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jack
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Likes it here |
Location: England
Registered: September 2006
Messages: 304
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has anyone heard from Brian, is he now o.k. after his accident, he does not seem to post now.
life is to enjoy.
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jack
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Likes it here |
Location: England
Registered: September 2006
Messages: 304
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em strange.
life is to enjoy.
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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Brian had an on-line relationship with a teenage Brit, whom I shall call Sam, because that isn't his name.
Sam had a pic of Brian, but he found the same pic on a gay-slanted (but perfectly legal) boy sports site. They had a falling-out over the question of whether the pic was really Brian.
Since then, Brian has disappeared from both radar and gaydar; I don't think he's likely to return.
Please don't ask me for more information; there's nothing more I can tell you.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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jack
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Likes it here |
Location: England
Registered: September 2006
Messages: 304
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Thanks for the info, i was begining to think people were blanking me.
I feel sure life will pan out o.k. for Brian.
life is to enjoy.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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OK, you used a picture that was not you. You may even have used a life story that differs from your own. You aren't the first to make yourself more glamorous or interesting and you won't be the last.
I just want you to know that the perosnality you show is fine, and I think that comes from deep inside you. I don;t much care what age, gender or circumstances you find yourself in. You came here because you needed to. If that need has expired, ok, but if not, why not find a way of coming back?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Thanks for that Timmy! I personally think Brian gave this place much.
People will tell you where they've gone
They'll tell you where to go
But till you get there yourself you never really know
Where some have found their paradise
Other's just come to harm
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I am never concerned with what people give. It is what they need and what they take with them that's important to me. We have enough to give for all who need it, even those of us who need things ourselves.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Aussie
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Really getting into it |
Registered: August 2006
Messages: 475
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I have to admit I dont understand the logic here. Maybe I am missing something but to me the giving and the taking are a 2 way street. Without people here giving of themselves, their thoughts and ideas there is not much for those who need help to take with them.
I for one would be happy to see Brian return.
Aussie
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Ah, giving and taking. There is no logic, that is why. People like Brian give and take, both in good measure. They brighten our day and I hope we brighten theirs.
Others, those who simply pass by, sometimes post. They do not always give, but they take. That's fine, because we have enough giving to make sure there is never a debt. Perhaps they heal a little. Perhaps their giving is somewhere else. We may give to them freely, knowing that, somewhere, the supposed debt is paid.
That is what I mean.
And, yes, I wish he had not gone. I hope he finds a way of coming back. I hope the overall good we did for Brian outweighs the challenges of having been someone else. It is not usually for bad reasons that people masquerade.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy wrote:
> And, yes, I wish he had not gone. I hope he finds a way of coming back. I hope the overall good we did for Brian outweighs the challenges of having been someone else. It is not usually for bad reasons that people masquerade.
I totally agree with all of that, and if Brian does ever browse this forum again I would hope that he knows that there are people here who wish him well.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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Yet for those that have been hurt by a mask, the "damage" can be long-term.
I'm not sure you remember an email I sent you, timmy. But I knew he didn't post like a teenager. Reminded me a little too much of someone. I hope no-one was hurt, I didn't want to make a big deal out of my intuition, but I just hope no-one was hurt.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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We simply have to realise that, online, people are able to act as they wish to be or as they need to be. Even if we fall deeply in love with the online person we have to understand that it is th eonline peorsn we have fallen for and that the real person may differ in important ways from the online person.
In such a masquerade where the person is a decent individual the harm is unintentional, and deeply regretted. Unwinding that masquerade is very hard for all concerned.
I do not encourage a masquerade, but I recognice the need for it in many cases.
We can only know of someone what they wish us to know and allow us to know.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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I have no problems with people creating online personas. But those personas should have boundaries. If those personas are purely restricted to forum-based communication, or even platonic chat-based communication then no-one gets hurt. People should think about the consequences of their actions and how it can affect others. I don't mind being lied to when I have no emotional investment. But when people become more than friends, or even more than acquaintances then the one being lied to has become vulnerable.
