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... if there is a significant risk to one's hearing when one is in a club or bar where the music is so loud it is borderline painful? Or does it have to be properly painful to be dangerous? And/or do you have to be exposed to it for days or weeks or months on end?
If there is a risk, then why would any DJ wish to hamper his own appreciation of the music he plays by playing it so loudly? (This, of course, assumes that DJs actually like music, rather than just making a loud primitive noise.)
In my own experience, the clarity of the sound is much better than volume, anyway. Sounds tend to distort at loud volumes, even on very large speakers.
David
(My third off-topic thread in 24 hours. Sorry!)
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Deeej wrote:
> ... if there is a significant risk to one's hearing when one is in a club or bar where the music is so loud it is borderline painful? Or does it have to be properly painful to be dangerous? And/or do you have to be exposed to it for days or weeks or months on end?
Yes there is.......
>
> If there is a risk, then why would any DJ wish to hamper his own appreciation of the music he plays by playing it so loudly? (This, of course, assumes that DJs actually like music, rather than just making a loud primitive noise.)
For the money.......
>
> In my own experience, the clarity of the sound is much better than volume, anyway. Sounds tend to distort at loud volumes, even on very large speakers.
If it bothers you than don't go to clubs.....
>
> David
>
> (My third off-topic thread in 24 hours. Sorry!)
What is an off topic thread?
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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When I say loud, I mean "loud enough that it makes it impossible to hear anyone without shouting". When I say painful, I mean "uncomfortable". I don't mean "this is obviously going to destroy my hearing for the rest of my life", though it's enough to make one wonder.
Marc said,
>If it bothers you than don't go to clubs.....
I practically never go to clubs. But I do try to go to the minimum of social occasions, and sometimes that means going somewhere someone else has chosen.
I also find that cinemas (especially empty cinemas) and theatres (where there is amplification or lots of pre-recorded sound) are often painfully loud. Yet presumably they are restricted by law from being so loud as to be dangerous to the audience's hearing? (I'm sure NW knows the answer to this!)
Maybe my hearing is just more sensitive than everyone else's. In that case it's apparently something of a handicap.
David
[Updated on: Mon, 22 January 2007 14:47] |
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Deeej wrote:
> ... if there is a significant risk to one's hearing when one is in a club or bar where the music is so loud it is borderline painful? Or does it have to be properly painful to be dangerous? And/or do you have to be exposed to it for days or weeks or months on end?
There is a serious risk, and my own hearing has been damaged in this way. Both peak and average noise levels are important.
In the UK, employees are protected by law from excessive exposure, but those who voluntarily resort to known noisy environments (ie audiences) are not. New (lower) noise at work thresholds were introduced last year (Control of Noise at Work Regulations 2005 (CNAWR)) , but the entertainment industry is exempt until 2008.
The levels are:
Lower Exposure Action Value (LEAV) – daily exposure of 80 dB(A) – peak sound pressure of 135dB
Upper Exposure Action Value (UEAV) – daily exposure of 85 dB(A) – peak sound pressure of 137dB
Health surveillance must be provided where a risk assessment indicates that an employees health is at risk due to noise exposure (exposures at or above 85 dB(A), or for persons identified as sensitive to noise between 80dB(A) and 85dB(A))
There is a new Exposure Limit Value (ELV) - no employee should have a daily, or weekly, noise exposure exceeding 87 dB(A) – peak sound pressure of 140dB, although use of hearing protection is admissible to ensure this level is not exceeded.
This is an employers obligation that most take very seriously - even working as a volunteer steward on Pride for the past couple of years I've been issued with foam earplugs, although it's been left to individual discretion as to whether one is working in a "noisy" area (near bands, floats etc) and needs to wear them. Ear defenders are now common in machine shops and similar environments, of course.
I should point out that it is the pressure (change) at the eardrum that matters: headphones etc from some MP3 players, Walkmans etc are capable of delivering a potentially harmful sound level.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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Hmm. What do one do if one is socially obliged to go to something noisy? Take earplugs? I have never seen anyone else wearing them!
NW, for comparison purposes, I found even the NFT1 on Friday too loud at times -- do you reckon that there was a conceivable risk from that? The music on Saturday was about peak level of that for most of the evening.
David
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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The risk of damage is sign9ificant. The damage is not usually noticable at once. In 1998 I developed tinnitus in my left ear. The ENT (etc) people explained that it is likely that the damage was many years ago, probably at concerts, or maybe from shooting (wrong ear for that, but never mind). They said that the hearing has a threshold. Once it goes with age below that then things like tinnitus start. They explained that I had accelerated the deterioration process of age by whatever the causal event was those years ago.
I used to hold conversations in front of large PA stacks at gigs. I attribute the problems to those years between 1970 and 1973.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Noise reducing earplus are avalable and yes, you should take them. If peer pressure woudl not make you cut your skin with a knife it should not make you damage your hearing.
Now I wish I could get that message through to my Black Metal playing, Gig attendimg son.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Deeej wrote:
> Hmm. What do one do if one is socially obliged to go to something noisy? Take earplugs? I have never seen anyone else wearing them!
Before accepting the invitation, one asks if there is a chillout room! Or, if it's a noisy party at someones home, one retreats to the kitchen to chat. If it's an open-plan flat, I have no idea ... none of my friends believe in open-plan living!
>
> NW, for comparison purposes, I found even the NFT1 on Friday too loud at times -- do you reckon that there was a conceivable risk from that? The music on Saturday was about peak level of that for most of the evening.
I don't think you'll have adverse effects. I wouldn't expect to be exposed to the level of the peak of film sound for more than a few minutes, the level of "loud passages" for more than three or four hours, but it's a question of averages as much as peak levels. A lot depends on the equipment used and the sound source (mp3's have a very compressed dynamic range compared to vinyl, for example.) The odd party where conversation is difficult but not completely impossible is not going to have noticeable adverse effects.
Like Timmy, I spent a lot of time on front of the speakers at gigs in the 1970s and early 80s. On occasions, I was completely deaf and had severe tinnitus after such gigs. That undoubtedly contributed to my present poor hearing - but I'm far from completely deaf even after such a history.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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There's always something to worry about, isn't there?
On the other hand, it might just be me. 
David
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I have to say, I am very surprised that the entertainment industry is exempt for the moment. You would have thought that this was one area in which the 'nanny state' would have a pretty good justification for asking clubs to put up signs saying, "Warning: the sound levels in this club are very high and prolonged exposure may damage your hearing." It's not necessarily obvious to the random punter.
If they don't, surely the clubs are asking (in our increasingly litigious society) for someone to sue them?
Nigel, no rude comments, please!
David
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Give Precott a chance. He has to test your bath water first!
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I think that'd be a pretty frivolous lawsuit and wouldn't go very far, it is your choice to be in a club with a banging system and if you are concerned about your hearing why would you attend.
But I see your interest in hearing damage. I've been a DJ for 3 years and I play electronic music for "rave" type atmospheres, which promoters/ soundguys usually crank the system louder than normal, and I have hearing problems in my left ear were treble or highs will make my ear distort and cause slight discomfort.
Time is lifes currency, spend it well.
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