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tim
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Really getting into it |
Location: UK, West of London in Ber...
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 842
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This is worth its own thread.
What child feeling unjustly punished twice and say "Dad I need your help. I think I am gay. I need someone to talk to."?
It is a matter of trust.
The child who comes home from school having been punished, fearing a further punishment is not the child who feels he can trust his parents.
And so we give rise to another statistic, like me, the boy who could not tell his parents for fear of freakish therapies. Oh yes, I got punished twice too.
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trevor
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Really getting into it |
Registered: November 2002
Messages: 732
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I agree with what you've written here, and this is why I always give my kids several chances to fess up to their wrongdoings and am more severe about lying and denying than the actual, usually minor transgression.
I do think parents have a conflicting role as the punisher (assuming no legal action) and the confidant. I guess that's why my need to befriend my nephew - I think we all need someone to honestly talk to about ourselves, even the parts we are ashamed of or know others will punish us for one way or another - someone who will unconditionally support us as an imperfect individual. I try to keep showing my kids that they can come to me to talk about anything, and show extra compassion and understanding when they have committed a "crime" and admit it.
But, although the teenager in me can see why you might THINK "Why did you get caught?" regarding a mostly harmless prank, I also think that if we SAY this to our kids, it is condoning their actions. Granted I was essentially a saint in my actions as a kid - well, still am, I suppose - so I'm sure mileage may vary.
Oh, another thought - your son may now be at the point where you have become mostly "peers" and your instilling his values is mostly complete already - I think you said he was mature for his age? I wish I could get to THAT point with my father.
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e
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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Also see my last post in the other thread. Trust comes from many things. One of them is that a parent demonstrates that they care enough to be able to exercise consistent discpline of their children. When children see that their parents do care about their behavior they learn to trust their parent. It is not necessarily whether a parent metes out a "second punishment" but how that punishment is delivered that will effect a child's trust in their parents.
I was also punished twice when I got into trouble at school, especially as a younger child. First by the school, then by my parents. I didn't like it, but it did not effect the trust I had in my parents. THAT was effected as I grew older and the punishments became more abusive and less effective. My mother began to punish the same offense over and over. She would get angry at one of us, but yell at all of us. She would bring up everything we had ever done throughout our lives and berate us about it. Her tirades could last a few hours or a few days. She began to punish from anger and instead of punishing the offense, she punished the child. The support, the teaching of right from wrong was missing. There was no "I love you, but I can't accept this behavior" like there had been in my younger years. My father ignored it. He didn't want to be a target any more than we did. That is what destroyed the trust I had in my parents. That is why I began to fear talking to them rather than being able to confide in them.
Think good thoughts,
e
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tim
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Really getting into it |
Location: UK, West of London in Ber...
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 842
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...they are in the same fruit bowl. Take the theme forward to raise happy, well adjusted and pleasantly naughty children who trust you.
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tim - the canuck
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Getting started |
Location: Canada
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 14
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Why brow beat the child with a secondary punishment when one will do - all it will do is build up resentment and lack of trust with your child.
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I believe it is not the school's job to disciplin a child, especially not for matters that happen outside school hours or school grounds. That should fall within the domains of the parents, or possibly, society if a crime has been committed.
So double punishment would not happen in my world. 
-Lenny
"But he that hath the steerage of my course,
direct my sail."
-William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Act One, Scene IV
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tim
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Really getting into it |
Location: UK, West of London in Ber...
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 842
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The sentiment is right, though. An double pnishment does not happen in my world either. I'll explain the school system to you offline.
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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>>>little giggle inserted here<<<
Pleasantly naughty. Yep, I like that,
especially the .......'who trust you'
part. Kids need to trust the grownups
in charge of their lives.
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I do feel that the trust potion is obviously the most important thing to cultivate in ANY human relationship. Parent to child is the most important in that, the fact that the kid comes to the father like this show that the trust has already been earned. A great sign that the father will listen first. This sounds like the begining of a good ending.
On the other hand, clear boundries will show the kid that punishment in school does not always have to mean punishment at home too, unless the boundry was crossed. I guess the confusing part for me is why the punishment at school in the fisrt place? Not sure a feeling is worthy of punishment.
Kevin
"Be excellent to each other, and, party on dudes"!
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Darren
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Likes it here |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 190
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A few have remarked on the one crime=one punishment. I disagree with this in a parental sence. I think parents (as ultimate gardians) have the right to judge the "fairness" of the punishment. In this case, the act of vandalism was not that serious and the pushishment doled out was to me sufficient. However, in other cases parents may not be satisfied with the school's sentence and more may be required given the seriousness of the act. Part of the punishment may also be to try and keep the child out of further trouble.
As for trust, this is something that is built with time and fairness. Raising a child is not like confession. Tell me your sins, say 10 hail Mary's and you are off the hook. Kids must realize that if they commited a bad act, there is a punishment that will come along with that. Kids will trust their parents if they are fair and have gained their kids respect. I think most of us are critical of our parents deliverance of punishment when it did not same fair, as opposed to being delivered once or twice.
Parents that think that their kids will talk to them "all the time" are living in a dream world. It is quite simple, if there is no chance of being caught, the child will not talk. If a kid does not have to worry about punishment from his/her parents, then there is a lack of disciplen in the family.
Anyway, my two cents worth...
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unfortunately, not very well. The school has an obligation to enforce their rules. The parents have an obligation to enforce their owns rules and rear the child. Sometimes they coincide, sometimes they don't. Sometimes one punishment is sufficient, other times not. It all depends on the infraction AND the circumstances. And sometimes the two clash, as has been demonstrated many times by the so-called "zero tolerance" rules now so popular.
Children will not confide in their parents everything that is going on, just as they wouldn't to their friends (except maybe best friend). They will tell their parents what they think the parents want to hear or what will get them in the least amount of trouble. There are very, very few George Washingtons out there. But the idea of keeping that avenue open, to where the child feels they will be treated fairly, or at least without anger, is what will build trust. And the older they get, the harder it is to maintain that sense of trust, if only because they are growing into independant beings desiring to make their own decisions.
IMHO
Hugs, Charlie
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Hear Hear Tim - 
That's what I have been trying to say.. 