No-one has a right to hurt other people like that, regardless of how much they feel they need to establish a different persona to their real life one. When people are honest about themselves when online they expect others to be the same, honest people should not have to be constantly on guard against the dishonest.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I think you'll find that Brian hurt no-one.
You can't prescribe rules for people. We interact with emotions and ordinary boundaries become blurred. The thing si to ensure that true invovement starts only at a physical meeting
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Timmy said,
>I think you'll find that Brian hurt no-one.
Timmy, this is not the place for me to talk about it, but I would like to register for the purposes of this thread that I strongly disagree. It is very easy to forget the rules you have mentioned, or forget them until it's too late, and a person who posts messages that encourage that -- while in themselves entirely sensible, friendly, rational, unhurtful -- in the full knowledge that they are deceiving someone else is setting up circumstances whereby, when the truth comes out, the only possible result is hurt. In the best circumstances that hurt is only mild disappointment, but it can also be distress, and to a certain extent it is impossible to judge its magnitude until it has happened.
I need to talk to you about this. Will you be on MSN this evening (or phone), please?
David
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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And just how do you measure hurt?
I have to disagree.....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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Timmy wrote:
The thing is to ensure that true invovement starts only at a physical meeting
I learnt that through bitter experience. Just wish no-one else had to learn it the way I did.
The rules really can't be hard and fast. But personally I won't be involved with anyone that I believe is just an online persona rather than a real person. I will warn others about the liar if I think it'll stop them being hurt. A lie is a lie, it is never right although it can be justified.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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Hurt is hurt, regardless of the magnitude. It is selfish to hurt others even in the smallest degree, even if it gives oneself a world of comfort/ relief. But as you say, how do you even measure hurt?
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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Do you disagree with me or Timmy, Marc?
Hurt is entirely subjective, of course. But there is nevertheless a strong probability that if you fabricate personal details and events (especially life-threatening events) and future plans (like agreeing to meet someone one day if you know at the time it cannot possibly ever happen) you will hurt someone.
I do not mind if someone says -- in as many words, or maybe even just implies -- "I'm not in position to reveal any personal details at this time, so the persona I offer on here is not quite real". Timmy has said we should assume that anyway, and of course he is right. But I do not think, except where there is such a disclaimer, that he should regard it as acceptable behaviour. A Place of Safety has to work both ways -- not just offering anonymity and safety to people in a difficult personal position, but to go at least a little way to protect the people who are likely to be harmed if those people take it too far.
It is perfectly possible for people to become respected members of this board without giving out virtually any real-life details. There are several people like that here already. In some cases I now know who they are, but I still regarded them as friends before I did, and it would not have mattered a jot to me if they had turned out to be young or old, male or female, gay or straight, from any country or religious denomination -- provided they had always been truthful in the little they had told me in the past.
David
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I disagree with you....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I think this moralising from all those who are moralising is wonderfully out of place. You have no idea, any of you, what was on Brian's mind. Only Brian has. The probability is that we will never know.
What is wrong with allowing someone who has left us but is probably reading this place to feel comfort? Are those who are moralising over hurt and such like so particularly special that you have no need to be charitable? None of you knew Brian. The only person who truly did was Cossie, though some came closer than others.
I never knew him properly, but I can say quite clearly that he was welcome here as Brian and is welcome here in whatever future role he needs to adopt. I knew he was not as he seemed, though I had no idea, as I still do not, who or what his real persona is This is a place for anonymity as well as allowing people to learn who you are.
Some years ago a young man in another forum represented himself as a couple of years younger than his true age. He purported to be 17 instead of 19. When he came out he was pilloried "because he had lied". To me that is idiocy. We have to get over ourselves and move on. It's not so hard to do. It requires a simple decision to do it.
