy? And at how many schools?
Nancy boy sounds peculiarly antiquated. Not, to me, pejorative at all.
David
[Updated on: Wed, 01 November 2006 23:03] |
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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In 1970, as a prefect, I had a personal fag whom I paid for the few tasks he had to do. He had the most gorgeous brown eyes and flirted a little. General duties were to make coffee and toast in breaks, run general errands, and clean corps kit if one was in the corps.
Those who were not personal fags had tasks including clearing dishes and getting food for meals, sweeping and dustingthe houseroom and boxroom (changing room), getting the morning papers and the mandatory crate of 1/3 of a pint milk botles (pre Thatcher, Milk Snatcher abolition)
Fagging died out over the next 10 to 15 years, school by school.
"Queer" said with a sneer, is an evil epithet. "Nancy boy" was around still, but less in use. "Gay" was only recently invented and was not yet in common use. Poof, but never poofter, though Monty Python introduced it from their concept of Australia. We were "bent" as well, of course. And sometimes "ponces".
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I had no idea that ponce was gay-related. The only person I have known who ever used it frequently was my female French teacher; from the way she used it, I deduced that it meant someone who was pretentious and flounced around a bit. I never made the connection to gay, because I never made the connection between camp and gay. To be honest, I still don't -- for me, being gay is no different from being straight except in sexual preference.
David
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Hmmm - I was 15 in 1970 (my O-level year), and "a queer" was just about the worst thing one could call someone (as far as I remember, it was nearly always a noun, not an adjective). Much worse than calling someone a "homo". And "nancy boy" was pretty obsolete as a term of abuse ... in fact, apart from my father calling me a nancy boy rather frequently, I don't think I heard it elsewhere apart from a selfconsciously joking usage.
I quite deliberately reclaimed the use of the word "queer" to describe myself in the mid-to-late 1990s, and was definitely influenced by the emergence of "queer theory" and "queer studies" in an academic context at this time.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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... who has direct experience of a public school, whereas I am a big, tough ex-Grammar School boy! But, as a matter of principle, I'd always be happy to edit if editing is required. In fact, so long as the basic plot justifies the effort, I'd happily edit in depth.
My recollections of the 1890s are particularly vivid!
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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My God! You actually knew Tom Brown!
The plot is worth it.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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... I not only knew him, I had regular sex with him!
If there's any way I can help you or this site, I'd be honoured to do so.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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If he was played by Alex Pettyfer, Cossie, as he was in the last TV production, I wouldn't have minded having sex with him either.
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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... but 1890s!? My god, you are even older than I thought, cossie!
Who is Tom Brown and what does he have to do with anything. That reference is totally above my head, even after Wikipedia! Something to do with "Tom Brown's Schooldays" perhaps, but I still can't see how Timmy got that out of Cossie's post....
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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Thomas Hughes' novel 'Tom Brown's Schooldays' is the archetypical British school story, and is so well known (in England, at least) that any mention of the name 'Tom Brown' calls it to mind. Timmy was actually taking something of a liberty, because the story is set in the 1830s rather than the 1890s, but - as I've indicated - the name alone was sufficient to bring Timmy's comment into context.
Not sure why you're surprised by my vivid recollections of the 1890s; I admitted in another recent thread to being a vampire, last re-born in 1044! I guess I've just got a well-honed sense of the ridiculous!
Since I'm here, I can't resist the temptation to share some Tom Brown trivia! Dr. Arnold, the benevolent headmaster in the novel, was a real person and was headmaster of Rugby School throughout the 1830s. He was an energetic innovator, and had a significant impact upon the future development of British education. The bully Flashman became the subject of a series of successful novels by the 20th-century British author George McDonald Fraser; several characters from 'Tom Brown's Schooldays' appear in the novels - even Tom himself! George McDonald Fraser also wrote 'The Steel Bonnets', a respected history of life on the Scottish Borders before the union of the Crowns; it features several of my ancestors - at least, they WOULD have been my ancestors if I hadn't been re-born several centuries earlier! Oh, and Rugby School was the birthplace of Rugby Football!
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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