Moralising in this thread says far more about those who moralise than those moralised about. Take a step back and look at what you are doing.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Deeej wrote:
> I do not mind if someone says -- in as many words, or maybe even just implies -- "I'm not in position to reveal any personal details at this time, so the persona I offer on here is not quite real". Timmy has said we should assume that anyway, and of course he is right. But I do not think, except where there is such a disclaimer, that he should regard it as acceptable behaviour. A Place of Safety has to work both ways -- not just offering anonymity and safety to people in a difficult personal position, but to go at least a little way to protect the people who are likely to be harmed if those people take it too far.
but why should they?
"Hi, my name is fred. I am not really fred, but I look like fred. One day I may tell you who I am, but right now I want to be a 12 year old boy. In reality, when you get to know me, you will find that I am 300lbs, 7 feet tall, and a female mud wrestler named janine"
I am adamant that anyone is welcome here, even heavily disguised. We have no idea why they need their disguise, but they need it. I have no intention of doing more than noticing when things do not ring wholly true.
We "old hands" are the people here who need to be adult about this. We must accept newcomers at face value while they need us to. How much better to enable someone to say "Guys, I was not truthful with you. I hope you will accept that I, fred, am really janine" that to pillory them and run them out of town.
[Updated on: Sun, 18 February 2007 15:41]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Saben wrote:
>....I will warn others about the liar if I think it'll stop them being hurt. A lie is a lie, it is never right although it can be justified.
This is a hostile stance. I believe that you should consider it carefully and vary it substantially. Walk a mile in that person's moccassins before judging them.
Or should we just put a burning cross outside their home because they appear to be black?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Hello everybody... I'm 'Sam' (for some reason.)
Thank you for all who took an interest in my so called ON:LINE relationship with 'Brian' and all the babble about hurting people and so on.
Let me set the story straight... (As 'Sam' of course)
I was foolish enough to try and find some sort of internet relationship thing. and I was surprised with 'Brian' because he appeared to be totally different from other jerks you find in chatrooms. We seemed (note my usage of that word) to have a lot in common. It was not meant to be.
The picture is nothing more than irrelavant... the fact is that 'Brian' lied to me. I let him see the parts of myself that no one ever sees. We talked about the future, our dreams and most of all our feelings. These were all lies. I suppose I should be the one that is hurt... I gave nothing but truth to him.
Part of me still refuses to believe that the on:line personality of 'Brian' is all but lies, fantasy and sizeable helpings of BS. (You all know what BS means, don't you?) he left a mark on me, he took away some of the lonliness.
I miss 'talking' to him. But I HAVE to stop 'talking' about him as if he were real.
He lied about something so bloody trivial (and it didn't anything when it was 'truth') Lies bring on the question of further lies, you begin to search for cracks in the whole foundation of any relationship. and for someone like me who already questions the whole notion of trust it tears you apart.
I wish 'Brian Aiden Whittiker' were real.
David Logan Armstrong... Not so much SAM. 
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I don't think we will be able to meet on this point on the board. Timmy, I would appreciate an opportunity to talk to you about it in person when we meet in a few days. My perspective on the issue, I think, is principally an off-board one, so it doesn't belong here.
I can see the validity of your point of view but I do not agree with it. I am certainly not trying to pillory or run anyone out of town. I am simply trying to understand, and I find it difficult to do that at the moment, as I have virtually no data.
David
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I wish he were real too, david.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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That doesnt float either...
Each and every issue is principally an off board issue..... at least until someone posts it....
If issues were placed here due to some predestined plan than I would like to know what it is?
After all..... when it comes to who people are, who is David? How do we know you are who you say you are?
The answer is that you are who you are because you say who you are.
We have no validation of that knowledge which you choose to make us aware.
We have to TRUST YOU.... and that is a leap of faith.... tha same leap each of us has to take for every one we meet here.
It is just that simple.
Logical.... not by a long shot.... but faith was never built on logic.
The more you try to apply logic to this situation the less you will come to understand it.
[Updated on: Sun, 18 February 2007 19:56]
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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For different reasons, we all allow different amounts of validation of our real-world identity to be available to other users of the board. I am right at one extreme, in that the existence of a real-world identity corresponding to the one I claim can be checked in a matter of minutes - I prefer it that way. Whether I am in fact that person could be established fairly easily, as well. Of course, being real is no guarantee of trustworthiness in other respects (and in some senses, presenting a masquerade to others does not necessarily mean that a person is untrustworthy in all respects, either).
Others have their own reasons for not wishing to share their real-world identities so widely, and I respect that. But we take different leaps of faith with different regular posters here - some we may have met in real life, or we have met someone who has met another 'regular'. Or we feel that one poster's claimed story is internally inconsistent and anothers is self-consistent. Or we may have some contact with another regular poster on another site or elsewhere.
We each take different leaps of faith with different people (here and elsewhere - there are perils in the real world as well). Some caution is always a good idea ...
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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As a matter of fact, Marc, those members of the board whom I know in real life, or have corresponded with extensively, all know who I am. It's also very easy for a person who doesn't know me to check out the web site in my profile, query a few other sites or people or organisations, and establish that I do exist. This is important to me, because I don't want other people to feel I am deceiving them. While I don't expect that everyone else will give me the same level of information about themselves, I do hope that they will trust me insofar as not to feed me deliberate untruths.
Incidentally, I know you are real and broadly as described because Timmy has told me you are, and I trust him. I am not sure if you have asked him about me, or even if you trust him, but you are welcome to if you wish.
Brian was the one person from the board with whom I have corresponded reasonably regularly with whom I never did establish a 'web of trust', and recent events have only gone to show me how much I needed one. Perhaps it is a reflection of the almost autistic rationality of my psyche, and not a good thing at all, but I find it almost impossible to lie to anyone else and I find it appalling when other people do to me.
David
[Updated on: Sun, 18 February 2007 21:01] |
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David,
I viewed Brian as a friend. I've very little idea, except what's been posted here, what has happened since I last received an email from him so I've been somewhat in the dark throughout this whole affair.
I have to say I feel embarrassed about having participated in a discussion partly about your life. I do hope, though, that this affair hasn't taken away your faith in people online. You're very welcome to post here if you want.
Best wishes,
David
[Updated on: Sun, 18 February 2007 21:19] |
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I was only saying to Descartes the other day "I post, therefore I am." He was then asked if he wanted another cup of coffee and replied "I think not," then simply disappeared into thin air…
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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I am not criticising people that come here to post only. Nor even people that pretend to be younger in order to "cyber" other people. Everyone wants to feel wanted. Establishing personas is something that some people do need to do.
I have been lied to twice. I have "fallen" for two different online personas, neither of which was real. One I could forgive, the other I could not. One tried to push me away, tried not to encourage me, let me know that I was setting myself up to be hurt, even though they could not tell me the truth.
The other led me on, made me feel like something could happen. And let it drag on for much longer. The first I felt for when the truth came out and forgave- things made more sense. The second I felt betrayed by and still 2 years later cannot forgive, it has only raised more questions.
If adopting an online persona there is a right and a wrong way to do it.
I've been hurt twice. I was stupid and naive. I gave all of myself, in total honesty and was betrayed twice. Whether it's right or wrong for me to throw stones, I've been hurt too much on this front to excuse it.
LEADING PEOPLE ON FOR YOUR OWN PERSONAL FUCKED-UP-NESS IS NOT RIGHT. You might have issues, fine, resolve them in a way that doesn't fuck up other people.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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Of course I'm hostile. Of course.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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You might still be able to maintain a friendship with "Brian" or you might not. You opened up your heart and you were hurt badly. You trusted and gave of yourself and were let down. I had the same thing happen to me twice. I was able to forgive the first and I was able to continue trusting people online, most of who seemed quite nice. Then I was betrayed again, by someone that had shared my outrage at the first person's lies.
"Brian" helped you, he gave you something you needed when you needed it. He probably is a kind soul with a lot to give. The personality of "Brian" probably remains but online, often we don't see vices that would become apparent in real life. We seem the positives of someone's personality and not the negatives. Things can become idealised. Then when we realise we've been betrayed the rose-coloured glasses come off.
Even if "Brian" is still a good person, how could he hurt you like that? How could he let it go on? Obviously he's not the person you loved, the person you loved wasn't capable of hurting you like that.
If it had only been friendships, cyber, I wouldn't be so against it. But when someone invests emotionally and is led on, rather than discouraged...
I don't condemn "Brian", I don't feel he's not welcome here. But I do condemn his actions. They are too close to home for me.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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That is the problem. The "of course" part. There is no "of course" about this. Look at vegetables: some green vegetables taste horrible, but others are delicious. Even the same one, cooked differently, goes from delicious to horrible very fast.
The thing you need to take from this is that you and your own situation are unique, as are others in theirs. One size does not fit all.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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I'm just going on what I know about the situation, which is primarily what Cossie, and Not-Sam have posted.
Not-Sam doesn't sound like he's glad that he has been able to help "Brian" work through his issues. He sounds hurt.
Personally I don't give a shit about "Brian" either way, I never knew him well enough. But it definitely seems to be the same kind of horrible tasting green vegetable that I've experienced, myself. People here get passionate and are happy to condemn the actions of terrorists, paedophiles and child abusers; I get passionate and condemn the actions of liars that abuse trust and let other people get hurt.
If "Brian" was the sweet, caring soul everyone thought he was, then he wouldn't have let it go on long enough that Not-Sam would have been hurt as much as he seems to have been.
I'm just going on what I've read and what I've experienced. I've already said that there are situations where people lying online has had no major consequences beyond broken trust between friends. I've had lots of people lie to me online that are just friends, whether it be about their age or location. But they've been just friends, they haven't led me to believe that it's been anything more than that. It hasn't been an all encompasing lie. Finding out the truth might have annoyed me, but only once has it made me doubt the personality and intentions of the person. As I said in another post, the personality of the real person may have been shining through, but even that may have been an act, because the person I knew and fell for wouldn't have let me get hurt like that.
Maybe I'm still angry at the person that betrayed me and taking it out on "Brian". In fact there's no maybe about it. I started off purely saying that what "Brian" did was wrong, though and I was called self-righteous and told that I have no right to judge.
That is like saying that a rape victim has no right to judge rapists, simply because the situation is different, the victim may just have backed out at the last minute, but the rapist continued; really they are a good person, things just got a little out of control. They regret it and never meant any harm, the situation just got out of control and it'll never happen again. Are rapists welcome here? I'd never claim they are not. Even those that commit crimes need people to help them work through it. Would the reception be warm? I doubt it.
Whatever, stupid analogy that isn't even related. Breach of trust and rape are pretty different, I realise that. But I hope you can see what I'm getting at. I never said "Brian" isn't welcome, just that the actions of liars are intolerable when it is harmful. And it is harm, not hurt. Harm through neglegence, selfishness and lack of compassion to the person you are hurting. I'd hardly call it "accidental" hurt, even though it is short of deliberate.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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You said "Personally I don't give a shit about "Brian" either way".
Well, Saben, I expect others have read that and will make judgements now about you, based on what they know about you.
Your tone is petulant, aggressive and unpleasant. I know you have issues, but this is not the way to deal with them. Read the top of the board. Read the parts about behaviour. And, frankly, get over it.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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Way to quote a single line in isolation and take it out of context.
It's fine to lie to people to deal with one's issues but not to yell? Okay, next time I'm feeling down I'll just go tell some cute little teen online that I'm actually a gorgeous teen boy myself and that I want to meet him because I love him so much and he means the world to me. I'll do that for months and months and then he'll find out it's a lie. But it's okay, because I'll be able to come back here and have support and reassurance that I did nothing wrong, because really I was trying to work through my own issues and I showed a pleasant personality through the whole thing. Because that's better than typing in caps and being aggressive. Less people get hurt that way.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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No Message Body
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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You know, you really do need to get a grip on this. If you are basing your reaction on the same data that the rest of us have then you have certainly read into it a load of very different stuff. Read the head of the board, please. Then read it again.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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